Is Calhoun the starting Rf next year?

[Glen]

8 hours ago, disarcina said:

and - big question mark -- will Ohtani return to the mound next year?

 

No, he won't.

[Blarg]

Harper is wildly I consistent in the NL. I don't think he translates to the AL West very well. 

I'd much rather have Trout/Simmons on an extension than Harper/Simmons. 

If possible Trout/Simmins/Machado would be preferable as a long term since I believe Adell is going to rake when he gets to the majors. 

That would be a fantasy lineup that I'm not sure the money can be worked out without the big three making salary concessions to play together. It's happened in the NBA but I've never seen the same in MLB. 

[Dtwncbad]

Trout, Simmons, Machado, Ohtani, and Adell all in the same lineup.

Yes please.

[totdprods]

The key thing to remember in Harper vs. Machado is that either will eat up virtually all remaining salary, so we're left with internal/cheap options for the infield, rotation, catcher, and bullpen.

If you go with Harper, you can rely on Ward, Thaiss, Fletcher, Rengifo, Jones to settle in the infield and bench, and you can trade Adell or Marsh for pitching help.

If you go with Machado, you can keep Calhoun and eventually Adell/Marsh in RF, but have to turn to Rengifo, Fletcher, Ward, Thaiss, Jones for pitching help. 

Of those two options, I think I'd rather roll the dice on the Harper route, use OF prospects to land a SP, and hope the young infielders round out the team.
Adell + one Top 10 prospect + one other lower-level prospect would bring in a much better SP than any other 3-4 Top 10 prospects, and in this case, saving as many prospect as possible would be better for the club's payroll.

[Dtwncbad]

31 minutes ago, totdprods said:

The key thing to remember in Harper vs. Machado is that either will eat up virtually all remaining salary, so we're left with internal/cheap options for the infield, rotation, catcher, and bullpen.

If you go with Harper, you can rely on Ward, Thaiss, Fletcher, Rengifo, Jones to settle in the infield and bench, and you can trade Adell or Marsh for pitching help.

If you go with Machado, you can keep Calhoun and eventually Adell/Marsh in RF, but have to turn to Rengifo, Fletcher, Ward, Thaiss, Jones for pitching help. 

Of those two options, I think I'd rather roll the dice on the Harper route, use OF prospects to land a SP, and hope the young infielders round out the team.
Adell + one Top 10 prospect + one other lower-level prospect would bring in a much better SP than any other 3-4 Top 10 prospects, and in this case, saving as many prospect as possible would be better for the club's payroll.

And if you DON'T land Harper or Machado  (I prefer Machado), the Angels will be left with internal or cheap options for all the positions you list, except without adding that stud bat.

[Dtwncbad]

59 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Trout, Simmons, Machado, Ohtani, and Adell all in the same lineup.

Yes please.

I completely forgot one more huge plus for that potential 2021 lineup.  .that Pujols will certainly be coming to Spring Training in 2021 in the best shape of his life.

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

And if you DON'T land Harper or Machado  (I prefer Machado), the Angels will be left with internal or cheap options for all the positions you list, except without adding that stud bat.

And also a lot of money to address needs and playing time for prospects, which is also an acceptable route. 

I still think '19 is going to be more of a transition year into the next generation of talent, with a few smaller name players and maybe one mid-level name brought in.. 

I just can't see Eppler doing a complete 180, signing Machado/Harper, trading top prospects away, and going for it with a rookie manager and three teams ahead of them. It'd be pretty ballsy and go against the grain of what he's been working to for the last three years. But stranger things have happened, and have happened here many times.

If they're really going for it...really, truly want to win before Trout walks, then yes, signing Harper or Machado and dealing a handful of prospects away for a SP is the way to go. 

If they're not too concerned with Trout walking or are confident he will stay regardless of the club's offseason moves, I expect a few minor upgrades to get them into at least the WC race again - a pen upgrade, a bat, a starter - but without any major $$$ commitments or significant prospects dealt. 

If they're building for the future, then they may not make any moves at all, play the youth as much as possible in 2019, let the current vets play out their worth, and then gear up for the Adell Years - with or without Mike - and perhaps even sell midseason or in 2020.

[Dtwncbad]

21 minutes ago, totdprods said:

And also a lot of money to address needs and playing time for prospects, which is also an acceptable route. 

I still think '19 is going to be more of a transition year into the next generation of talent, with a few smaller name players and maybe one mid-level name brought in.. 

I just can't see Eppler doing a complete 180, signing Machado/Harper, trading top prospects away, and going for it with a rookie manager and three teams ahead of them. It'd be pretty ballsy and go against the grain of what he's been working to for the last three years. But stranger things have happened, and have happened here many times.

If they're really going for it...really, truly want to win before Trout walks, then yes, signing Harper or Machado and dealing a handful of prospects away for a SP is the way to go. 

If they're not too concerned with Trout walking or are confident he will stay regardless of the club's offseason moves, I expect a few minor upgrades to get them into at least the WC race again - a pen upgrade, a bat, a starter - but without any major $$$ commitments or significant prospects dealt. 

If they're building for the future, then they may not make any moves at all, play the youth as much as possible in 2019, let the current vets play out their worth, and then gear up for the Adell Years - with or without Mike - and perhaps even sell midseason or in 2020.

This is another example of people thinking it is EITHER stay the course with the development of the youth OR sign big name free agents.

I don't think there is any rrason to choose between those two.

If you believe in the youth movement and want to continue it, what is the objection to signing Machado?  He is young, you don't have to trade prospects to get him and he doesn't cost a draft pick.

Why do people automatically tether trading prospects for other impact players to signing Machado?

How about sign Machado AND keep all your prospects?

Signing Machado doesn't mean "going for it in 2019" at the expense of future years.  It means improving the team for 2019 (certainly making 2019 more interesting, entertaining and competitive) at no expense to the youth movement project.

[floplag]

i think its funny how people are cherry picking the period that supports them.  Bottom line we has back to putting up Calhoun-esque numbers over the second half.   It didnt get him quite back to season averages but the second half was better than a lot of guys in the league. 

As to next year, well i think thats the 64 dollar question, and the largest reason why i would prefer going after Harper for example over Machado. 

Calhoun has value after the second half, combined with the gold glove, could be a solid trade chip.  Worst possible case scenario, you teach him to play 1B a la Erstad and he becomes the left side platoon with Albert.  

All that assume we make some power moves, which is yet to be proven.  I see the off season in 1 ways, they either go bold in an effort to retain Trout, or they go bargain hunting and prepare for life after Trout.   I really dont see a choice C for this franchise that makes any real sense.   

I suspect that if he IS our opening day RF then one of 2 things had to have happened, we either went bold somewhere else, or we basically decided to pass on '19.

[Barrett]

11 minutes ago, floplag said:

i think its funny how people are cherry picking the period that supports them.  Bottom line we has back to putting up Calhoun-esque numbers over the second half.   It didnt get him quite back to season averages but the second half was better than a lot of guys in the league. 

As to next year, well i think thats the 64 dollar question, and the largest reason why i would prefer going after Harper for example over Machado. 

Calhoun has value after the second half, combined with the gold glove, could be a solid trade chip.  Worst possible case scenario, you teach him to play 1B a la Erstad and he becomes the left side platoon with Albert.  

All that assume we make some power moves, which is yet to be proven.  I see the off season in 1 ways, they either go bold in an effort to retain Trout, or they go bargain hunting and prepare for life after Trout.   I really dont see a choice C for this franchise that makes any real sense.   

I suspect that if he IS our opening day RF then one of 2 things had to have happened, we either went bold somewhere else, or we basically decided to pass on '19.

I agree. And if they pass on '19 what is that saying to Trout and their fans? 

[Mark68]

14 hours ago, totdprods said:

It'd be totally bonkers, and I don't know exactly how I'd feel about it, but signing Harper makes as much sense as signing Hamilton did.

He has an OBP of .409 over the last four seasons. Put him in front of Trout and Ohtani and you have arguably the three best offensive players in baseball atop the '19 lineup - and Simmons and Upton.

Adell or Marsh could then easily turn into trade bait for a cost-controlled front-line starter...between one or two of them, plus any combo of Rengifo, Ward, Thaiss, Fletcher, maybe Suarez, I'd think you'd be in good shape to pry away someone like deGrom, Syndergaard, Taillon, Bumgarner.

Harper would come back to the West, Arte would have insane marketing clout/hype to push, his age keeps him in the future plans, and he's an in-house replacement should Trout walk. 

RF Harper, CF Trout, DH Ohtani, LF Upton, 1B Pujols, SS Simmons, 3B Cozart, C literally anyone, 2B Fletcher
SP: Frontline Trade, Skaggs, Shoemaker, Heaney, Barria

I would trade for deGrom or Syndergaard. No on Bumgarner. It looks like he's peaked.

[totdprods]

42 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

This is another example of people thinking it is EITHER stay the course with the development of the youth OR sign big name free agents.

I don't think there is any rrason to choose between those two.

If you believe in the youth movement and want to continue it, what is the objection to signing Machado?  He is young, you don't have to trade prospects to get him and he doesn't cost a draft pick.

Why do people automatically tether trading prospects for other impact players to signing Machado?

How about sign Machado AND keep all your prospects?

Signing Machado doesn't mean "going for it in 2019" at the expense of future years.  It means improving the team for 2019 (certainly making 2019 more interesting, entertaining and competitive) at no expense to the youth movement project.

Sure, that's totally an option...the reason I and others bring it up is because Harper/Machado will eat virtually all of the remaining payroll up. Meaning he's the only real improvement, as there isn't money available for catcher, SP, RP, 1B, bench...

So our '19 rotation would be Skaggs, Shoemaker, Heaney, Barria, Pena***
The '19 bullpen would be Parker, Anderson, Robles, Alvarez, Bedrosian, Jerez, and Buttrey***
The bench will be akin to Arcia, Fernandez, Blash, and Marte.***

In that scenario, how much does Harper/Machado help 2019 if they're the sole big improvement? 2020? 
We really need pitching help and I don't think Canning, Suarez, and Sandoval can be banked on as saviors.

***And yes, I fully realize that Eppler can still make other moves..a Chris Young-type for OF. Another Pennington type for IF. Maybe a trade for a Nolasco type. 
Just because the Angels sign a big-name doesn't mean they can't deal lesser prospects still, I get that. The point is, he can't sign or take on much salary, so the improvement cost will be relative to the prospect value he's willing to give up, at least if he wants to field a competitive team in 2019, which would be a big reason as to why he'd sigh Machado/Harper in the first place.

[Torridd]

17 hours ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

So what do we do?

1. Sign a one year gap guy? ( Jay, Jones, McCucthen, Martins)

2. Go all in, sign Harper or Pollock 

3. Trdae ( Who's available? )

4. Stick with Calhoun, and if he struggles than release the Blash ( Oh Help us), or Hermosillo.

 

My option is 1, we sign someone like Jay, than hope either Adell or Marsh is ready following year.  

I like #2. We need another solid offensive hitter. If Adell works out, we can always trade Upton.

[totdprods]

21 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

I would trade for deGrom or Syndergaard. No on Bumgarner. It looks like he's peaked.

I'd love to make a go at Jameson Taillon too. I doubt Pittsburgh would be willing, but if you're offering up prime prospects, it's worth kicking the tires. 

And they could always look at the next tier of younger, slightly controlled #2-#4 guys - Dylan Bundy, Sonny Gray, Zack Wheeler, Marcus Stroman, Jose Urena, Jake Junis, etc. with a package built around something like Suarez, Ward, etc.

[Torridd]

14 hours ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

The issue with trying to sign Harper is  it's going to cost us around 30 mil, which is the most we can spend this free agency. even if we trade Calhoun at most we get another 10 mil. which is not enough for us to add a Catcher, a Bp arm/ Closer and or another starter

 

Do we need a starter more or another hitter? Catcher and closer are lower on my list.

[Torridd]

13 hours ago, ScottT said:

Calhoun had a roller coaster season in 2017, too.   I think he can be an average hitter and an above average defender next year.  You definitely don't let his $11.5 million owed stand in the way of... anything, really... but with Adell seemingly not too far away.... I think it's likely we see Calhoun starting next season in RF.  The Angels have done worse at certain positions in recent years.  2-3 WAR players aren't sexy, but they can be useful.  

I don't think Calhoun is starting for us next year unless we got Machado or another powerhouse in another position. 

[Torridd]

13 hours ago, Dochalo said:

Calhoun is a placeholder at this point.  Adell can't get here quick enough.  Kole will come to spring in TBSOHL.  My guess is we'll grab a RHed OFer to platoon with him and act as insurance should he crap the bed early in the year.  

Guys.  let's be clear.  there is zero chance we sign Harper and it's my opinion that we absolutely shouldn't.  We won't because he's a Boras client, plays terrible defense, is decently inconsistent, and is going to cost a truck load of money.  If you're going to spend what it will take to sign him, then you're better off with Machado.  But that won't happen either.  Why?  Because I don't think there's a team that could house two 35+mil per year players on their roster and have enough left over to do what they need under the current CBA.  

Here's another way to look at it.  Let's say that a Trout extension doesn't negate the ability to sign Harper.  But Simmons needs an extension as well.  Likely for about 20-25mil per year.  People like to dream on Harper, but Simmons has been far more consistently valuable.  Even including Harper's aberration year of 10 WAR, Simmons still beats him by 3.4 WAR.  Andrelton isn't going to put up a 10 WAR season, but he's not going to put up a sub 2 WAR season either.  Which is what harper has done 3 times in the last 5 years.  

And here's what Arte means when he says 'the right player'.  What he actually means is the right player for the right situation.  If the current roster was short that one guy and bringing in that difference maker put us over the cap for a couple of years, then I think he'd spend the money.  That's not where we're at.  

I've said this on other threads.  Stay the course.  2019 will be another year where Eppler will fill out the roster to give the team a chance at a wild card spot if a lot goes right.  Now is not the time to go all in on one free agent as the final piece to the puzzle.  The puzzle is going to take a couple more years.  

We're rebuilding.  It's not the same kind of rebuild that other teams have gone through where they lose 100 games.  But it's a rebuild nonetheless.  Finishing below .500 4 times in the last 6 years is a rebuild.  We probably have have 3 90+ loss seasons in a row if Trout is human.  He just disguises what this has been.  

Don't get me wrong.  There's hope.  We're in a good place now vs. where we were three years ago.  But realistically, we're still 2-3 years away which makes a Trout extension the most important transaction this franchise will ever have to deal with.  Why?  Because Trout plus 2 avg players is the same as having 3 all stars.  

This terrible stretch to end the year doesn't change anything.  The plan is still the same.  It's not angelswin plan, but I would imagine Billy is smart enough to have expected this team to be exactly where they're at.  

2-3 years?? I can't abide that Eppler is thinking this way. I'm not saying we have to go all in, but 2-3 years means a whole lot of mediocre Angels baseball especially coupled with the last few years. This isn't about Trout wanting to win. What about just winning period? I don't think mediocrity is expected by the fans nor the owner. We don't have a small payroll. I agree we may be "rebuilding" but in a hopeful way (Ohtani, Upton, hoping the starters are healthy) and hoping we struck lightning. But I think we have to keep climbing. The Angels need someone big, albeit a starter or hitter, so I don't think just staying with Calhoun or making minor changes to the bullpen will cut it for this organization.    

[WeatherWonk]

51 minutes ago, floplag said:

i think its funny how people are cherry picking the period that supports them.  Bottom line we has back to putting up Calhoun-esque numbers over the second half.   It didnt get him quite back to season averages but the second half was better than a lot of guys in the league. 

As to next year, well i think thats the 64 dollar question, and the largest reason why i would prefer going after Harper for example over Machado. 

Calhoun has value after the second half, combined with the gold glove, could be a solid trade chip.  Worst possible case scenario, you teach him to play 1B a la Erstad and he becomes the left side platoon with Albert.  

All that assume we make some power moves, which is yet to be proven.  I see the off season in 1 ways, they either go bold in an effort to retain Trout, or they go bargain hunting and prepare for life after Trout.   I really dont see a choice C for this franchise that makes any real sense.   

I suspect that if he IS our opening day RF then one of 2 things had to have happened, we either went bold somewhere else, or we basically decided to pass on '19.

I could have agreed with all you said about Calhoun.............until his last 30 games. He has fallen off the cliff again. Kole has now hit below .250 in 8 of his last 12 months of play. Four of those months were below .200.

No organization who might consider trading for him, is going to know which Kole you will get, from month to month. I dont see him as a solid trade chip. He is striking out way too much.

[Torridd]

1 hour ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

We owe Calhoun over 10 million next year. He will probably hit 20 home runs this year despite the slumps and the DL stint. 

I never bet against players on their contract year, I think Calhoun should start in 2019.

Hopefully Adell is ready by 2020.

I don' t take that bet.

[floplag]

5 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

I could have agreed with all you said about Calhoun.............until his last 30 games. He has fallen off the cliff again. Kole has now hit below .250 in 8 of his last 12 months of play. Four of those months were below .200.

No organization who might consider trading for him, is going to know which Kole you will get, from month to month. I dont see him as a solid trade chip. He is striking out way too much.

The last 30 game dont negate the entire second half.  His overall numbers were crap, no question, but the second half wasnt after the changes.
For me i just see a slump.  

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Blarg said:

Harper is wildly I consistent in the NL. I don't think he translates to the AL West very well. 

I'd much rather have Trout/Simmons on an extension than Harper/Simmons. 

If possible Trout/Simmins/Machado would be preferable as a long term since I believe Adell is going to rake when he gets to the majors. 

That would be a fantasy lineup that I'm not sure the money can be worked out without the big three making salary concessions to play together. It's happened in the NBA but I've never seen the same in MLB. 

Wait a year and substitute Arenado, and 100% agree.   Would then mean going over tax threshold for only 2020-2021, and then Pujols falls off of the payroll.   Heck, they could even trade Upton after 2020 if Marsh is ready, and free up about half of Upton's salary for 2021-2022.   Upton is in his mid 30s by 2021.

That should then still avoid lost draft picks (other than 2nd rounder in June 2020) and lost int'l money. 

[Docwaukee]

25 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

This is another example of people thinking it is EITHER stay the course with the development of the youth OR sign big name free agents.

I don't think there is any rrason to choose between those two.

If you believe in the youth movement and want to continue it, what is the objection to signing Machado?  He is young, you don't have to trade prospects to get him and he doesn't cost a draft pick.

Why do people automatically tether trading prospects for other impact players to signing Machado?

How about sign Machado AND keep all your prospects?

Signing Machado doesn't mean "going for it in 2019" at the expense of future years.  It means improving the team for 2019 (certainly making 2019 more interesting, entertaining and competitive) at no expense to the youth movement project.

Your post is correct in many ways and I agree for the most part.  The big thing that you're failing to consider is the financial impact of adding a player at $30 mil per season.  

it can't do a couple of important things.  1. limit our ability to extend Trout.  2.  Limit our ability to extend Simmons.  3.  And probably most importantly, that if we do 1 and 2 while having Machado, limit our ability to supplement in other areas.  Those three players are likely going to cost nearly $100 mil per season.  Add upton to that and it's $120 mil for four position players.  

Leaving $80 mil for the rest of the team assuming payroll would be about $200 mil.  You could probably piece that together if everything goes right.  

But when has everything gone right.  What if upton sucks that year? What if Adell doesn't pan out as expected? What if the pitching staff continues to be decimated by injury?  

Point is, Machado is a go for move.  Are you confident that it's time to go for it?  I'm not.  But maybe you don't have the opportunity to get a Machado 3 yrs from now, so you make the move.  

But as and odds play, it feels premature.  

[Docwaukee]

42 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Sure, that's totally an option...the reason I and others bring it up is because Harper/Machado will eat virtually all of the remaining payroll up. Meaning he's the only real improvement, as there isn't money available for catcher, SP, RP, 1B, bench...

So our '19 rotation would be Skaggs, Shoemaker, Heaney, Barria, Pena***
The '19 bullpen would be Parker, Anderson, Robles, Alvarez, Bedrosian, Jerez, and Buttrey***
The bench will be akin to Arcia, Fernandez, Blash, and Marte.***

In that scenario, how much does Harper/Machado help 2019? 2020?

***And yes, I fully realize that Eppler can still make other moves..a Chris Young-type for OF. Another Pennington type for IF. Maybe a trade for a Nolasco type. 
Just because the Angels sign a big-name doesn't mean they can't deal lesser prospects still, I get that. The point is, he can't sign or take on much salary, so the improvement cost will be relative to the prospect value he's willing to give up, at least if he wants to field a competitive team in 2019, which would be a big reason as to why he'd sigh Machado/Harper in the first place.

If he signs Machado or Harper, I don't think it's because he's all in on 2019/20.  It's because he doesn't see an opportunity to get that level of player in the near future.  I just think it's so restrictive from a financial standpoint that we can't do it.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

If I’m going to “go for it,” I’d pay whatever the prospect price is for Realmuto. He is a one of kind player at a position the Angels have no one. 

Carry on....

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

If I’m going to “go for it,” I’d pay whatever the prospect price is for Realmuto. He is a one of kind player at a position the Angels have no one. 

Carry on....

honest opinion @Jeff Fletcher.  do you think this team is in a position to go all in for 2019 or 2020?