Ken Rosenthal: No more excuses for Eppler

[Chuck]

He's got this offseason to build a championship caliber club around Mike Trout.

 

[Stradling]

Sure, if he can sign two VERY high end arms and Arte opens up the check book to do so then yea.  If Arte won’t and if Cole chooses to stay in Houston, then sure fire Eppler.  Most GMs can’t do what he has done, given what he was left with.  What if he signs Cole and whoever the next best guy is and Cole goes down with an injury and we aren’t a Championship caliber team, should he still be fired?  There is just too much going on to have some blanket statement like, “he’s gone if they aren’t a championship team”.  What if Trout goes down next year?  What if the Dodgers lose in the World Series and they say, “fuck it” and give Cole $40 million a year.  Should Eppler offer $41 million a year?  This is a rebuild, it takes years to accomplish.  

[Vlad27Trout27]

next year is probably the biggest year for Eppler. Cole a must sign, while we also have our top 2 prospects on the cusp.....time to put the everything all there.

[mulwin444]

11 minutes ago, Baghdad Strad said:

Sure, if he can sign two VERY high end arms and Arte opens up the check book to do so then yea.  If Arte won’t and if Cole chooses to stay in Houston, then sure fire Eppler.  Most GMs can’t do what he has done, given what he was left with.  What if he signs Cole and whoever the next best guy is and Cole goes down with an injury and we aren’t a Championship caliber team, should he still be fired?  There is just too much going on to have some blanket statement like, “he’s gone if they aren’t a championship team”.  What if Trout goes down next year?  What if the Dodgers lose in the World Series and they say, “F*ck it” and give Cole $40 million a year.  Should Eppler offer $41 million a year?  This is a rebuild, it takes years to accomplish.  

Yep...it's an article meant to get clicks and writer's like Rosenthal make a career out of telling front offices what they should do and are often wrong in the process.  

In Eppler's case, fair or not, there needs to be some movement at the MLB level if only for superficial reasons despite the growth of the organization in general.  He has the offensive pieces in place and, between Buttrey, Robles, Bedrosian, and Middleton, he has the foundation of a solid BP...his mission is clear at this point - he needs starters.

Cole is the priority but another mid-level arm and a trade likely need to happen - three arms is the goal leaving a 4-6 of Ohtani, Heaney, and Canning  

[Inside Pitch]

29 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

He's got this offseason to build a championship caliber club around Mike Trout.

 

That's where I am too -- he's got everything in place, now he needs those arms...   This is as much on Arte as it is Eppler.   People have been patient, waited on the farm to be where it could help and we are there.   

[DCAngelsFan]

13 minutes ago, Baghdad Strad said:

Sure, if he can sign two VERY high end arms and Arte opens up the check book to do so then yea.  If Arte won’t and if Cole chooses to stay in Houston, then sure fire Eppler.  Most GMs can’t do what he has done, given what he was left with.  What if he signs Cole and whoever the next best guy is and Cole goes down with an injury and we aren’t a Championship caliber team, should he still be fired?  There is just too much going on to have some blanket statement like, “he’s gone if they aren’t a championship team”.  What if Trout goes down next year?  What if the Dodgers lose in the World Series and they say, “F*ck it” and give Cole $40 million a year.  Should Eppler offer $41 million a year?  This is a rebuild, it takes years to accomplish.  

Exactly.  As for this off-season, we depend on signing someone like Cole - what if Cole dreams of being a Yankee and signs with them?  Would that be Eppler's failing?

Pitching needs to be built from within - in drafting/signing (internationals), development, and/or trading for them.  And unless you have a few top-5 picks, there are no guarantees you'll be able to draft those ace-caliber pitchers.   That takes a lot of skill and vast quantities of good luck.  

It's pretty freakin' hard to outsmart 29 other GM's.  

And that's the *real* point - the question isn't whether you fire Eppler for failing to build a championship team - it's "can you replace him with someone who's better at the job?"  

If so, fire him.  But be sure you're not hiring DiPoto Pt 2 - we already chose DiPoto over Eppler once, to our regret.

 

[wopphil]

You get the sense everyone knows this is the last year the team can rebuild, and they must get competitive starting in 2020. Assuming the organization in fact believes that, this will be a huge offseason for the team.

[Inside Pitch]

25 minutes ago, Baghdad Strad said:

Sure, if he can sign two VERY high end arms and Arte opens up the check book to do so then yea.  If Arte won’t and if Cole chooses to stay in Houston, then sure fire Eppler.  Most GMs can’t do what he has done, given what he was left with.  What if he signs Cole and whoever the next best guy is and Cole goes down with an injury and we aren’t a Championship caliber team, should he still be fired?  There is just too much going on to have some blanket statement like, “he’s gone if they aren’t a championship team”.  What if Trout goes down next year?  What if the Dodgers lose in the World Series and they say, “fuck it” and give Cole $40 million a year.  Should Eppler offer $41 million a year?  This is a rebuild, it takes years to accomplish.  

I think the point is that the Angels are no longer a mess at multiple spots -- they have finally reached the point where the issue is ONE thing and it needs to be addressed..   

The have an issue with offense at catcher but the pen is fine when not overused, the bench figures to be pretty deep albeit somewhat untested, and the farm system is in place to supply talent.  This is what they worked for, now it's time to put the cherry on top and finish the job.  That doesn't mean they need to win it all, but they need to be in position to actually challenge and not just compete next year.  Injuries are obviously the big unknown but there is no question the answer this offseason is to add pitching.

He needs to do that, period.

[angelsnationtalk]

I think it's a fair and honest statement by Rosenthal. As much as we don't want to hear it, Eppler is now on the clock. We've had the time to rebuild and we're now just about past that. It's time for the Angels to be the team of the 2020's and make consecutive runs like the Dodgers. I'd expect a strong WC push for 2020 then 2021 we start making division runs. Division should be ours from 2022-2025. 

We do need Cole as a solid #1 and then another #2 or #3 guy behind him. 

We have to money for Cole and another player. Like i've been saying all along once 2022 rolls around and Pujols is off the list with prospects offsetting the payroll the Angels can be a dangerous team. We can still be pretty good as soon as next year. 

We finally will have an offseason to look forward too. 

[angelsnationtalk]

9 minutes ago, DCAngelsFan said:

Exactly.  As for this off-season, we depend on signing someone like Cole - what if Cole dreams of being a Yankee and signs with them?  Would that be Eppler's failing?

Pitching needs to be built from within - in drafting/signing (internationals), development, and/or trading for them.  And unless you have a few top-5 picks, there are no guarantees you'll be able to draft those ace-caliber pitchers.   That takes a lot of skill and vast quantities of good luck.  

It's pretty freakin' hard to outsmart 29 other GM's.  

And that's the *real* point - the question isn't whether you fire Eppler for failing to build a championship team - it's "can you replace him with someone who's better at the job?"  

If so, fire him.  But be sure you're not hiring DiPoto Pt 2 - we already chose DiPoto over Eppler once, to our regret.

 

Harper always wanted to be a Yankee but it didn't work out. I worry more about players not wanting to play near home anymore. As Trout hinted that he likes his "work" being away from home. It's less distractions and people aren't always asking for tickets and free stuff. 

[mmc]

Rosenthal is arguably the best in the business.  Hilarious to see people discredit this

[Chuck]

17 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

That's where I am too -- he's got everything in place, now he needs those arms...   This is as much on Arte as it is Eppler.   People have been patient, waited on the farm to be where it could help and we are there.   

[angelsnationtalk]

7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I think the point is that the Angels are no longer a mess at multiple spots -- they have finally reached the point where the issue is ONE thing and it needs to be addressed..   

The have an issue with offense at catcher but the pen is fine when not overused, the bench figures to be pretty deep albeit somewhat untested, and the farm system is in place to supply talent.  This is what they worked for, now it's time to put the cherry on top and finish the job.  That doesn't mean they need to win it all, but they need to be in position to actually challenge and not just compete next year.  Injuries are obviously the big unknown but there is no question the answer this offseason is to add pitching.

He needs to do that, period.

Which brings us to two points:

1: We need to find our way into the playoff picture next year. (likely WildCard spot).

2: We need to sign/acquire 2 solid pitchers this offseason in the event of injury. (preferably a #1 and #2 guy)

[Stradling]

Just now, mymerlincat said:

Rosenthal is arguably the best in the business.  Hilarious to see people discredit this

I’m discrediting the belief that Eppler should be fired because a sports writer says so.  I’m discrediting the belief Eppler should be fired if he doesn’t build a championship caliber team this off season because a fan says so.  There are too many variables.  

[Chuck]

17 minutes ago, wopphil said:

You get the sense everyone knows this is the last year the team can rebuild, and they must get competitive starting in 2020. Assuming the organization in fact believes that, this will be a huge offseason for the team.

Yup

[Chuck]

Just now, Baghdad Strad said:

I’m discrediting the belief that Eppler should be fired because a sports writer says so.  I’m discrediting the belief Eppler should be fired if he doesn’t build a championship caliber team this off season because a fan says so.  There are too many variables.  

He won't be fired, he just won't be given another contract as he's paid through just 2020. 

[Chuck]

14 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I think the point is that the Angels are no longer a mess at multiple spots -- they have finally reached the point where the issue is ONE thing and it needs to be addressed..   

The have an issue with offense at catcher but the pen is fine when not overused, the bench figures to be pretty deep albeit somewhat untested, and the farm system is in place to supply talent.  This is what they worked for, now it's time to put the cherry on top and finish the job.  That doesn't mean they need to win it all, but they need to be in position to actually challenge and not just compete next year.  Injuries are obviously the big unknown but there is no question the answer this offseason is to add pitching.

He needs to do that, period.

Bingo! 

[angelsnationtalk]

18 minutes ago, wopphil said:

You get the sense everyone knows this is the last year the team can rebuild, and they must get competitive starting in 2020. Assuming the organization in fact believes that, this will be a huge offseason for the team.

I also think once they figure out where the team is going in terms of stadium deal will help as well. As strange as it sounds, I think it will spark a fire under them

[Inside Pitch]

I've said this multiple times..   But if the Angels make Cole the sole focus and wait on him allowing other pitchers to go elsewhere -- then they got played and Eppler dropped the ball.   They need to sign someone upper tier and have him locked up then focus on Cole.   If ever there was an off-season where Arte needed to just say "F-it" and throw some money, even risky money it's this one.

Ive never been an Arte needs to spend guy, I've never called for crazy FA signings and am particularly critical of going ape-shit on FA SPs but, they are in a situation where they absolutely need to roll the dice and acquire SPs.   Yeah they can dip into their farm and trade for a guy but despite the gains they really arent deep enough to blow their wad yet.

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, Baghdad Strad said:

I’m discrediting the belief that Eppler should be fired because a sports writer says so.  I’m discrediting the belief Eppler should be fired if he doesn’t build a championship caliber team this off season because a fan says so.  There are too many variables.  

I dont think Rosenthal actually said that -- he's mostly saying that everything is in place.  It's not critical of him, so much as it's basically saying -- it's time.

[angelsnationtalk]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I've said this multiple times..   But if the Angels make Cole the sole focus and wait on him allowing other pitchers to go elsewhere -- then they got played and Eppler dropped the ball.   They need to sign someone upper tier and have him locked up then focus on Cole.   If ever there was an off-season where Arte needed to just say "F-it" and throw some money, even risky money it's this one.

Ive never been an Arte needs to spend guy, I've never called for crazy FA signings and am particularly critical of going ape-shit on FA SPs but, they are in a situation where they absolutely need to roll the dice and acquire SPs.   Yeah they can dip into their farm and trade for a guy but despite the gains they really arent deep enough to blow their wad yet.

I don't think Cole will wait. We saw what happened last offseason so I feel like if Cole sees an offer he likes then he's good. Players this offseason likely want it over and done with.

But I do agree they should throw some money this offseason. 

[Chuck]

11 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Eppler is now on the clock.

Without a doubt. 

Eppler gets a lot of credit for rebuilding the farm, but let's face it, the farm was dogshit when he got here so there's only one way to go after some good draft picks because of shitty seasons and that's up. 

Eppler gets kudos for picking up low cost relief pitchers via FA and trades, his trade for Simmons and working some magic to convince Ohtani to sign and Trout to stay, but at the end of the day results matter. 

If you don't win as a GM, you don't stick around. Eppler's questionable FA signings and lack of on the field results to this point are on him. If he fucks up another offseason when there's literally so many gems of arms out there, then Eppler needs to go, and perhaps Arte needs to reevaluate what he wants out of the Angels as an owner. Does he want to win and build around Trout, or does he just want to refuel his yacht and make a profit off that FSW tv deal and anything else he gets off tickets and advertising. 

[Chuck]

8 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I've said this multiple times..   But if the Angels make Cole the sole focus and wait on him allowing other pitchers to go elsewhere -- then they got played and Eppler dropped the ball.   They need to sign someone upper tier and have him locked up then focus on Cole.   If ever there was an off-season where Arte needed to just say "F-it" and throw some money, even risky money it's this one.

Ive never been an Arte needs to spend guy, I've never called for crazy FA signings and am particularly critical of going ape-shit on FA SPs but, they are in a situation where they absolutely need to roll the dice and acquire SPs.   Yeah they can dip into their farm and trade for a guy but despite the gains they really arent deep enough to blow their wad yet.

You tell Cole he's there priority and they'll wait it out for him, but at the same time you go out and get a #2 and #3 guy who can give you some solid innings. 

This rotation needs to pencil Ohtani in at #3 and Heaney at #4 IMO and land a solid #2 and a guy like Cole to headline the rotation. Let Canning, Sandoval, Barria, Suarez and some other young kid battle it out for the 5th spot. 

Anything less than the above and it's a failure IMO. It has been a long time since this club has had a good rotation, let alone a decent one. 

There's no more excuses left. Let's see some facking results. 

[Second Base]

I sort of understand why Eppler did a soft rebuild now. The Angels could've undergone a total rebuild when he was hired because Dipoto and Reagins left this place a mess. But Eppler instead choose to preserve and add to the foundation so he had something concrete to build on. 

Once the foundation was set, in order to ensure the long term success of the team, he had to rebuild the farm system with upside. 

This soft rebuild has resulted in a series of mediocre teams, but a long term bill of health for the team.

But I agree, time has run out on Eppler to build a winner. He set his foundation in Trout, Pujols, Simmons, and Ohtani. He has the farm system beginning to impact the major league team in Canning, Barria, Suarez, Sandoval, Rengifo, Fletcher, Thaiss, Ward and Walsh. Adell and Marsh are legitimately going to be so impactful that they too become part of the foundation of this team, replacing the aging Simmons and Pujols.

Now all that's left is, he has to win now. Rebuilding the entire organization was the hard part. Now it must manifest itself in success.

That's going to require some major expenditures on pitching. Corbin was exactly what they needed last year but he lost out on that. Now he needs to spend the money to acquire Cole, plus two other pitchers. But like clockwork, the money to make these acquisitions just happens to be coming availabkr, almost like it was planned.

But in order to win, we're going to need Ohtani to stay healthy and pick like an ace, Cole to pitch like an ace, the other two acquisitions to pick toward the middle of the rotation, Canning to take a step forward, and Heaney to stay on the mound for 180 innings to save this bullpen. The other guys, Suarez, Barria and Sandoval just need to give them depth. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Second Base

[angelsnationtalk]

10 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Without a doubt. 

Eppler gets a lot of credit for rebuilding the farm, but let's face it, the farm was dogshit when he got here so there's only one way to go after some good draft picks because of shitty seasons and that's up. 

Eppler gets kudos for picking up low cost relief pitchers via FA and trades, his trade for Simmons and working some magic to convince Ohtani to sign and Trout to stay, but at the end of the day results matter. 

If you don't win as a GM, you don't stick around. Eppler's questionable FA signings and lack of on the field results to this point are on him. If he fucks up another offseason when there's literally so many gems of arms out there, then Eppler needs to go, and perhaps Arte needs to reevaluate what he wants out of the Angels as an owner. Does he want to win and build around Trout, or does he just want to refuel his yacht and make a profit off that FSW tv deal and anything else he gets off tickets and advertising. 

You couldn't have said this any better. And this is 100% honest and true. At the end of the day it only matter if we are playing October baseball. Keep in mind, we haven't won a playoff game in 10 years since 2009. I hope Arte stays in Anaheim by either updating of building a new stadium in the current area and the Angels and city of Anaheim make a deal to turn the area into an LA Live type place and the revenue skyrockets. I want a drastic change outside and inside the ballpark.