Blake Snell is on the market

[Angel Oracle]

5 hours ago, Revad said:

I’m kind of a cashew guy myself

[Angel Oracle]

On the Lindor/McKenzie subject:

McKenzie’s career MiLB WHIP is just under 1.00.   Not many accomplish that.   Has solid control, mid 90s with rising action, solid slider, and developing curve and change.   Is very slender though at just 175 lbs for being 6-5.

How much would Lindor sign for to stay here upon FA?   It may well be too prohibitive to trade what it will take to get both guys.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[rafibomb]

 

[Inside Pitch]

12 hours ago, Blarg said:

@Inside Pitch

The Rays have been careful with Snell's arm since day one.  Yes, they were ahead of the game with the opener, but even their TV crew used to comment about the need to safeguard arms particularly given all the TJ issues they had.

Great pitcher, great size for a pitcher, but he's required some caution and real care to keep him on the mound.

[Inside Pitch]

12 hours ago, Taylor said:

Apparently he rarely goes 6 innings because of TB's strict policies for pitchers.

They limit times through the order, they also have tried to keep Snell on the mound because he's had multiple instances where his stuff has dropped off or he's had barking body parts.

Personally the bigger issue for me is the cost it would take to acquire him.   Is it worth the player assets to trade for Snell, or are Ordorrizi, and Richards signings better use of assets?

Good luck making the better choose, Perry. 

[Docwaukee]

8 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

The Rays have been careful with Snell's arm since day one.  Yes, they were ahead of the game with the opener, but even their TV crew used to comment about the need to safeguard arms particularly given all the TJ issues they had.

Great pitcher, great size for a pitcher, but he's required some caution and real care to keep him on the mound.

could it be that they've been overly cautious with him?  taking him out of a game 7 of the WS when he was cruising tells me sometimes you can be too smart for your own good.  And now they're willing to trade him so the red flags are going up because of Tampa's reputation for being very savvy.  

There's gonna be risk.  big time.  Trade for him or not, you absolutely have to get it right.  One way or the other.  To have to decide on whether to pull the trigger or not on this type of deal is putting a first time GM in a really tough spot that I don't envy because it truly could be what makes or breaks this team for the next three years.  A truly defining move for him and his crew.  

If he does pull the trigger it actually sort of boxes him into a corner in some ways whereas if he doesn't he'll still have other options to make the team better.  

[Docwaukee]

10 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

They limit times through the order, they also have tried to keep Snell on the mound because he's had multiple instances where his stuff has dropped off or he's had barking body parts.

Personally the bigger issue for me is the cost it would take to acquire him.   Is it worth the player assets to trade for Snell, or are Ordorrizi, and Richards signings better use of assets?

Good luck making the better choose, Perry. 

That's the thing.  It's likely gonna cost at least one if not two of our biggest assets.  It kinda like he's really got one shot to make a trade like that considering what we'd have left after it.  

Either way, I think it's gonna tell us a fair amount about Minasian and what he thinks of the existing situation he's inherited.  

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

could it be that they've been overly cautious with him?  taking him out of a game 7 of the WS when he was cruising tells me sometimes you can be too smart for your own good.  And now they're willing to trade him so the red flags are going up because of Tampa's reputation for being very savvy.  

There's gonna be risk.  big time.  Trade for him or not, you absolutely have to get it right.  One way or the other.  To have to decide on whether to pull the trigger or not on this type of deal is putting a first time GM in a really tough spot that I don't envy because it truly could be what makes or breaks this team for the next three years.  A truly defining move for him and his crew.  

If he does pull the trigger it actually sort of boxes him into a corner in some ways whereas if he doesn't he'll still have other options to make the team better.  

I think they are being cautious, maybe overly so but with good reason.  He's been one of those guys that always has something going on.  It may just be a case of the Rays overstating things to get a competitive edge, not sure but they have shown a tendency to be more cautious with him compared to some of the other guys.  

With TB it can be hard to say because they have really been huge proponents of avoiding a third time through the order.  If you look at their pitcher logs you'll see lots of 5 IP, 2 or less ER games and then a few 5 IP 0 ER games.  Five innings two runs allowed isn't that impressive but if you mix in a few 0 ER games the overall numbers start looking a lot better. Snell is clearly capable of getting through the lineup more than twice but I do wonder if they aren't looking at the big picture with him and simply trying to keep him healthy for 162 games.  It really is hard to say given what Cash did in the WS.

But yeah, Snell always has some sort of ailing body part, so much so I have genuinely wondered if it wasn't some kind of gamesmanship as I hinted at previously.

[Inside Pitch]

17 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

That's the thing.  It's likely gonna cost at least one if not two of our biggest assets.  It kinda like he's really got one shot to make a trade like that considering what we'd have left after it.  

Either way, I think it's gonna tell us a fair amount about Minasian and what he thinks of the existing situation he's inherited.  

If you're TB you're asking for Chris Rodriguez as the second piece or you bring up his back issues to talk his value down into a third piece.  That's where they lose me.

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

If you're TB you're asking for Chris Rodriguez as the second piece or you bring up his back issues to talk his value down into a third piece.  That's where they lose me.

yep.  no way you get out of that trade without giving up one of Adell or Marsh and one of Rodriguez, Detmers or Kochanowicz.  Losing any one of those three pitchers in that deal is also where I hang up the phone.  But they're definitely gonna want a Snell replacement.  

[Docwaukee]

13 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I think they are being cautious, maybe overly so but with good reason.  He's been one of those guys that always has something going on.  It may just be a case of the Rays overstating things to get a competitive edge, not sure but that shown a tendency to be more cautious with him compared to some of the other guys.  

With TB it can be hard to say because they have really been huge proponents of avoiding a third time through the order.  If you look at their pitcher logs you'll see lots of 5 IP, 2 or less ER games and then a few 5 IP 0 ER games.  Five innings two runs allowed isn't that impressive but if you mix in a few 0 ER games the overall numbers start looking a lot better. Snell is clearly capable of getting through the lineup more than twice but I do wonder if they aren't looking at the big picture with him and simply trying to keep him healthy for 162 games.  It really is hard to say given what Cash did in the WS.

But yeah, Snell always has some sort of ailing body part, so much so I have genuinely wondered if it wasn't some kind of gamesmanship as I hinted at previously.

I think another big part of the equation is that they didn't need him for 60 innings in a shortened season considering how good their pen was.  Why stretch him out for another 10 innings after he could barely stay on the mound in 2019 when you have the best pen in baseball.  

So it may have been less about their concern for injury vs. just rolling out one of their 7 guys who could get the outs.  One of whom was John Curtiss btw.  A guy the halos had in their minor league system the previous year.  Dude posted a 1.8 era (3.35 FIP) in 25 IP.  

[mmc]

12 hours ago, rafibomb said:

 

This is something people need to keep  in mind when posting trade proposals that don’t even involve Marsh or Adell.  The Mariners (even though I personally don’t believe they should be trading for Snell, that’s irrelevant), have the reigning rookie of the year, and 2 elite OF prospects that are ranked higher than Marsh.  If people don’t want to give up Marsh or Adell, they might have to deal with not only not getting Snell, but facing him multiple times a year one our division rival.

[Chuck]

3 minutes ago, mmc said:

This is something people need to keep  in mind when posting trade proposals that don’t even involve Marsh or Adell.  The Mariners (even though I personally don’t believe they should be trading for Snell, that’s irrelevant), have the reigning rookie of the year, and 2 elite OF prospects that are ranked higher than Adell.  If people don’t want to give up Marsh or Adell, they might have to deal with not only not getting Snell, but facing him multiple times a year one our division rival.

Snell is from Seattle and fans up here have been talking about getting him via FA or trade for a while now. 

Personally, I hope they have to trade one of those three and more to get him. 

[Stradling]

14 minutes ago, mmc said:

This is something people need to keep  in mind when posting trade proposals that don’t even involve Marsh or Adell.  The Mariners (even though I personally don’t believe they should be trading for Snell, that’s irrelevant), have the reigning rookie of the year, and 2 elite OF prospects that are ranked higher than Adell.  If people don’t want to give up Marsh or Adell, they might have to deal with not only not getting Snell, but facing him multiple times a year one our division rival.

Are they both really ranked above Adell?  Adell was a top 5 prospect, now he isn't considered a prospect, I don't believe.  Those two guys are 9th and 12th according to MLB.com.  Not that it really matters, I was more asking because I'm trying to gauge just how good they are.  

[mmc]

8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Are they both really ranked above Adell?  Adell was a top 5 prospect, now he isn't considered a prospect, I don't believe.  Those two guys are 9th and 12th according to MLB.com.  Not that it really matters, I was more asking because I'm trying to gauge just how good they are.  

Oops, Marsh is who I meant

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, mmc said:

Oops, Marsh is who I meant

ok, got it.  Yea, they are both certainly ahead of Marsh.  Sorry for my confusion.  

[Dtwncbad]

Look if the Angel genuinely and sincerely believe that Adell should bring a better pitcher than Snell, that’s fine.

But then they have get all of this out of the hypothetical and actually land a better pitcher than Snell.

Decisions I can live with:

Trading Adell for Snell

Trading Adell for a pitcher better than Adell

Signing a Bauer and keeping Adell

Here’s what the Angels can’t do:

Not trade for Snell because he “wasn’t worth” Adell, then not land a better pitcher for Adell and also not sign Bauer.

The least defendable decision is to pass on all of these opportunities for one reason or another and end up with crappy pitching in 2021.

 

[PattyD22]

1 hour ago, mmc said:

This is something people need to keep  in mind when posting trade proposals that don’t even involve Marsh or Adell.  The Mariners (even though I personally don’t believe they should be trading for Snell, that’s irrelevant), have the reigning rookie of the year, and 2 elite OF prospects that are ranked higher than Marsh.  If people don’t want to give up Marsh or Adell, they might have to deal with not only not getting Snell, but facing him multiple times a year one our division rival.

There is only one person on this thread that thinks a deal for Snell wouldn’t involve top prospects.  Just one.

Edited November 25, 2020 by PattyD22

[Angel Oracle]

This cries out Dumbpoto pulling the trigger.  

Let this sink in.   Take away 2018, and he’s thrown 375 innings in 77 starts (under 5 innings/start).

I could see Snell eventually having to miss chunks of the season.

Like Chuck said, I hope the Rays squeeze at least two top prospects/players from the M’s. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Blarg]

18 hours ago, Taylor said:

What is with all these posters who don't have an avatar?

It's not nearly as bad as posters that change their screen name as often as their underwear. BTW, it's almost Thanksgiving, so... 

[Tank]

18 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

I'm not giving up Adell or Marsh for a pitcher who goes 5 inn. Barria had good 18 and 19 out of rotation to start year because of Cahill and Harvey signings. In a short season 2020 only 7 appearances with 5 starts but looked like Barria of 18. Adell be patience he is young and going to be a stud.

i know it's useless to suggest this, but you might want to look at his manager on that one. you might also want to look at his number of pitches and other important stats.

if all you're looking at is IP, you're missing the forest because the trees are in the way.

[Angels 1961]

7 minutes ago, Tank said:

i know it's useless to suggest this, but you might want to look at his manager on that one. you might also want to look at his number of pitches and other important stats.

if all you're looking at is IP, you're missing the forest because the trees are in the way.

 

[Angels 1961]

Just now, Angels 1961 said:

 

The trees are the forest, Snell second coming of Erik Bedard, It would take Adell to get him but I'm not trading Adell. Plenty of pitching out there. Adell to me just to valuable. Where did Joe Maddon first manage? 

[Tank]

does snell make this team better? if so, how much better and for how long?

i'd be willing to trade adell and rengifo (not seeing in him what others see), and another kid or two. I'd keep Marsh because I think he's going to be the better of our two highest prospects.

I'm old and I'm tired of waiting for this team to get back into the playoffs while Trout is in his prime. If Snell gets us closer to the promised land, call the Rays.

[Blarg]

Just now, Angels 1961 said:

The trees are the forest, Snell second coming of Erik Bedard, It would take Adell to get him but I'm not trading Adell. Plenty of pitching out there. Adell to me just to valuable. Where did Joe Maddon first manage? 

In the Angels minor leagues and a few games as interim manager in 1999.