Ken Rosenthal: No more excuses for Eppler

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, RBM said:

Ok. Fair enough.  The Dodgers are very good at this but still, it pisses me off that they find Will Smith and Gavin Lux late in the first round but Eppler gives us Matt Thaiss with the 16th pick  

I’ve been a huge supporter of Eppler and I understand he inherited a dysfunctional franchise from  DiPoto and Reagins. But it’s been four years. My patience is gone. It is time to hold him accountable for his actions and looking back at the 2016 draft is fair game. 

Oh believe me, it pisses me off too. But it's what they do best. They compete every year and still have a top 5 farm system. No one compares to the Dodgers when it comes to scouting.

I am giving Eppler a pass this year but 2020 is completely different. If they don't win a WC then it's time to move on. Also, I'm expecting Arte to open up a bit. He has to.

[Stradling]

I’m still pissed they traded Nolan Ryan.  

[Inside Pitch]

7 minutes ago, RBM said:

I’ve been a huge supporter of Eppler and I understand he inherited a dysfunctional franchise from  DiPoto and Reagins. But it’s been four years. My patience is gone. It is time to hold him accountable for his actions and looking back at the 2016 draft is fair game. 

Tell me, who were the first two picks made by the Eppler regime after he installed his own people.   

[ten ocho recon scout]

40 minutes ago, RBM said:

Eppler has been here for four years now so I think we can look at the draft from four years ago as a measure. Thaiss is the only player from the 2016 draft who has made it to the Majors. No other player from our 2016 draft has even made it to AAA. This was Eppler's first draft nine months into his tenure.

By comparison, There are 5 players from the 2016 Dodger draft who played in the majors this season and another 5 players who played in AAA this year.

So the score is Dodgers 10 and Angels 1.

It is ok to criticize Billy Eppler for his mistakes now. It's been 4 years.

The dodgers are about the best run organization in baseball.

How many other teams flooded their MLB roster with 2016 draft picks? Or do we only measure against the dodgers?

Nobody is saying we are anywhere near as successful as the dodgers.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, RBM said:

So for you, when will it be time to hold Eppler accountable. If not this coming season like me, then when?

It depends on the situation.  What if he signs Cole and Strasburg.  Then Strasburg gets hurt again, and They win 88 games and miss the playoffs?  

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Baghdad Strad said:

It depends on the situation.  What if he signs Cole and Strasburg.  Then Strasburg gets hurt again, and They win 88 games and miss the playoffs?  

I'd be so fuckin pissed

[Pancake Bear]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Tell me, who were the first two picks made by the Eppler regime after he installed his own people.   

Based on memory? Adell and Canning. Then Adams and Jackson the next year.

[Pancake Bear]

2 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

The dodgers are about the best run organization in baseball.

How many other teams flooded their MLB roster with 2016 draft picks? Or do we only measure against the dodgers?

Nobody is saying we are anywhere near as successful as the dodgers.

You misspelled the Astros. It is close, though.

[tdawg87]

Just now, Sean-Regan said:

You misspelled the Astros. It is close, though.

It's not, actually. The Astros don't have nearly the farm system the Dodgers do.

[tdawg87]

Just now, RBM said:

Yeah, 2017 was really solid at the top with Adell and Canning but it shouldn't really excuse him for 2016 and Matt Thaiss. He had 9 months on the job before he made that pick.

As IP said, he made that pick so he could get Marsh. In the end, it will likely be worth it.

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 minutes ago, RBM said:

So for you, when will it be time to hold Eppler accountable. If not this coming season like me, then when?

Honestly, it will be years from now long after hes gone.

As ugly as its been, the reality is some of you are expecting miracles. Theres a difference in seeing no mistakes eppler made, and not looking at the situation he came into.

He had to fix (or try) an MLB team with little talent outside of trout, no pitching (none), and a bloated payroll. (Everyone seems to forget last year was our first season not paying hamilton 25 mill a year....).

He had nothing in the minors to call up, or trade. And he knew he had houston in front, with no way of catching them any time soon.

So with no money or anything to trade, he had to keep the mlb team afloat, and build a farm from "the worst ive ever seen" per most pundits.

How do you do that, exactly? Especially in 4 years?

Epplers era will simply be a foundation for the next GM. 

Eppler and ausmus are being blamed like sosh used to... 

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, Sean-Regan said:

Based on memory? Adell and Canning. Then Adams and Jackson the next year.

Exactly.... Pointing to the draft undertaken with the previous regime's ppl is silly.  Different people, diff priorities since then.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, RBM said:

I think if Eppler signs Cole and Strasburg he gets a three year contract.

If he signs one of them?

[Pancake Bear]

3 minutes ago, RBM said:

Yeah, 2017 was really solid at the top with Adell and Canning but it shouldn't really excuse him for 2016 and Matt Thaiss. He had 9 months on the job before he made that pick.

 Over his first three drafts, Eppler's top 6 picks: Adell, Canning, Marsh, Jackson, Adams, and Thaiss. The worst of those looks like Thaiss, and he looks like at worst a fringe major leaguer. Everyone misses on picks - even top 5 picks. So far, Eppler's picks have turned out okay despite not having a high 1st round pick. 

3 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

It's not, actually. The Astros don't have nearly the farm system the Dodgers do.

Still haven't won it all and doesn't look like that'll change this year. Kershaw isn't getting any better.

[tdawg87]

Just now, Sean-Regan said:

 Still haven't won it all and doesn't look like that'll change this year. Kershaw isn't getting any better.

Well yeah, but that doesn't really matter. The playoffs are an absolute crapshoot.

[ten ocho recon scout]

8 minutes ago, RBM said:

I think if Eppler signs Cole and Strasburg he gets a three year contract.

But like Strad said, what if one or both get hurt? Turn into CJ wilson?

What if both are studs, but trout gets hurt?

Should he get extended for locking up trout for life?

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, RBM said:

Yeah, 2017 was really solid at the top with Adell and Canning but it shouldn't really excuse him for 2016 and Matt Thaiss. He had 9 months on the job before he made that pick.

Jesus Christ dude I mean this as politely as possible but you're speaking from a position of absolute ignorance here..   

How much actual live non professional baseball was played in those 9 months after he was hired.... 3 months?    The NCAA BB season typically starts in mid to late Feb...  The draft is in June -- do the math.   How much time do you think he had to install his people, establish the sorts of players they want to identify and then actually find them?   It's not like he was Bill Stoneman who came into the job and immediately installed what had been the Expos scouting department in place complete with a draft strategy decades in the making.  

Eppler unlike Dipoto didn't come in firing everyone, he spent that first year working with the people on hand to find the ones that could be a part of what he was doing.  There is a lot more to altering a franchise's philosophy than showing up and declaring yourself the new sheriff in town.

You're frustrated, that's fine but you are smarter than this.

[Pancake Bear]

5 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Honestly, it will be years from now long after hes gone.

As ugly as its been, the reality is some of you are expecting miracles. Theres a difference in seeing no mistakes eppler made, and not looking at the situation he came into.

He had to fix (or try) an MLB team with little talent outside of trout, no pitching (none), and a bloated payroll. (Everyone seems to forget last year was our first season not paying hamilton 25 mill a year....).

He had nothing in the minors to call up, or trade. And he knew he had houston in front, with no way of catching them any time soon.

So with no money or anything to trade, he had to keep the mlb team afloat, and build a farm from "the worst ive ever seen" per most pundits.

How do you do that, exactly? Especially in 4 years?

Epplers era will simply be a foundation for the next GM. 

Eppler and ausmus are being blamed like sosh used to... 

I'm not going to say Eppler's been perfect. He's made errors, but they've largely been extremely short term ones that don't cripple us going forward. This should be appreciated.

But it just feels like every single negative poster here doesn't grasp just how much of a hole Dipoto (and Arte, to whatever extent he stupidly enabled Dipoto) put us in. The fact that the Astros have (arguably) the best organization (at least top 2) in  baseball doesn't help. It just means there is a much bigger hole to climb out of to contend. 

So whenever I see people complaining about how bad things are, I just roll my eyes. Unless you grasp the long term effects of how Jerry screwed us over, you shouldn't even be commenting on the current situation. Most people apparently don't. 

I don't expect miracles. I really hope we contend next season, but I think there's a reasonable shot that we just miss a WC spot or get swept like 2014 again. I'm not putting that on Eppler. I'm putting that on Arte and Jerry.

[Pancake Bear]

7 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Well yeah, but that doesn't really matter. The playoffs are an absolute crapshoot.

Please. The Astros have a better offense and better pitching. That was true in 2017 also. It was probably true in 2018 also, but the Stros blew it that year. Don't think that happens again this season. 

The difference is that the Astros have been smarter about trading and shoring up weaknesses. The Dodgers have paid up for guys like Darvish and Machado who didn't get it done. They've hoarded up their prospects, which is why they're in better shape there than Houston, but they haven't put themselves in a position to win. 

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

Please. The Astros have a better offense and better pitching. That was true in 2017 also. It was probably true in 2018 also, but the Stros blew it that year. Don't think that happens again this season. 

The difference is that the Astros have been smarter about trading and shoring up weaknesses. The Dodgers have paid up for guys like Darvish and Machado who didn't get it done. They've hoarded up their prospects, which is why they're in better shape there than Houston, but they haven't put themselves in a position to win. 

How have they not put themselves in a position to win? They've literally made the WS two straight years, and are easily the favorite to make it again. 

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, RBM said:

I am and I am.

I got too hung up with the 2016 draft when I saw both Lux and Smith were drafted after Thaiss. Pissed me off.

LOL -- fair enough.

I think given everything that's happened everyone is allowed to fire off a few rants.

[Pancake Bear]

8 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

How have they not put themselves in a position to win? They've literally made the WS two straight years, and are easily the favorite to make it again. 

"Please. The Astros have a better offense and better pitching. That was true in 2017 also. It was probably true in 2018 also, but the Stros blew it that year. Don't think that happens again this season. 

The difference is that the Astros have been smarter about trading and shoring up weaknesses. The Dodgers have paid up for guys like Darvish and Machado who didn't get it done. They've hoarded up their prospects, which is why they're in better shape there than Houston, but they haven't put themselves in a position to win. "

tl;dr: The Astros are at present the better team. This is indisputable. Could the Dodgers pull it off? Sure, but they haven't exactly got a great record in important games. The Astros have three aces (no, amazingly, I'm not misusing that word) and a better lineup. Short of a miracle, the Dodgers will come short again. They're more likely to miss the WS than win it this season.

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

"Please. The Astros have a better offense and better pitching. That was true in 2017 also. It was probably true in 2018 also, but the Stros blew it that year. Don't think that happens again this season. 

The difference is that the Astros have been smarter about trading and shoring up weaknesses. The Dodgers have paid up for guys like Darvish and Machado who didn't get it done. They've hoarded up their prospects, which is why they're in better shape there than Houston, but they haven't put themselves in a position to win. "

tl;dr: The Astros are at present the better team. This is indisputable. Could the Dodgers pull it off? Sure, but they haven't exactly got a great record in important games. The Astros have three aces (no, amazingly, I'm not misusing that word) and a better lineup. Short of a miracle, the Dodgers will come short again. They're more likely to miss the WS than win it this season.

So you are someone who believes teams on paper are going to make it all the way like in the NBA. Well there's no convincing you otherwise. Oh well.

[Pancake Bear]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

So you are someone who believes teams on paper are going to make it all the way like in the NBA. Well there's no convincing you otherwise. Oh well.

I'm saying that based on probability, they have a higher chance of not making the WS than of winning it. The opposite is true for the Astros. It would be an upset if they don't win the whole thing this year. 

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, RBM said:

OK but this did not happen. Marsh was signed for his exact second round slotting bonus of $1,073,300. He did not get more. And both Matt Thaiss and Will Smith signed for less than their first round slotting bonus so I don't see how picking Smith instead of Thaiss would have affected our signing of Marsh.

The back issue came up after Marsh was drafted and gave the Angels negotiating leverage, if I recall.