Ken Rosenthal: No more excuses for Eppler

[Stradling]

25 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

While this is true, Eppler cannot use this excuse again this offseason. 

You hear all the time that a player would like to go here or there, but money talks. Eppler & Arte need to make it happen. I don't give a rats ass if Boras is their agent. 

Chuck, what is your limit?  I truly believe we have as good of chance as any for Cole, and we would probably be on the short list for Strausburg assuming he wants to be closer to SD where he grew up.  That being said, we know we will HAVE to play the waiting game for either of these guys because as you’ve mentioned they are Boras clients.  So working inside of a budget, lets say they are going to spend $45 million on two pitchers, and they spend $15 million on Wheeler for example.  Then they play the waiting game on Cole, what if he re-ups in Houston.  Is that still Eppler’s fault, is it an excuse?  In my opinion there are way too many variables to call these excuses.  Obviously an off season where we only sign a guy like Wheeler isn’t what we want, but it could very well turn out like the Lakers and KL, they were waiting for him and by the time he signed every other premium free agent was off the market.  If there was an unlimited budget then they could simply go buy Odorozzi and Wheeler and wait out Cole, then if they don’t get Cole they still have two of the better free agent starters, but that isn’t realistic.  Or they could go sign one of those two and then make a modest but aggressive offer on a guy like Miley, then if you do get Cole and need to free up some cash you trade Simmons?  There are a few ways this could go, but the bottom line is this isn’t simply going shopping, where there is one product and one consumer.  The product has a real say in the matter, the most say.  

[totdprods]

Worth mentioning, that’s another reason swinging a trade should be second priority, as it helps them play the waiting game for Cole/Strasburg. 

[Stradling]

23 minutes ago, totdprods said:

That was 2018 Marsh I was referencing. 2019 Marsh isn't being dealt for anything less than a clear-cut MLB #2 SP, like a Robbie Ray or Stroman or Thor, or a guy with #4 floor-#2 ceiling and control/cheap arb. price, like a Boyd, and only then if he makes up majority of the value we give up.

This is more about buying a really young, cheap SP who has legit talent but might not look it at all right now. Ironically, Giolito's White Sox have three talented young arms that look bad based off their counting stats - Dylan Cease, Dylan Covey, Reynaldo Lopez - but I'd be looking at any one of them if we could swap out something like Jones, Ward, Jackson, Bradish types. This board would freak that we got a guy with a 6.00 ERA (like Giolito last year) but if that arm came together quickly and found their 3.30 ERA ceiling (like Giolito this year) it'd be a huge lift to the rotation...in addition to signing one top arm like Cole, Wheeler, Ryu, Bumgarner, Hamels, and potentially much better value than signing a second mid-tier arm like Odorizzi, Pineda, Wacha, Gibson, etc.

I am not sure I would throw Jackson in with those other guys.  I don’t know enough about Bradish, but Jones and Ward to me are considerably less valuable than a 19 year old SS with that kind of power.

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, Baghdad Strad said:

I am not sure I would throw Jackson in with those other guys.  I don’t know enough about Bradish, but Jones and Ward to me are considerably less valuable than a 19 year old SS with that kind of power.

Take it with a grain of salt. It was more just an example that non-Marsh prospects for pitchers comparable to 2018 Giolito should be a template the Angels explore. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Well, recall that when the deadline passed, there was some comment Eppler made about pursuing SP who had something like 4, 5, or 6 years of control left. That rules out almost everyone reportedly available - Ray, Stroman, Thor, even Boyd - and likely means he was working more on guys like Zac Gallen and Trevor Richards from Miami. 

And I think that's really where his trade efforts will be focused - he will be looking for an enormously cheap, controllable, talented young arm that hasn't ascended to a price that he won't pay (i.e. Marsh) but rather bank on a young, fairly unknown talent who has yet to breakout. Eppler got a lot of really good starts from pitchers like Pena, Bridwell, J.C. Ramirez, and now maybe even Dillon Peters, all without really giving up much of anything. 

Right now, the Angels have a lot of "eh maybe?" prospects - Taylor Ward, Jose Rojas, Jared Walsh, Jahmai Jones, Michael Hermosillo, maybe even Matt Thaiss - that could work out, or they might not. Really hard to tell with any of them, either due to MLB struggles, PCL over-inflating stats, lack of MLB playing time, challenges at AA for Jones - which to me, seem like the perfect type of prospect to surrender for a fairly unknown/breakout candidate controlled SP. Sure, it might backfire, but it isn't Marsh, Suarez, and Thaiss for Boyd. There's risk for both sides. For once, Billy Eppler has something he can spend on pitching in a trade for a potential breakout arm - he just needs to find a match. I'm confident that the work they've done to find Pena, Bridwell, Ramirez, and Peters could be applied to other teams AAA/rookie #5 guys and now, with some prospects to spend, he can find that guy. This is the best way to address a need cheaply while using up some of our fairly redundant and questionable prospect stock.

I really think the Angels were aggressively after Zac Gallen - who has been phenomenal this year for MIA/ARI in a dozen starts - and was really not projected to be this good, this quick. The Diamondbacks gave up Chisholm, who really could have only been matched by the Angels offering Marsh or something like Rengifo/Jones/Fletcher plus a second quality prospect - certainly too much for Eppler at that time. Aaron Sanchez was also a target supposedly, and I think he too would have made sense.

In my mind, the Angels trade talks will be less on the Boyd/Ray types, and more on guys like John Means, Dinelson Lamet, Braves, Tigers, Marlins, and Padres AAA SP, Jake Junis, Brad Keller, Spencer Turnbull, etc....guys who should come with an MLB-ready #4-5 floor, but could ascend to a #2-#3 within a season or two. Guys like Dylan Bundy sort of fit that mold too, but don't come with the control/cheap salary. Trying to buy someone the year before a breakout, not the year(s) after, like Boyd and Ray.

teams that aren't going to win any time soon aren't giving up guys with a #2-3 ceiling and a #4-5 floor for Ward or Jones, or Rojas, or Herm.  Especially when that guy is major league ready.  You might get a guy like that who's in high A but not one on the cusp of contributing.  All the guys we're talking about on the Angels side have a AAA floor with a little upside who most likely end up part time players.  If I'm another GM, there's no way I'm giving up a major league ready pitcher who's likely a back of the rotation piece that might actually end up more than that.  Take a guy like Barria.  He's actually a a swing guy with a #4 ceiling.   I don't think we'd even get someone like him for any of those guys above.  

If Eppler can get Lamet or Means for some combo of those guys you mentioned then he's a magician.     

I agree that going after one of those mid market pitchers is very risky but the ROI is better than in years past due to the market bottoming out on them.    Guys in that range like Kennedy were getting 5/75 in the past.  Now they're getting 3/30.  Not saying that's a great bet but at least now we're seeing some value in that group if you pick the right guy.  Its time for Eppler to pick the right guys regardless of a trade or FA.  

[Inside Pitch]

42 minutes ago, Baghdad Strad said:

I am not sure I would throw Jackson in with those other guys.  I don’t know enough about Bradish, but Jones and Ward to me are considerably less valuable than a 19 year old SS with that kind of power.

I was super high on Jackson BEFORE his big HR totals this season, ranking him #5 on my list when we were doing our top 30..  So, I'm not saying this as a slam.... but, he's precisely the sort of guy you dangle to get someone good.  The power numbers have turned some heads after it was looking like it was there last year....  but he's got some flaws.   As much as I like him, he's the epitome of high risk.  Anytime you can turn a guy in rookie ball with question marks into a legit MLB pitcher you should consider making that move.  It's not about not liking him or thinking he will bust, it's more a case of cashing in on the potential when it might be prematurely high.  As an example, imagine what the Angels would have been able to get for Mathis after his year in Cedar Rapids, when he was viewed as the second best catching prospect in MLB behind Joe Mauer.

[angelsnationtalk]

49 minutes ago, totdprods said:

That was 2018 Marsh I was referencing. 2019 Marsh isn't being dealt for anything less than a clear-cut MLB #2 SP, like a Robbie Ray or Stroman or Thor, or a guy with #4 floor-#2 ceiling and control/cheap arb. price, like a Boyd, and only then if he makes up majority of the value we give up.

This is more about buying a really young, cheap SP who has legit talent but might not look it at all right now. Ironically, Giolito's White Sox have three talented young arms that look bad based off their counting stats - Dylan Cease, Dylan Covey, Reynaldo Lopez - but I'd be looking at any one of them if we could swap out something like Jones, Ward, Jackson, Bradish types. This board would freak that we got a guy with a 6.00 ERA (like Giolito last year) but if that arm came together quickly and found their 3.30 ERA ceiling (like Giolito this year) it'd be a huge lift to the rotation...in addition to signing one top arm like Cole, Wheeler, Ryu, Bumgarner, Hamels, and potentially much better value than signing a second mid-tier arm like Odorizzi, Pineda, Wacha, Gibson, etc.

yup totally agree. I'd trade Marsh for Thor in a heartbeat (obviously there would be more involved). It'd be especially nice to do so knowing we can get him signed to an extension. I'd relax my Marsh/Upton fears with something like that.

[Stradling]

14 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I was super high on Jackson BEFORE his big HR totals this season, ranking him #5 on my list when we were doing our top 30..  So, I'm not saying this as a slam.... but, he's precisely the sort of guy you dangle to get someone good.  The power numbers have turned some heads after it was looking like it was there last year....  but he's got some flaws.   As much as I like him, he's the epitome of high risk.  Anytime you can turn a guy in rookie ball with question marks into a legit MLB pitcher you should consider making that move.  It's not about not liking him or thinking he will bust, it's more a case of cashing in on the potential when it might be prematurely high.  As an example, imagine what the Angels would have been able to get for Mathis aged his year in Cedar Rapids, when he was viewed as the second best catching prospect in MLB behind Joe Mauer.

I get that but I read it as trading him for a guy like Barría with the possible upside of someone better.  

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

teams that aren't going to win any time soon aren't giving up guys with a #2-3 ceiling and a #4-5 floor for Ward or Jones, or Rojas, or Herm.  Especially when that guy is major league ready.  You might get a guy like that who's in high A but not one on the cusp of contributing.  All the guys we're talking about on the Angels side have a AAA floor with a little upside who most likely end up part time players.  If I'm another GM, there's no way I'm giving up a major league ready pitcher who's likely a back of the rotation piece that might actually end up more than that.  Take a guy like Barria.  He's actually a a swing guy with a #4 ceiling.   I don't think we'd even get someone like him for any of those guys above.  

There's a lot of threads going on with similar conversations, but I'm applying those labels very, very liberally, and naming names more for example than for serious discussion. It's sort of hard to predict who might be targeted, who might be dealt, when the parameters are fairly unprecedented or uncommon. Editing to add @Inside Pitch - don't sweat the names too much. Get past that and look more at the concept.

Eppler is clever and creative, and I do think forward-thinking enough to be able to parallel some of the moves Houston, New York, and Los Angeles have made - I think a lot of his smaller deals, such as Pena, La Stella, Peters are representative of that. I think it's time for him to try and make a comparable deal using larger pieces - that doesn't mean a big Marsh for Boyd deal, but maybe he can make prospects like Ward/Jones/Jackson/Bradish/Maitan that don't have immediate dynamic impact (a step-up in value from guys like Lillis-White and Stevens) for someone like a Elieser Hernandez or Kyle Freeland or John Means (a step up from Dillon Peters or Felix Pena) who should come with control, some potential, and an acceptable floor.

Edited September 5, 2019 by totdprods

[totdprods]

18 minutes ago, RBM said:

Why are we still making excuses for Eppler? I've found myself doing it over and over. No longer. It's time for him to fix the pitching rotation and make us a playoff contender or go away.

 As for Thaiss versus Smith it was an example that I haven't seen anyone mention before so I added it to the mix. The Angels were obviously scouting the ACC and aware of Smith. They chose to pick Thaiss instead of Will Smith. Those choices can change the future of a franchise. So now we have Stassi at catcher instead of Smith and Thaiss is a utility corner infielder who can't hit his weight.

Hah, you're talking about catchers in a draft four years ago and then jumping straight into fixing the pitching staff now. 

All I'm saying is it's sort of moot to go back and critique moves made four years ago with the gift of hindsight now. He walked into a shitshow, and he's done a lot to turn things around. I do think action is needed and is coming soon.

[totdprods]

16 minutes ago, RBM said:

No, I'm talking about a series of bad decisions. Some from 2016 and some following into 2019.

I'm talking about no more making excuses for the guy. I think we agree on that.

I don't....I've sort of understood 2016-2020 to be the window for Eppler to fix the numerous fires within the organization, building for a better 2020-2030. 

The primary reasons we have not competed the last few years are not Eppler's bad decisions, it's been the injuries to the pitching staff. I'll cede that some of his decisions to patch that hole - Lincecum, Cahill, Harvey - haven't been good, but they weren't the reason we lost, nor was Zack Cozart or Luis Valbuena, nor was failing to sign JA Happ or Wilson Ramos. The last few years have been mostly garbage because injuries and fact that we had nothing internal to turn to for support. That wasn't his doing. 

2020 is a big season though in how I view Eppler. I want to see the Angels put a lot of faith in Rengifo, Fletcher, Adell, Thaiss, Ward, Walsh, Hermosillo, Barria, Suarez, Sandoval. If those guys start to really gel and look, collectively, like a core that will win 80-85 games as a baseline (if they don't make a bunch of big splashes this offseason), then I will give Eppler LOTS of leash over the next few years, because it means his turnaround is working. He's developing minor league talent, drafting well, trading well. The one thing he wouldn't have proved yet would be free agency, which honestly isn't the worst thing, because that should be your last resort for improving the club. If trades, drafting, and minor league development is working, then we're in good shape.

If 2020 ends and Rengifo has a .650 OPS, Thaiss is hitting .200, Ward is in AAA, Adell is just okay, and Barria, Suarez, and Sandoval have a collective ERA north of 5.50, then yeah, something needs to change - either Eppler, or in his approach. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by totdprods

[Angel Oracle]

Poor M's fan, they don't know what's in for them this next decade.     Seeing what Dumbpoto did to this franchise, it's scary how bad their franchise could get.

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, RBM said:

Eppler gets a lot of credit for his draft picks and improving the farm system but his very first pick in 2016 was a blunder. 

He chose Matt Thaiss, a catcher out of UVA. Later in the first round the Dodgers chose Will Smith, a catcher out of Louisville.

Eppler started his first draft by choosing the wrong catcher from the ACC!!

Can you imagine how much better this team would be positioned if Eppler had made the right choice in the first round of the 2016 draft.

 

our director of Scouting got replaced almost immediately after that draft.  Then the entire scouting department got revamped.  

Wasn't a huge fan of that pick either, but you're never going to nail it in the late first round.  The dogs also took Lux a few picks after us and Whitley was the next pick after us.  

the Cards are smart and they too Delvin Perez.  The padres took Hudson Potts.  The Phils took Moniak with the first pick.  

Thaiss is in the major playing better than expected defense at 3b and while he hasn't been great at the plate so far he hasn't been absolutely atrocious either for a guy with 123 PA in his first taste of the majors at age 24.  

How about a shade more time for him to adjust before we conclude that he's not going to be a solid player at 3b for a few years.  

There's also nothing to believe that Smith is gonna keep rocking a 152 wRC+ or better for his career.  Don't get me wrong, would love to have the guy in our org.  I'm just not ready to draw any conclusions.  on two guys with just over 100 PA in the majors.  Baseball is riddled with guys who come up and impress out of the gate yet fall back quite a bit or those that come up and struggle yet figure it out and end up really good.  

[Angel Oracle]

The best way to put it is that he guessed totally wrong on pitchers this past off-season.     Hopefully, now that he will be going after the bigger money guys, those selections won't be nearly as disastrous for 2020 and beyond.   This is the time to strike, with a lot of the team in place, and now truly needing two durable and really solid starting pitchers.   No more Cahills or Harveys 

[totdprods]

19 minutes ago, RBM said:

Disagree. If he signs Miley and Lyles to one year deals instead of Harvey and Cahill we are much more competitive this year. Or if he had adopted a different plan and signed pitchers to two year deals he could have signed Fiers or Gio or Lynn and we would have been much more competitive.

His plan was one year deals. The execution of his plan resulted in signing the two poorest performing 2019 free agent starting pitchers.

It's ok to criticize Eppler. We don't need to keep making excuses for the bad decisions. It's been four years.

If if if. He also went after Corbin, Happ, Eovaldi, Ramos, and Britton. Happ, Eovaldi, and Ramos would've been better than Harvey and Cahill in terms of production this year, but they would have cut out any hope of getting Cole or anyone else following this season. I don't think anyone here would've drawn much difference between Harvey, Cahill, Gio, Miley, Fiers, or Lynn at the onset of the offseason, without knowing what they'd sign for. They all rank as similarly as Wood, Gibson, Odorizzi, Roark, Pineda, etc. do now.The one-year deals sucked but they were a means to an end. I've never really bought the idea that the Angels were truly serious about winning anything more than 2nd WC the last four years, despite what we as fans would hope or what lip service was paid to the media and casual fan. 

This has been a rebuild since Eppler started, and rebuilds take a few seasons. I have no problem pointing out that almost all of his FA deals have sucked, but I also don't think they were ever really intended to do much for us in the first place. I think Eppler's focus has been developing talent internally, finding cheap, valuable, controllable pieces where able, and securing a core of young talent for the day where he did opt to start playing big in FA and the trade market, and he himself has said that day has not come but will one day.

I still think that if you were able to peek in at the Angels internal documents, the ones they were basing their decisions on, their true internal plans, their 2016-2020 Five Year Plan, you'd find something along the lines of...

1) Priority 1A - develop, keep, and sign all minor-league talent possible and build internal systems to keep the pipeline flowing with young talent 2020-2030 - trade/lose no one of any significance
2) Priority 1B - re-sign/extend Mike Trout
3) Priority 2 - only acquire truly dynamic impact vets if the cost is so reasonable it's a no-brainer (Simmons, Upton)
4) Priority 3 - you have $xxx in free salary each season, use it to fill the MLB team with familiar MLB players so casual fans think we'll compete and show up so we keep getting $3m attendance money to support Priorities 1A and 1B

If at the end of 2020, we're not seeing at least league average results from Thaiss/Ward, Rengifo, Barria, Suarez, Sandoval, then I think it's time to start wondering if Eppler's plans and ability to develop talent within are valid - does he double-down and stick with the kids and really put it all on the line, thinking they'll blossom into division-contenders in 2021? Or does he accept the internal talent isn't what it should be, and start bringing talent more aggressively? Either way, I think giving him one more year in 2020 is fair.

Edited September 5, 2019 by totdprods

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

our director of Scouting got replaced almost immediately after that draft.  Then the entire scouting department got revamped.  

This points to one of the more encouraging things I've seen with Eppler - he cuts bait on vets much faster than any other recent GM, he has tinkered with the coaching staff following every offseason, has replaced and added minor-league staff, and has worked on adding to our scouting and international ranks. 

It would be one thing if when hired he brought in a bunch of guys in 2016 up and down the org and they were all in the same role, but he hasn't done that. This is a sign, to me, that he's well aware of the issues and shortcomings experienced in his time and he isn't waiting around for them to get worse. And it further illustrates just how stagnant this organization had become on the player development and analytics side. That to me is I think the biggest failure of the Angels in the last 15 years; they became a victim of their own Scioscia-led 2004-2009 success, to a point where they didn't feel the need to adapt or grow in that time - that's not a criticism of their lack of embracing new data, I just think as an org, they got a little lazy and felt their systems would always work because it seemed to be doing so for a decade. 

[Stradling]

14 minutes ago, RBM said:

Disagree. If he signs Miley and Lyles to one year deals instead of Harvey and Cahill we are much more competitive this year. Or if he had adopted a different plan and signed pitchers to two year deals he could have signed Fiers or Gio or Lynn and we would have been much more competitive.

His plan was one year deals. The execution of his plan resulted in signing the two poorest performing 2019 free agent starting pitchers.

It's ok to criticize Eppler. We don't need to keep making excuses for the bad decisions. It's been four years.

If he offered 2 years to Lynn we still lose him because he got three years from Texas.  Not sure four years is enough time to build a team from the ground up.   Like I’ve said before, we used to have a bad offense, bad farm, bad rotation, bad bullpen, turmoil between the manager and the front office and a bloated payroll with no flexibility.  Now we have a bad rotation.  

[Pancake Bear]

11 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

The best way to put it is that he guessed totally wrong on pitchers this past off-season.     Hopefully, now that he will be going after the bigger money guys, those selections won't be nearly as disastrous for 2020 and beyond.   This is the time to strike, with a lot of the team in place, and now truly needing two durable and really solid starting pitchers.   No more Cahills or Harveys 

He guessed wrong on one year deals. Dipoto(/Arte?) guessed wrong on 5 and 10 years deals. The worst money Eppler has spent was on Cozart, and given his shoulder issues, it's difficult to be certain if he could have been an average major league player  aside from that or not, so I personally cut him a little bit of slack on that one. 

One thing that is interesting to me: When Eppler first showed up with a hole in LF for 2017, he went for stop gaps with Gentry and Nava. In 2018, he tried Maybin and Ben Revere. With no one sticking, he made the move for Upton. I'm hoping we see something like that on the pitching front as well. After going on the cheap with Cahill and Harvey this year, I think he goes big this offseason (as far as Arte's budget allows, at any rate). 

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

One thing that is interesting to me: When Eppler first showed up with a hole in LF for 2017, he went for stop gaps with Gentry and Nava. In 2018, he tried Maybin and Ben Revere. With no one sticking, he made the move for Upton. I'm hoping we see something like that on the pitching front as well. After going on the cheap with Cahill and Harvey this year, I think he goes big this offseason (as far as Arte's budget allows, at any rate). 

We don't know yet, but there's also a real chance that Eppler has known for years that there were strong indications Gerrit Cole, or Strasburg, wanted to come back to SoCal. There's a chance he wanted to trade for Cole before Houston did. 

Knowing that one day both of those guys would likely hit the open market right at the time when the Angels intended to start graduating their rebuilt farm talent could be a reason he's kept payroll open and flexible, and a reason he didn't go all-in on Patrick Corbin or spend more to ensure we got FAs the last couple winters. 

When it comes down to it, would you have rather the Angels signed Patrick Corbin last winter or Gerrit Cole this winter? I know I'd pick Cole every time, and if signing Harvey and Cahill early last season instead of signing Happ/Eovaldi for more years meant he kept the door open for Cole, then no wonder he opted for the path he took.

Edited September 5, 2019 by totdprods

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, RBM said:

Disagree. If he signs Miley and Lyles to one year deals instead of Harvey and Cahill we are much more competitive this year. Or if he had adopted a different plan and signed pitchers to two year deals he could have signed Fiers or Gio or Lynn and we would have been much more competitive.

His plan was one year deals. The execution of his plan resulted in signing the two poorest performing 2019 free agent starting pitchers.

It's ok to criticize Eppler. We don't need to keep making excuses for the bad decisions. It's been four years.

Harvey and Cahill were awful.  No one is making excuses for Eppler about him making some poor choices and if this team is ever going to get better, he absolutely needs to make the right choices in free agency for this major league team.  

Regardless of our timeline as fans, the org is in much better shape than it was when he started.  He doesn't get a pass by any stretch as I think all would agree that the incremental improvements elsewhere throughout the org need to start translating into wins.  I think what people are saying is that he's still in a fairly strong position to make that happen even with some failures this year.  He still has to do it and the jury is still out as to whether he can or not but no GM is perfect and there are gonna be mistakes.  

But yes, there need to be wins at the major league level next year and the team should truly compete or I would agree that while he's done reasonably well, another losing season isn't acceptable outside of catastrophic injuries.  

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, RBM said:

Eppler has been here for four years now so I think we can look at the draft from four years ago as a measure. Thaiss is the only player from the 2016 draft who has made it to the Majors. No other player from our 2016 draft has even made it to AAA. This was Eppler's first draft nine months into his tenure.

By comparison, There are 5 players from the 2016 Dodger draft who played in the majors this season and another 5 players who played in AAA this year.

So the score is Dodgers 10 and Angels 1.

It is ok to criticize Billy Eppler for his mistakes now. It's been 4 years.

Yes let's compare Eppler's very first draft to the organization with the greatest scouting department in the majors by far. That's totally fair and makes perfect sense.

How many players have the Dodgers graduated the last two years? The Angels have 8 by my count.

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, RBM said:

By comparison, There are 5 players from the 2016 Dodger draft who played in the majors this season and another 5 players who played in AAA this year.

 So the score is Dodgers 10 and Angels 1.

The Dodgers have had a historically great development and amateur scouting program. The Angels have not. 

Eppler relied on much of the staff that was already here that first draft, and cleaned house following. I’m not going to be too critical of his 2016 draft.

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, RBM said:

Eppler has been here for four years now so I think we can look at the draft from four years ago as a measure. Thaiss is the only player from the 2016 draft who has made it to the Majors. No other player from our 2016 draft has even made it to AAA. This was Eppler's first draft nine months into his tenure.

By comparison, There are 5 players from the 2016 Dodger draft who played in the majors this season and another 5 players who played in AAA this year.

So the score is Dodgers 10 and Angels 1.

It is ok to criticize Billy Eppler for his mistakes now. It's been 4 years.

Sure go for it.   I never said you couldn’t.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, RBM said:

No, I'm talking about a series of bad decisions. Some from 2016 and some following into 2019.

And I am using the 2016 draft as an example. The Dodgers drafted Will Smith and Gavin Lux in the first two rounds. Eppler chose Matt Thaiss and Brandon Marsh.

I'm talking about no more making excuses for the guy. I think we agree on that.

Lux was a first rounder...    He was taken 20th overall, well ahead of Marsh. 

Your revisionist history also glosses over the reality of the situation back then...  Thaiss was taken where he was to save money in order to sign Marsh.   There was a concerted effort being made at the time to flood the system with as many players as possible, so tough signs and the sort were not in the cards.   You can call it mistakes and I dnt think you're being unfair, but your position requires someone to ignore what the situation was at the time...

Seriously, Eppler was doing farm system triage at the time.  Pointing to the Dodgers and pretending the Angels were in position to mimic their moves is a tad out of touch -- he had not even installed his people yet.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, RBM said:

Ok. Fair enough.  The Dodgers are very good at this but still, it pisses me off that they find Will Smith and Gavin Lux late in the first round but Eppler gives us Matt Thaiss with the 16th pick  

I’ve been a huge supporter of Eppler and I understand he inherited a dysfunctional franchise from  DiPoto and Reagins. But it’s been four years. My patience is gone. It is time to hold him accountable for his actions and looking back at the 2016 draft is fair game. 

Go right ahead.  I’m sure the people on here that share your opinion on this will love your company.