Ken Rosenthal: No more excuses for Eppler

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

Exactly how did that conversation go ... if you don’t mind sharing with us?

I can’t share it exactly. Suffice to say, I am pretty sure he’s interested in the Angels. Does that guarantee he’ll sign with them? No. But the Angels are definitely going to be deep into the mix.

[Docwaukee]

@Jeff Fletcher SAID WE'RE GETTING COLE!!!!!

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 hours ago, eligrba said:

Cole hires Borass, not the other way around. Borass is a douche for how he manipulates the process but it is the player who determines the outcome.  Unless someone plays video games with him, or @Tank has an opening to meet with him, we will never know the underlying factors until Cole decides.

Great... @Tank is going to take him to a veggie spot, and order cole slaw as a wink wink joke. Cole will laugh, but a just to be polite chuckle at best, then play with his phone for an hour.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, TC #27 said:

Four Years and another year added on a option year with No playoffs.Yeah Amble time,Lets move on

Lol

What name were you using before this one on here?

[Lou]

4 hours ago, Dochalo said:

@Jeff Fletcher SAID WE'RE GETTING COLE!!!!!

Glen says:"YAY!"

[Lou]

6 hours ago, TC #27 said:

Four Years and another year added on a option year with No playoffs.Yeah Amble time,Lets move on

Public school! 

[Angel Oracle]

After seeing Buttrey’s collapse since the ASB, it needs to be Cole, Hamels, Machete, and a GOOD late innings guy this off-season.

[angelsnationtalk]

14 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

In the case of Gerrit Cole, the Angels are in the room. They are the favorites. It doesn’t mean they’ll sign him, but they have a better chance than anyone else. 

Okay, So let's say this does work out and he's an Angel. Maybe even for a discount (which won't happen with Boras). What's a likely move next? signing a FA to fit in the #2 rr #3 spot? Or the Angels trading for it?

[angelsnationtalk]

48 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

After seeing Buttrey’s collapse since the ASB, it needs to be Cole, Hamels, Machete, and a GOOD late innings guy this off-season.

I think the results of bullpen are due to complete overuse. Signing some FA starters next year that get us into the 6th and 7th inning will really help. Bullpen is just gassed out. Plus that was Buttrey's first full season. He showed us how dominant he can be so I'd expect him to grow on that.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Okay, So let's say this does work out and he's an Angel. Maybe even for a discount (which won't happen with Boras). What's a likely move next? signing a FA to fit in the #2 rr #3 spot? Or the Angels trading for it?

Yes

[Chuck]

30 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Yes

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Angels could get a nice young starting pitcher for a package like: Suarez, Sandoval or Soriano, + one or both of Marsh and Jackson. 

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Angels could get a nice young starting pitcher for a package like: Suarez, Sandoval or Soriano, + one or both of Marsh and Jackson. 

You’d think so especially in a 3 for 1 trade.  But the amount of teams that have an extra #2 starter might be limited.  

[totdprods]

13 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Angels could get a nice young starting pitcher for a package like: Suarez, Sandoval or Soriano, + one or both of Marsh and Jackson. 

It will come down to whoever Eppler can get for the best price, with a bit of variation on how much that #1 SP acquisition costs. If Cole costs an arm and a leg, it tightens the belt on the second arm. If we miss out on Cole and get someone like Hamels or Ryu or Bumgarner for significantly less money and commitment, then he can spend a little more free and easy on the next guy. 

If he can solve that second SP acquisition on a free agent deal because the dollars and years are right, like Hamels at 1/$18m, Wheeler at 3/$39m, Odorizzi at 3/$30m, or Pineda at 2/$18m, then I think he jumps on that. If prices go way above that, probably not via FA. 

If he can nab someone from the Thor, Boyd, Ray, Archer, Stroman, Teheran (wide range of talent listed was intentional) without it being a massive prospect overpay, I think he goes that route. 

Regardless of how those first two scenarios or the Gerrit Cole situation plays out, I think we'll see him still add one more SP via trade, like a Taylor Ward for Erik Swanson, or something paralleling the Dillon Peters trade, or a waiver claim of another Felix Pena-type, to still add one additional layer - this could also be a late January/February flyer on a vet SP still standing, sort of like the Miley/Gio deals last spring. Someone for $3m, maybe non-guaranteed, perhaps a Tyson Ross or Matt Moore or Jeremy Hellickson.

Edited September 6, 2019 by totdprods

[Chuck]

13 minutes ago, Baghdad Strad said:

You’d think so especially in a 3 for 1 trade.  But the amount of teams that have an extra #2 starter might be limited.  

I'll take a solid young #3 type like Griffin Canning or slightly better for that package too. 

Someone that's young and ready like a Adrian Houser, Tony Gonsolin, Cal Quantril, Zac Gallen, Mitch Keller, German Marquez, Max Fried, etc. etc.

[Angel Oracle]

Gallen has been dealing since going to AZ, 2.25 ERA in 32 innings (5 1/3 innings/start).

[totdprods]

24 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Gallen has been dealing since going to AZ, 2.25 ERA in 32 innings (5 1/3 innings/start).

I can’t help but think the Angels were really pursuing him at the deadline based off Eppler’s comments about who they targeted. 

I’m sure Miami was asking for at least Marsh, based on the return they got in Chisholm.

[Docwaukee]

I think people are underestimating the importance that a prospects proximity to the majors has on their trade value.  

Elite prospects like a Wander Franco or Joe Adell are always going to have tremendous value from early on in their careers but that only applies to a handful of guys.  

Guys in AA/AAA are so much more valuable in trade than guys in rookie ball and even A ball.  Not just because they're closer to the majors and likely to contribute sooner than later but because they are more of a known quantity and less of a crap shoot.  

Marsh's value on the trade market went up by leaps and bounds this year because of his success in AA.  To the point that he could now likely centerpiece a deal whereas last year that wasn't necessarily the case.  

While I don't put a ton of stock is farm ranking systems, the general consensus is that we're somewhere in the middle of the pack as overall system and I think that's a fair assessment.  This isn't because we don't have some really good prospects with tremendous upside but that because of their proximity to the majors we literally have two centerpiece players in this system right now and one of them isn't gonna be traded.  With a strong 2020, Adams could be another.  All of our developing and improving depth is at A ball or lower.  That sort of thing doesn't bode well when attempting to construct a trade.  It's why it costs to rookie ball guy with some upside to get Max friggin' Stassi.  

I understand people's frustration with the major league club and I, too, am getting impatient with the lack of movement in the win column, but that impatience has to be balanced with reality and what is best for the org long term.  

I want Billy to fix everything that's wrong with this team in the coming off season as much as the next guy so we can have a chance to win the division next year, but I also don't want to see him short change the potential value of certain players by falling subject to the pressure of that.  

I'll leave it up to Billy to find that balance but I would rather see a little more of what some of these farm pieces can become than to provide them as ancillary parts because the natives are getting restless.  

[angelsnationtalk]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Yes

Okay but what do you think is more likely in your opinion...

[angelsnationtalk]

3 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I think people are underestimating the importance that a prospects proximity to the majors has on their trade value.  

Elite prospects like a Wander Franco or Joe Adell are always going to have tremendous value from early on in their careers but that only applies to a handful of guys.  

Guys in AA/AAA are so much more valuable in trade than guys in rookie ball and even A ball.  Not just because they're closer to the majors and likely to contribute sooner than later but because they are more of a known quantity and less of a crap shoot.  

Marsh's value on the trade market went up by leaps and bounds this year because of his success in AA.  To the point that he could now likely centerpiece a deal whereas last year that wasn't necessarily the case.  

While I don't put a ton of stock is farm ranking systems, the general consensus is that we're somewhere in the middle of the pack as overall system and I think that's a fair assessment.  This isn't because we don't have some really good prospects with tremendous upside but that because of their proximity to the majors we literally have two centerpiece players in this system right now and one of them isn't gonna be traded.  With a strong 2020, Adams could be another.  All of our developing and improving depth is at A ball or lower.  That sort of thing doesn't bode well when attempting to construct a trade.  It's why it costs to rookie ball guy with some upside to get Max friggin' Stassi.  

I understand people's frustration with the major league club and I, too, am getting impatient with the lack of movement in the win column, but that impatience has to be balanced with reality and what is best for the org long term.  

I want Billy to fix everything that's wrong with this team in the coming off season as much as the next guy so we can have a chance to win the division next year, but I also don't want to see him short change the potential value of certain players by falling subject to the pressure of that.  

I'll leave it up to Billy to find that balance but I would rather see a little more of what some of these farm pieces can become than to provide them as ancillary parts because the natives are getting restless.  

Totally agree, which is why I think a trade like that doesn't come this offseason, but rather to 2020 trade deadline. From there, we will have a better picture of what prospect have raised their value. If Adams breaks out then it becomes much easier to let Marsh be traded for that solid #2 piece. 

[totdprods]

44 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I'll take a solid young #3 type like Griffin Canning or slightly better for that package too. 

Someone that's young and ready like a Adrian Houser, Tony Gonsolin, Cal Quantril, Zac Gallen, Mitch Keller, German Marquez, Max Fried, etc. etc.

As I pointed out on the 40-man Roster thread, the Angels are entering a period where they’ll be likely needing to protect a lot of prospects each winter for the next few seasons - some guys even quicker than you’d maybe realize - and with a team that’s already fairly full with young talent, there’s likely a logjam coming. 

If Eppler can flip 2-3 prospects for someone like you mention here, he really should pull the trigger, even if some of the names involved going back make us cringe. We very likely won’t have enough playing time for all to prove themselves and getting something for them now rather than putting them through a AAA/MLB depth carousel could be for the best.

[Duren, Duren]

This thread is like an off season thread the day before free agency. And still with a month of ball left to play out the season.

Remember, from what we have seen in media reports, Eppler is close friends with Trout. Lives (or did) on the same street, obviously was a key factor in getting the long term deal signed. He probably has had many in depth discussions about short and long term plans, personnel, philosophy and so forth. Mike is tuned into everything within the organization and can differentiate between hype and fact.

If it was convincing enough to get the deal done then it must sound good and realistic. In theory. Until reality sets in with unexpected events all over the place. 

All things considered, the team would be a playoff contender except for the black hole of starting pitching. Skaggs was totally unexpected. Ohtani was a major depletion. The damaged free agent signings were acts of desperation. Everyone knew right from the start that starting pitching was going to be anywhere from poor to disastrous. With the possibility of some unlikely heroics or quick maturation from the younger staff. Didn't happen.

With the starters going the fewest innings in baseball, they have been an embarrassment. Tune in a bit late and the team is already behind and the starter about to be pulled. How in hell can you be a winning team with such a handicap? Maybe it relates to coaching, managing, pre game scouting and other factors too. 

Eppler has been good, or at least competent at most other things. No whiz kid or genius, but pretty solid. The organization can do better, but at what cost? Even the best GM would need a few years of evaluation and restructuring. 

Everyone knows that pitching is the dominant priority. Eppler is under the spotlight now. How he deals under this pressure will define his future.

He has to make a pretty big impact this off season. Just asking for patience might have been fair a year or two ago. But hitting rock bottom burns away some of the fan goodwill. 

Not sure that gambling everything on Cole will happen. Look how agonized fans have been for years about Pujols and his never ending contract. Imagine a similar scenario with a pitcher who has a higher probability of injury or decline in effectiveness. But given the current situation, it still might be worth a serious pursuit. Even three or four great years would be worth a dead last half of his contract. By then other system bred starters should emerge.

Realistically, trades and more under the radar free agents seem likely. I wouldn't be surprised to see Simmons traded. Goodwin is at his highest value now and a possible trade candidate. Upton if anyone would take him. Really, no one other than Trout and Ohtani are untouchable. 

Fun, fun, fun till Arte take's Eppler's keys away! (Sorry for the Beach Boys reference, but I just saw them on the weekend). 

 

 

[tdawg87]

2 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Angels could get a nice young starting pitcher for a package like: Suarez, Sandoval or Soriano, + one or both of Marsh and Jackson. 

Trading pitching when we need pitching doesn't really make sense. 

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Trading pitching when we need pitching doesn't really make sense. 

Trading projectable pitching for established pitching, in addition to signing and claiming other pitching, can still actually result in more and improved pitching, FYI.

[tdawg87]

8 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Trading projectable pitching for established pitching, in addition to signing and claiming other pitching, can still actually result in more and improved pitching, FYI.

Those are some big assumptions. 

Will anybody trade a #2 starter for what we have? Probably not, unless Adell is in the mix.

[Angel Oracle]

If Marsh gets dealt, what do they do for LHH?    A non-fulltime DH in Ohtani and maybes in Thaiss and Rengifo are all they would have for LHHs after 2020, assuming LaStella isn't re-signed.