The Official 2020-2021 Hot Stove Offseason Thread

[tdawg87]

6 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I still think Angels fans are having unwarranted visions of grandeur regarding their pitching acquisitions.

Blake Snell - Rays payroll isn't in trouble as of right now, and they nearly won the World Series. There's little incentive to cause then to sell right now unless they receive a package that's clearly an overpay that helps them right now AND in the future. You don't want to pay that.

Yu Darvish - The Cubs have not entered a rebuild and have publicly stated their intention to give it another go in 2021 before entering any sort of rebuild. They just got a new man in charge, and I doubt they want to reward his years of service by telling him to sell their talent for scraps. Darvish is available, but only if overpaid. Otherwise, wait until the trade deadline or next off-season.

Sony Gray - The Reds needed to shed payroll. They shed nearly 7 million in the Iglesias deal and have Bauer likely coming off the books. They don't need to trade Gray. They could, and maybe even should, but they've got some flexibility right now. 

Same with Marquez in Colorado.

I'm not saying the Angels won't get their ace via trade. I'm saying that you might not like the price and regret making that deal. 

And as for Bauer, he's been more of a 4.00 ERA pitcher throughout his career than an ace. But he's going to require ace money. I'm not saying the Angels won't sign Bauer, I'm saying that if they do, his salary may not match the results.

Agreed on all accounts.

I'm always the one to over estimate a trade proposal, simply because the trades we are fine with making aren't likely to satisfy the team we'd be trading with. See: Street, Simmons.

Snell and Gray will cost a lot. But it may end up being what we have to deal with.

Bauer will be overpayed, as one does. Unfortunately you have to overpay for pitching. So Minasian (and Arte) will need to choose between losing money and payroll space, or losing valuable prospects. Either way, we can't lose out again. I hate to say we need one of those three guys, but...

[Warfarin]

14 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Agreed on all accounts.

I'm always the one to over estimate a trade proposal, simply because the trades we are fine with making aren't likely to satisfy the team we'd be trading with. See: Street, Simmons.

Snell and Gray will cost a lot. But it may end up being what we have to deal with.

Bauer will be overpayed, as one does. Unfortunately you have to overpay for pitching. So Minasian (and Arte) will need to choose between losing money and payroll space, or losing valuable prospects. Either way, we can't lose out again. I hate to say we need one of those three guys, but...

This is why I'm actually a fan of the idea of pursuing someone like Quintana as one option to fill out our rotation.  He's coming off a down year, but he'll likely require a max of a 2 year commitment, or more likely just one year, and he'll be only 32 years old at the start of the season.  The best teams tend to find undervalued players who are coming off down years and help them re-discover their form.  Quintana has incentive to sign just a one-year deal to re-establish his value and re-enter free agency in a better offseason (i.e., not this offseason).

Instead of buying high on someone like Bauer, who is coming off a career season, or trading for someone who just had their best season, perhaps it is wise to invest in someone who has an otherwise fairly strong pedigree but just had one down year.

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

This is why I'm actually a fan of the idea of pursuing someone like Quintana as one option to fill out our rotation.  He's coming off a down year, but he'll likely require a max of a 2 year commitment, or more likely just one year, and he'll be only 32 years old at the start of the season.  The best teams tend to find undervalued players who are coming off down years and help them re-discover their form.  Quintana has incentive to sign just a one-year deal to re-establish his value and re-enter free agency in a better offseason (i.e., not this offseason).

Instead of buying high on someone like Bauer, who is coming off a career season, or trading for someone who just had their best season, perhaps it is wise to invest in someone who has an otherwise fairly strong pedigree but just had one down year.

That's a total Eppler move and it worked out with Bundy, but was a complete disaster with Teheran, Cahill, and Harvey.

If Minasian feels that's the best route to take, then I'll trust his judgement. But this team has avoided getting big name pitchers for what, 8 years now? That hasn't worked out. 

I think it's time to make a "big splash" from the pitching market.

[Warfarin]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

That's a total Eppler move and it worked out with Bundy, but was a complete disaster with Teheran, Cahill, and Harvey.

If Minasian feels that's the best route to take, then I'll trust his judgement. But this team has avoided getting big name pitchers for what, 8 years now? That hasn't worked out. 

I think it's time to make a "big splash" from the pitching market.

Personally, I would support giving up excess talent to secure a front-line SP, while using free agency to sign someone like Quintana.  I would rather do that than sign Bauer (or any pitcher) to a 6 year deal.

I support giving up Adell for Snell or someone in that caliber, while signing Quintana.  Even if Quintana doesn't pan out, I think we'd still be okay in terms of our rotation, as long as we brought in a high-caliber arm.

[Halodays]

8 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

This is why I'm actually a fan of the idea of pursuing someone like Quintana as one option to fill out our rotation.  He's coming off a down year, but he'll likely require a max of a 2 year commitment, or more likely just one year, and he'll be only 32 years old at the start of the season.  The best teams tend to find undervalued players who are coming off down years and help them re-discover their form.  Quintana has incentive to sign just a one-year deal to re-establish his value and re-enter free agency in a better offseason (i.e., not this offseason).

Instead of buying high on someone like Bauer, who is coming off a career season, or trading for someone who just had their best season, perhaps it is wise to invest in someone who has an otherwise fairly strong pedigree but just had one down year.

I don't think Quintana is better than what the Angels have. He's had more than just one down year pitching for the Cubs. Chances are he's seen his better days.

[Warfarin]

3 minutes ago, Halodays said:

I don't think Quintana is better than what the Angels have. He's had more than just one down year pitching for the Cubs. Chances are he's seen his better days.

I think he's probably better than Barria.  But the key thing would be adding layers of depth.  If we can keep Suarez, Sandoval, etc in AAA and stretched out, while having, say, Snell, Bundy, Heaney, Quintana, Canning, Ohtani*, then that should hopefully help improve our floor, at least, as a team.

And, on a one-year deal, Quintana has a vested interest to rebound and pitch well.  I know people point to Eppler's failed experiments, but this is where we have to place our faith in our new talent evaluator to pick someone with a better chance of rebounding than Eppler.

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Personally, I would support giving up excess talent to secure a front-line SP, while using free agency to sign someone like Quintana.  I would rather do that than sign Bauer (or any pitcher) to a 6 year deal.

I support giving up Adell for Snell or someone in that caliber, while signing Quintana.  Even if Quintana doesn't pan out, I think we'd still be okay in terms of our rotation, as long as we brought in a high-caliber arm.

Ahh I see what you're getting at. Trading for someone like Snell, then signing Quintana. 

That's not a terrible idea, since it's likely if we sign Bauer, the budget is almost gone and we need other pieces.

I don't like Quintana, personally. But if we got Gray or Snell to be the frontline starter and stashed Quintana in the back, it could be a solid choice. Gives us depth and likely $10-15 million in payroll to spend on RF and catcher, and maybe another bullpen piece.

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Ahh I see what you're getting at. Trading for someone like Snell, then signing Quintana. 

That's not a terrible idea, since it's likely if we sign Bauer, the budget is almost gone and we need other pieces.

I don't like Quintana, personally. But if we got Gray or Snell to be the frontline starter and stashed Quintana in the back, it could be a solid choice. Gives us depth and likely $10-15 million in payroll to spend on RF and catcher, and maybe another bullpen piece.

Yessir.  It doesn't have to be Quintana - could be someone like Odorizzi or others.  But yeah, you get my point - acquire a high-caliber arm via trade, someone who has a 3-4 year commitment and still on the young-ish side, and then roll the dice on a middle-tier arm in free agency who likely just requires a one-year commitment.  

Our prime trade pieces are Adell and Jackson, as we are stacked with OFers and have 3B covered for years and can afford to part with both.  If we can build a trade around those 2, I think we'll be in great shape.

[AngelsLakersFan]

38 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I think he's probably better than Barria.  But the key thing would be adding layers of depth.  If we can keep Suarez, Sandoval, etc in AAA and stretched out, while having, say, Snell, Bundy, Heaney, Quintana, Canning, Ohtani*, then that should hopefully help improve our floor, at least, as a team.

And, on a one-year deal, Quintana has a vested interest to rebound and pitch well.  I know people point to Eppler's failed experiments, but this is where we have to place our faith in our new talent evaluator to pick someone with a better chance of rebounding than Eppler.

It all comes down to budget. I don't think we can reasonably expect there to be room in that budget for Bauer and anyone else. Honestly Im not even sure how we fit Bauer in considering the commitments to Pujols, Upton, Trout and Rendon already. I think they should add 2 projectably above average arms and I think Quintana profiles as that and at a price point that would allow for someone else.

It's hard to say what a trade would look like right now... I'm hesitant to want the team to give up big pieces of its future without finding the right return. I dont think this team requires a #1 starter to make a playoff run as currently constructed.

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, CanadianHalo said:

I’d do Marsh, C-Rod, Kochanowicz and Jackson/Paris for Snell or Gray if it meant hanging onto Adell.

Hang onto Adell at all costs!

Waaay too much for three years of Snell.    

[Angel Oracle]

49 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Yessir.  It doesn't have to be Quintana - could be someone like Odorizzi or others.  But yeah, you get my point - acquire a high-caliber arm via trade, someone who has a 3-4 year commitment and still on the young-ish side, and then roll the dice on a middle-tier arm in free agency who likely just requires a one-year commitment.  

Our prime trade pieces are Adell and Jackson, as we are stacked with OFers and have 3B covered for years and can afford to part with both.  If we can build a trade around those 2, I think we'll be in great shape.

Might, might, need to move Rendon to 1B in about 3-4 years.

[Condor1984]

The cap is an issue. The price in prospects is an issue. Not getting Trout into the post season is an issue.

Bauer needs to happen. And, Grey needs to happen. Sandoval shouldn't be starting. Six SPs are needed for insurance. Bauer, Grey, Bundy, Heaney, Canning & Barria is more like what it will take to get there and go deep.

There are values to help in the BP out there too. Coach them up. The loss in prospects can be compensated for with wise signings. Dahl for instances could have lengthened the timeline in RF possibly. Reddick could too.

Pujols is gone after this year. Upton the year after.

Just get it done for a change and manage the hell out of this thing.

[Warfarin]

20 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Might, might, need to move Rendon to 1B in about 3-4 years.

While it's possible, that is a bit of the way off, and we can certainly draft a 3B and develop one in that period of time, I would imagine.

[Revad]

Or go for upside- Pederson, Richards and T. Walker.  Richards was throwing 95 last year and would be 2 years from TJ.  Walker is what, 28 y/o?  Hold on to the farm for one more year.  Signing these guys and maybe a solid reliever might not set up a deep playoff run but making it to the playoffs would make me feel better.

[Warfarin]

An interesting thought too, but Rosenthal suggested in his piece this morning that the Angels might be looking to trade a prospect, along with Upton, to help offload his contract.  They'd still have to eat a sizable chunk of it I imagine, but perhaps they can find someone who will take on ~10mil per year of his remaining salary if they attach a prospect of some kind.

Notably, he has a full-trade clause, so that deeply confounds things, but it's an interesting suggestion nevertheless.

[mmc]

 

[mmc]

3 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

An interesting thought too, but Rosenthal suggested in his piece this morning that the Angels might be looking to trade a prospect, along with Upton, to help offload his contract.  They'd still have to eat a sizable chunk of it I imagine, but perhaps they can find someone who will take on ~10mil per year of his remaining salary if they attach a prospect of some kind.

Notably, he has a full-trade clause, so that deeply confounds things, but it's an interesting suggestion nevertheless.

Rosenthal just proposed the idea, he didn't actually imply that the team was actively looking to do this or even consider it.

[AngelsLakersFan]

10 minutes ago, mmc said:

 

When was he hurt? The days he was pitching?

[tdawg87]

7 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

When was he hurt? The days he was pitching?

Yeah. Strained neck.

[Revad]

8 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Yeah. Strained neck.

From watching over his shoulder as batted balls head to the bleachers?

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, Revad said:

From watching over his shoulder as batted balls head to the bleachers?

you ruined his joke

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, Revad said:

From watching over his shoulder as batted balls head to the bleachers?

[Revad]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

I’m sorry but at my age I strain enough muscles that I speculate how they occur

[angelsnationtalk]

28 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

An interesting thought too, but Rosenthal suggested in his piece this morning that the Angels might be looking to trade a prospect, along with Upton, to help offload his contract.  They'd still have to eat a sizable chunk of it I imagine, but perhaps they can find someone who will take on ~10mil per year of his remaining salary if they attach a prospect of some kind.

Notably, he has a full-trade clause, so that deeply confounds things, but it's an interesting suggestion nevertheless.

I found this interesting, to say the least. I've talked about ideas to move him, but having Ken suggest it is interesting. 

I wonder if it's even possible to do all three of these...

Sign Bauer
Trade for one of Snell/Marquez/Gray (could package of Adams/Jackson/Detmers help the Upton idea?)
Trade package to dump portion of Upton's contract.

Obviously they'd now have outfield spots open but they might be able to find cheaper replacement with FA or from a return of a trade. 

Would be very complicated to do, but just curious. 

[Stradling]

57 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

An interesting thought too, but Rosenthal suggested in his piece this morning that the Angels might be looking to trade a prospect, along with Upton, to help offload his contract.  They'd still have to eat a sizable chunk of it I imagine, but perhaps they can find someone who will take on ~10mil per year of his remaining salary if they attach a prospect of some kind.

Notably, he has a full-trade clause, so that deeply confounds things, but it's an interesting suggestion nevertheless.

It would have to be a contender or else he isn’t going to go.  So which team is a contender that might want a guy like Upton, maybe Oakland?