Is Calhoun the starting Rf next year?

[floplag]

11 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The Astros aren’t a lock to win 100 games forever, you know. 

Look at the Dodgers from 17 to 18? The Cubs from 16 to 17?

Keuchel could be gone. Morton could be gone. Verlander is going to be 36. Cole might revert to the Cole he’s been his whole career before this year. Bullpens are always up and down. Marwin could be gone. They don’t really have a catcher for next year. 

They have a core of Altuve-Correa-Springer-Bregman that you expect will all be above average, but the Angels have Trout-Ohtani-Simmons-Upton that should all be above average. 

Anyway, the point is you never know what will happen and I assume the Angels will be building the best team they can build and trying to win the division.

Agreed, my frustration is with those who seem intent on putting prospects over major league wins. 
I believe we can compete, injuries and in my view the bullpen derailed 18, we are not this bad.   We have some obvious spots that can be upgraded, i hope we make the right moves.

[floplag]

11 hours ago, Mark68 said:

And just because our pitchers haven't been bulletproof, injury free and perfect means that there are NO pitchers that fit that mold? Maybe not perfect, because pobody's nerfect.

Let's play a "what if" game. What if the Angels somehow were to play a single-elimination wild card game on the road? Who on our current roster would you want starting that game? Who do you have enough confidence in to get us that win in a must-win scenario? I know how I'd answer that: nobody. There is literally nobody on our current rotation that I trust enough to put them in that must-win game and know that we have a decent shot to win. 

I know you think getting a starting pitcher doesn't matter, because you've made that very clear. 

You are wrong. 

Much of the reason we're on a losing streak is because we don't have a starting pitcher that is good enough or who can pitch deep enough to shut down the opposition. We maybe had somebody like that in Ohtani, but unfortunately, he won't be pitching until 2020.

 

And yet in the assumption that an ace solves all you are assuming he would be.    We can agree to disagree.  You see an ace as the greatest need, i say to hades with that and build a bullet proof pen.  I dont think either one of us is right or wrong, but i do know recent teams that have had significant quality starters dint find the promised land due to bullpen issues, recent Dodger teams for example.  
The truth is likely in the middle, as is the case with most things, but money wise the pen can be solved for far less than your ace making it easier and more practical. 

[Mark68]

6 minutes ago, floplag said:

And yet in the assumption that an ace solves all you are assuming he would be.    We can agree to disagree.  You see an ace as the greatest need, i say to hades with that and build a bullet proof pen.  I dont think either one of us is right or wrong, but i do know recent teams that have had significant quality starters dint find the promised land due to bullpen issues, recent Dodger teams for example.  
The truth is likely in the middle, as is the case with most things, but money wise the pen can be solved for far less than your ace making it easier and more practical. 

The problem is, relief pitching is volatile. There is no guarantee of a bulletproof pen. None whatsoever.

There are certain relievers who you can count on pretty consistently from year to year, but that number can be counted on (maybe) all your fingers and toes. 

And if your 'pen is overworked because your rotation consistently fails to pitch more than 4-5 innings per start, even the reliable relievers can end up being unreliable because of overuse.

And I really don't want to see an "opener" or a "bullpen game" ever in the postseason. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

16 minutes ago, floplag said:

And yet in the assumption that an ace solves all you are assuming he would be.    We can agree to disagree.  You see an ace as the greatest need, i say to hades with that and build a bullet proof pen.  I dont think either one of us is right or wrong, but i do know recent teams that have had significant quality starters dint find the promised land due to bullpen issues, recent Dodger teams for example.  
The truth is likely in the middle, as is the case with most things, but money wise the pen can be solved for far less than your ace making it easier and more practical. 

How, specifically, would you do that?

(Also, I hit a button by accident and my browser started reading all your posts aloud and it was pretty funny.)

[mulwin444]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

How, specifically, would you do that?

(Also, I hit a button by accident and my browser started reading all your posts aloud and it was pretty funny.)

Having three run, or greater, leads going into the 7th inning every game 

[Blarg]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

How, specifically, would you do that?

(Also, I hit a button by accident and my browser started reading all your posts aloud and it was pretty funny.)

It would be even better if it was read in Christopher Walken's voice. But then, just about every post would be, including this. 

[beatlesrule]

11 hours ago, Tank said:

you're a smart guy and you know that it takes two to pull off a trade.  there could be 10 reasons why the angels didn't get him. or 25. or 40. or 2. there's no basis for thinking the angels could have had him but chose not to.

True but there were no reports that they even tried.

[Chuck]

Here are the available outfielders. Most of these guys are upgrades over Calhoun and we could probably get on a 1-2 year deal (until Adell is ready).

Left fielders
Michael Brantley (32 years old, 2.6 WAR)
Marwin Gonzalez (30, 1.3)
Curtis Granderson (38, 0.6)
Craig Gentry (35, 0.5)
Cameron Maybin (32, 0.4)
Matt Joyce (34, 0.1)
Gregor Blanco (35, -0.4)
Hunter Pence (36, -0.8)

Center fielders
Leonys Martin (31 years old, 2.5 WAR)
A.J. Pollock (31, 1.9)
Adam Jones (33, 0.6)
Rajai Davis (38, 0.3)
Austin Jackson (32, -0.3)

Right fielders
Bryce Harper (26 years old, 3.1 WAR)
Nick Markakis (35, 2.6)
Jason Heyward (29, 2.2) -- Can opt out of the five years and $106 million remaining on his contract.
Carlos Gonzalez (33, 1.9)
Andrew McCutchen (32, 1.8)
Jon Jay (33, 1.1)
Lonnie Chisenhall (30, 0.8)
Melky Cabrera (34, 0.4)
Jose Bautista (38, 0.4)
Carlos Gomez (33, -0.3)
Chris Young (35, -0.5)

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Mark68 said:

The problem is, relief pitching is volatile. There is no guarantee of a bulletproof pen. None whatsoever.

There are certain relievers who you can count on pretty consistently from year to year, but that number can be counted on (maybe) all your fingers and toes. 

And if your 'pen is overworked because your rotation consistently fails to pitch more than 4-5 innings per start, even the reliable relievers can end up being unreliable because of overuse.

And I really don't want to see an "opener" or a "bullpen game" ever in the postseason. 

There is no guarantee of ANY position, including your ace.   
I would rather go into any game knowing that if the starter doesnt have it there are guys behind him, rather than praying the starter goes 7+ and i dont have to go to the pen. 
Again we just see the game differently, i dont think either ones of us is more right or wrong, but my plan, and the reason i prefer it, is that it works every day, yours doesnt, unless you have 5 aces.

[floplag]

57 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

How, specifically, would you do that?

(Also, I hit a button by accident and my browser started reading all your posts aloud and it was pretty funny.)

Well i'll begin by saying we've made great strides in that area this year with acquisitions, i think this pen we have now will already be significantly improved. 

But, it needs an anchor in my opinion, a leader.  We need a Percival, KRod, type that noone wants to have to face, right now we dont have that.  We have a couple guys that could be that, but i dont think are there yet. I love what ive seen from Buttrey for example, that k rate is nice.

I dont know who yet, we dont know fully who might be available yet.  Kimbrel of course comes to mind but 13-15 mil for a reliever... that time may have passed even though its still better than 20-30 for a starter. . 

The bottom line for me is that we have limited resources, getting an ace likely means we get nothing else.  Getting a closer type would cost far less and leave some for other areas. 
Id love a top starter, dont misunderstand, i just dont see it as the #1 end all beat all some others do given our current roster and available resources. 

[Mark68]

10 minutes ago, floplag said:

There is no guarantee of ANY position, including your ace.   
I would rather go into any game knowing that if the starter doesnt have it there are guys behind him, rather than praying the starter goes 7+ and i dont have to go to the pen. 
Again we just see the game differently, i dont think either ones of us is more right or wrong, but my plan, and the reason i prefer it, is that it works every day, yours doesnt, unless you have 5 aces.

No plan works every day. 

The mantra of any battlefield commander is that your battle plan works perfectly until first contact with the enemy. 

I think mine has a good overall chance of success. It's less reliant on volatile bullpen arms, and it allows some flexibility in what we can do with pitchers who are coming back from injury. 

[Mark68]

Changing subjects (to 3B), it appears the Phillies would be willing to trade Maikel Franco this offseason. I've always liked the kid. He's arb-eligible for the first time this offseason, which means we'd still have 3 years of control.

He's cut down on his Ks and had a .780 OPS this year (105 OPS+). He's not sexy, but he would be an improvement who would be somewhat affordable for the next three years, and I don't think we'd have to give up all that much for him.

[Tank]

45 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

True but there were no reports that they even tried.

1. the angels don't typically broadcast how they work or what they're working on. we know this from many, many years of front office silence.

2. reports from the media are often far from accurate.

[Chuck]

Lots of upgrades for the Angels to fill IMO. 

3B, 2B, RF, C, SP and another RP would be nice. 

You don't need ANY signings or trades for fillers or backups. 

There's no way we go into 2019 with Fletcher, Ward and a Briceno/Arcia platoon at those positions, unless you sign a Machado to play 3B or Harper to play RF. Then you trade for a deGrom or Syndergaard. This team needs an ace pitcher. Barria, Skaggs, Heaney are nice 3-5 starters. This team needs a legit #1 and #2 in the rotation to compete IMO.

I'd like to see them give Rengifo the 2B job and let him lead off. His speed, OBP and bat give us a legit leadoff hitter IMO. Keep Fletcher to be the backup. 

So what do you do with 3B? Cozart and Ward are risky IMO. Cozart didn't look like the guy the season before we signed him, more like the career average guy some of us thought we were getting. Because of his stellar defense and his contract being so lite, he may be an easy guy to trade this offseason. 

[floplag]

34 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

No plan works every day. 

The mantra of any battlefield commander is that your battle plan works perfectly until first contact with the enemy. 

I think mine has a good overall chance of success. It's less reliant on volatile bullpen arms, and it allows some flexibility in what we can do with pitchers who are coming back from injury. 

Actually, a solid bullpen does, thats my whole point. 
Starters, even aces, are not compiling complete games these days, your going to need the pen for at least an inning or two even when you have your ace. 
I think you are a little to stuck on the whole "volatile pen:" thing, it isnt like aces are automatic either.  Starter can be just as iffy, so can hitters and literally every spot on the field. 
Even the great closers weve had had off nights, you just knew when Percy was going to choke one for example. 
You put so much into that ace, and hes off, then what do you do?  Granted it may not happen as often, but when it does its amplified significantly more. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

(Also, I hit a button by accident and my browser started reading all your posts aloud and it was pretty funny.)

I wish i could do that with AOs posts when hes pissed.

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

Lots of upgrades for the Angels to fill IMO. 

3B, 2B, RF, C, SP and another RP would be nice. 

You don't need ANY signings or trades for fillers or backups. 

There's no way we go into 2019 with Fletcher, Ward and a Briceno/Arcia platoon at those positions, unless you sign a Machado to play 3B or Harper to play RF. Then you trade for a deGrom or Syndergaard. This team needs an ace pitcher. Barria, Skaggs, Heaney are nice 3-5 starters. This team needs a legit #1 and #2 in the rotation to compete IMO.

I'd like to see them give Rengifo the 2B job and let him lead off. His speed, OBP and bat give us a legit leadoff hitter IMO. Keep Fletcher to be the backup. 

So what do you do with 3B? Cozart and Ward are risky IMO. Cozart didn't look like the guy the season before we signed him, more like the career average guy some of us thought we were getting. Because of his stellar defense and his contract being so lite, he may be an easy guy to trade this offseason. 

No one is going to want to trade for Cozart following a year where he was injured and looked like the player before his career year. His contract isn't bad, but it's not that light either. Personally, I'm optimistic he'll return and give us a .700-.750 OPS and very good defense. Nothing like his '17 season, but still league average, which we lacked all year at 2B and 3B. He'll be fine...for now. After this season, with only a year left on his contract, someone may bite or the Angels can relegate him to expensive super-sub.

Ward, should he not wind up part of a trade, should start the season at SLC and begin getting some occasional reps at LF, 1B, maybe even the occasional inning at 2B. A step further, maybe a year or two into the future if he's struggling, consider him exploring RP/back-up C - he has the arm. Worst case scenario, he carves out a utility role and replaces Cowart on the roster. 

If the team truly wants to 'go for it', I think the best course of action, within reasonable financial and prospect dealing constraints, is...
- sign Bryce for RF - shores up RF, lead-off, and most of the offense in one move
- trade Adell + one Top 10 + lower level for #1 SP - addresses the need for an ace and hopefully 180 innings
- ship Calhoun off for a vet RP to replace Johnson or a vet innings-eater in the mold of James Shields - clears some salary, checks off a pitching need fairly cheaply
- sign the other that isn't acquired in the above Calhoun deal - same, vet SP for rotation stability, vet RP to stabilize our numerous, optionable relievers
- sign a multi-positional vet bench player who hits lefties well - alleviate the need to rely on AAA prospects and depth, another small boost for offense

Doesn't decimate the farm, caps out payroll but doesn't destroy us with any terrible long-term deals (I imagine Bryce gets an opt-out or two), and they can always shift gears and sell this coming deadline, next offseason, or next deadline and prep for 2020.

[Second Base]

I think the Angels will be measured in their response to this season. Yes, they'll go for it, but they won't be sacrificing their 2020-2025 future for 2019.  They've got a solid 30 million or so to spend, and I think they'll spend wisely, but I also think we'll see shorter deals that won't require roster spots. 

For example, I can see the Angels signing Josh Donaldson to a three year, 45 million dollar deal.  Yeah that eats up about half of our available money, but it's a shorter deal.  If he proves too old or injured, or Ward surpasses him, or someone like Maitan or Jeremiah Jackson makes a huge jump and is ready in two years, the Angels won't be so burdened.

Then they'll clear some payroll space via trade or whatever else and go hard after Dallas Kuechel.  He's a ground ball pitcher and steady workhorse. 

So we'll see the Angels "go for it" by spending on two players, one a former MVP, the other a former Cy Young winner.  They may or may not be those anymore, but just in case they are, the Angels are in really good position. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Make Cowart a two way player. A late inning defensive replacement/relief pitcher... That way he doesn't need his bat as much and fills 2 spots on a roster... I'm only half serious by the way...

[totdprods]

9 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Make Cowart a two way player. A late inning defensive replacement/relief pitcher... That way he doesn't need his bat as much and fills 2 spots on a roster... I'm only half serious by the way...

I actually can see Cowart taking Marte's place next year as the out-of-options bench bat, and I could see them exploring the RP element now that they've employed it with Way and Walsh. Angels would sure have to upgrade other bats first, but if Cowart became the next Andrew Romine he could make the Opening Day roster.

I wonder if Cowart is against pitching...you'd think they would have tried him there in SLC before Walsh and Way, unless they were concerned he'd get hurt and it wasn't worth the risk since he's on the 40.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

4 hours ago, floplag said:

You see an ace as the greatest need, i say to hades with that and build a bullet proof pen.  I dont think either one of us is right or wrong, but i do know recent teams that have had significant quality starters dint find the promised land due to bullpen issues, recent Dodger teams for example.  

Last year the Astros won the WS with a strong starting rotation and a weak bullpen. BTW  I didn't say our biggest needs was an Ace. I said we need pitching, a corner IF, and possibly a catcher. I may have in one of my post said a TOR pitcher, which to me could be an Ace or a strong #2 type pitcher. But I wouldn't give any one position more weight than any other. We need them all...

[Second Base]

58 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I actually can see Cowart taking Marte's place next year as the out-of-options bench bat, and I could see them exploring the RP element now that they've employed it with Way and Walsh. Angels would sure have to upgrade other bats first, but if Cowart became the next Andrew Romine he could make the Opening Day roster.

I wonder if Cowart is against pitching...you'd think they would have tried him there in SLC before Walsh and Way, unless they were concerned he'd get hurt and it wasn't worth the risk since he's on the 40.

Most teams wanted to draft him as a pitcher.  Florida State was going to use him as a two-way player, as they did with Buster Posey.  After he fell flat beyond rookie ball, the team approached him about moving back to the mound, and he said no.  He had another bad year and he came to the Angels and told them he'd be open to it if they wanted.  The Angels for some reason told him that he should stick with hitting because it was what he was comfortable with for the time being.  Then Cowart had his breakout season, which led him into his current role, which is infielder and outfielder in AAA and the majors.

The whole pitching thing hasn't been brought up since then. 

Way and Walsh did not figure into the Angels depth chart which is why the team was more open to them giving this two-way thing a shot.  However, Cowart himself is on the depth chart and the team wanted to see if he'd make further adjustments this year and work his way into the second or third base role this year.  This was a legitimate possibility.  It didn't happen, in fact there was a fair bit of regression.

The logical part of me says the Angels will almost assuredly approach Cowart about a potential two-way role this winter.  However, I think if that were to actually occur, Cowart would probably be in the AFL honing those skills as Way and Walsh are.  There's also the off-chance that the Angels approached Cowart about it again, and he's been unwilling because his career beyond the Angels could still very much take place in the corner OF or as a utility infielder.  Or perhaps the Angels approached him and he is indeed going to try it out, but instead will spend the winter working at the spring training complex is more focused bullpen sessions. 

My best guess is, it isn't happening with Cowart.  Ohtani is a special talent, and it isn't that easy to do these two things individually.  Put yourself in Cowart's shoes.  If he commits himself to pitching, it's basically starting over again, and unless he fully commits, it's hard to foresee him being a success on the mound and at the plate, 

[Torridd]

On 9/24/2018 at 1:56 PM, Jeff Fletcher said:

I think they can make the playoffs in 2019.

What moves do you think would have to be made for that to come to fruition?

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Last year the Astros won the WS with a strong starting rotation and a weak bullpen. BTW  I didn't say our biggest needs was an Ace. I said we need pitching, a corner IF, and possibly a catcher. I may have in one of my post said a TOR pitcher, which to me could be an Ace or a strong #2 type pitcher. But I wouldn't give any one position more weight than any other. We need them all...

Only because they had a full rotation of strong starters and the bullpen was a topic of conversation thruout the playoffs as a concern.  We would not have that

[Stradling]

How many teams decide they are going to build a strong bullpen actually accomplish it, rather than how many teams happen to develop a strong bullpen because their own players emerge as dominant back of the pen options?  Our best bullpen was just about completely home grown with Percy, K-Rod and Shields.  And then you look at those three and you see two failed starters and one failed catcher.  The team is better off, in my opinion, of signing a veteran bullpen arm, hope Buttrey becomes something special and then mid season trade for an arm that is performing that year.  It might cost more in prospects, but you’d have to think it is the most responsible way to do it.