Is Calhoun the starting Rf next year?

[Docwaukee]

50 minutes ago, floplag said:

Thats best case scenario, not probable. 
Regarldess im still not playing for 2021 like most of you farm folks 

Flop - you're not playing for anything. It's going to be what it is whether you or I like it or not.  Us 'farm folk' are hopeful for next year as well.  But it's not about the farm.  It's about the current roster and the competition.  We're going to be better in 2019.  We could grab a wild card.  A division title is less likely but not totally off the table.  

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

We had 9/10 starters last season, how did that turn out. I don't have much faith in most of our pitchers. Skaggs maybe OK, maybe not. Heaney can be good but can also suck at times. Shoemaker is what he is. Barria is a good third/forth SP. Richards is gone, Tropeano was never healthy. Ohtani is not going to pitch next season. Our bullpen was awful so whoever doesn't make the rotation could pitch there.

We need 0ne solid TOR pitcher that can be counted on to take the ball on his turn every turn next season, that hasn't happened in 3 years running.

And what makes you think that one guy would be bullet proof injury free and perfect?    I mean weve had such luck in that regard i understand why you would believe that but... oh, wait. 
Ill take my changes with an upgraded lineup and the depth we have.  The only arm i want to talk about is a lock down bullpen piece. 
We see the game different philosophically, and thats fine, but i for one am not dumping my top chips for an area that isnt an obvious need 

[floplag]

Just now, Dochalo said:

Flop - you're not playing for anything. It's going to be what it is whether you or I like it or not.  Us 'farm folk' are hopeful for next year as well.  But it's not about the farm.  It's about the current roster and the competition.  We're going to be better in 2019.  We could grab a wild card.  A division title is less likely but not totally off the table.  

WE could be with the right moves.  Jesus 18 isnt over and you guys have already given up on 19.  I dont know what else to say, have fun with that i guess. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

WE could be with the right moves.  Jesus 18 isnt over and you guys have already given up on 19.  I dont know what else to say, have fun with that i guess. 

The Astros aren’t a lock to win 100 games forever, you know. 

Look at the Dodgers from 17 to 18? The Cubs from 16 to 17?

Keuchel could be gone. Morton could be gone. Verlander is going to be 36. Cole might revert to the Cole he’s been his whole career before this year. Bullpens are always up and down. Marwin could be gone. They don’t really have a catcher for next year. 

They have a core of Altuve-Correa-Springer-Bregman that you expect will all be above average, but the Angels have Trout-Ohtani-Simmons-Upton that should all be above average. 

Anyway, the point is you never know what will happen and I assume the Angels will be building the best team they can build and trying to win the division.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

24 minutes ago, floplag said:

And what makes you think that one guy would be bullet proof injury free and perfect?    I mean weve had such luck in that regard i understand why you would believe that but... oh, wait. 
Ill take my changes with an upgraded lineup and the depth we have.  The only arm i want to talk about is a lock down bullpen piece. 
We see the game different philosophically, and thats fine, but i for one am not dumping my top chips for an area that isnt an obvious need 

To each his own, we tried that for 3 years in a row. Our pitching has not been good or healthy. There is no guarantee that a getting a top pitcher will stay healthy but it is better than going with what we have now. IMO

A healthy Shoemaker is a 4/5 starter, Skaggs could a #2 starter if he can stay healthy. Heaney is #3 at best, Barria was good this season maybe a #/4 pitcher. Compared to teams that actually made the playoffs our pitching left a lot to be desired even on the few days they healthy. Without Richards and Ohtani we are 2 quality starters short of the opening day starters. JC Ramirez and Middleton will both be coming off TJ. Meyer had shoulder surgery so he is a giant ?. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Ace-Of-Diamonds

[Mark68]

52 minutes ago, floplag said:

And what makes you think that one guy would be bullet proof injury free and perfect?    I mean weve had such luck in that regard i understand why you would believe that but... oh, wait. 
Ill take my changes with an upgraded lineup and the depth we have.  The only arm i want to talk about is a lock down bullpen piece. 
We see the game different philosophically, and thats fine, but i for one am not dumping my top chips for an area that isnt an obvious need 

And just because our pitchers haven't been bulletproof, injury free and perfect means that there are NO pitchers that fit that mold? Maybe not perfect, because pobody's nerfect.

Let's play a "what if" game. What if the Angels somehow were to play a single-elimination wild card game on the road? Who on our current roster would you want starting that game? Who do you have enough confidence in to get us that win in a must-win scenario? I know how I'd answer that: nobody. There is literally nobody on our current rotation that I trust enough to put them in that must-win game and know that we have a decent shot to win. 

I know you think getting a starting pitcher doesn't matter, because you've made that very clear. 

You are wrong. 

Much of the reason we're on a losing streak is because we don't have a starting pitcher that is good enough or who can pitch deep enough to shut down the opposition. We maybe had somebody like that in Ohtani, but unfortunately, he won't be pitching until 2020.

 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

7 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

And just because our pitchers haven't been bulletproof, injury free and perfect means that there are NO pitchers that fit that mold? Maybe not perfect, because pobody's nerfect.

Let's play a "what if" game. What if the Angels somehow were to play a single-elimination wild card game on the road? Who would on our current roster would you want starting that game? Who do you have enough confidence in to get us that win in a must-win scenario? I know how I'd answer that: nobody. There is literally nobody on our current rotation that I trust enough to put them in that must-win game and know that we have a decent shot to win. 

I know you think getting a starting pitcher doesn't matter, because you've made that very clear. 

You are wrong. 

Much of the reason we're on a losing streak is because we don't have a starting pitcher that is good enough or who can pitch deep enough to shut down the opposition. We maybe had somebody like that in Ohtani, but unfortunately, he won't be pitching until 2020. 

 

I'm saying we need a top of the rotation pitcher, your response seems to believe I want to stay with what we have I don't. I don't trust anyone of our starters enough to feel comfortable in a one game winner take all wild card game.

I think you need to reread my posts. I have made it abundantly clear we pitching, pitching, pitching. Corner IF, and possibly a catcher. I was happy with Calhoun to at least start the season in RF until Adell is ready to take over.

********************** Some of my previous post to follow:****************

What makes you think  Hermosillo will be any better than Kole? Nothing he has shown me so far would indicate it. Kole had a bad season granted but he has 4 decent seasons prior. He also is a GG RF with a canon for an arm. He will play RF next year as there are more pressing holes to fill, including 3B, 1B, and pitching.

-----------------------------------

10 hours ago, Torridd said:

Do we need a starter more or another hitter? Catcher and closer are lower on my list.

both

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doubt that anyone other than Kole starts in RF next season... Pitching, Pitching, Pitching, corner IFs, and Catcher and we're good to go.

----------------------------

I could go on but you get the picture

[Mark68]

1 minute ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

I'm saying we need a top of the rotation pitcher, your response seems to believe I want to stay with what we have I don't. I don't trust anyone of our starters enough to feel comfortable in a one game winner take all wild card game.

I think you need to reread my posts. I have made it abundantly clear we pitching, pitching, pitching. Corner IF, and possibly a catcher. I was happy with Calhoun to at least start the season in RF until Adell is ready to take over.

********************** Some of my previous post to follow:****************

What makes you think  Hermosillo will be any better than Kole? Nothing he has shown me so far would indicate it. Kole had a bad season granted but he has 4 decent seasons prior. He also is a GG RF with a canon for an arm. He will play RF next year as there are more pressing holes to fill, including 3B, 1B, and pitching.

-----------------------------------

both

-----------------------------------

doubt that anyone other than Kole starts in RF next season... Pitching, Pitching, Pitching, corner IFs, and Catcher and we're good to go.

----------------------------

I could go on but you get the picture

You might want to reread my post and see who I was responding to.

[Lou]

14 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

You might want to reread my post and see who I was responding to.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The Astros aren’t a lock to win 100 games forever, you know. 

Look at the Dodgers from 17 to 18? The Cubs from 16 to 17?

Keuchel could be gone. Morton could be gone. Verlander is going to be 36. Cole might revert to the Cole he’s been his whole career before this year. Bullpens are always up and down. Marwin could be gone. They don’t really have a catcher for next year. 

They have a core of Altuve-Correa-Springer-Bregman that you expect will all be above average, but the Angels have Trout-Ohtani-Simmons-Upton that should all be above average. 

Anyway, the point is you never know what will happen and I assume the Angels will be building the best team they can build and trying to win the division.

No one is giving up on 2019.  I wrote less likely but not off the table.  I actually think Kole (with a K) will be closer to his career avg than what he did this year.  I think we will make some moves to compete like adding Donaldson and a SP.  (like Corbin, Keuchel, or someone else).  I even mentioned in another post that it isn't likely Houston replaces their historically good rotation over the next two years.  

My point (apparently missed by most) was that by 2021 we're gonna have a sustainable window for 3-4 years ala Cleveland and I would prefer to save our bullets for that.  ie, I don't think it's time to go all in on Realmuto or deGrom or any other player with two years of control.  

You never know what's going to happen, but you have to reasonably weigh your odds and not shove when your only out is a spade on the river.  

[Tank]

On 9/23/2018 at 6:06 PM, beatlesrule said:

It would be Yelich if this organization had any freaking clue what it was doing.

you're a smart guy and you know that it takes two to pull off a trade.  there could be 10 reasons why the angels didn't get him. or 25. or 40. or 2. there's no basis for thinking the angels could have had him but chose not to.

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, REDneck said:

What I wish happened and should happen..

Trade for Yelich last off season... big missed opportunity imo.

Trade for Realmuto this off season...

Sign a FA SP and BP arm this off season...

Sign Arenado in 2020

Somehow keep Adell in above trades everyone else can be used to acquire, including Canning.

Extend Trout!!

Yes this scenario pretty much just decimates the farm but damn were looking good in 2020 with a young and very talented team.

Yelich, Realmuto,Arenado,Simmons,Ohtani,Upton,Adell and Trout!!

we were never going to acquire Yelich without giving up Adell.  

we'd be a .500 team with him and whoever we got in a Kole trade.  whoopty doo.   

A starter, pen arm and Arenado for this year and next puts payroll over $200 mil. 

this board is straight up pull and pray.   

  

[Stradling]

29 minutes ago, REDneck said:

What I wish happened and should happen..

Trade for Yelich last off season... big missed opportunity imo.

Trade for Realmuto this off season...

Sign a FA SP and BP arm this off season...

Sign Arenado in 2020

Somehow keep Adell in above trades everyone else can be used to acquire, including Canning.

Extend Trout!!

Yes this scenario pretty much just decimates the farm but damn were looking good in 2020 with a young and very talented team.

Yelich, Realmuto,Arenado,Simmons,Ohtani,Upton,Adell and Trout!!

Hahaha.  So get Yellich without giving up Adell when the guy the Marlins got was ranked higher than Adell, then acquire Realmuto, still without giving up Adell.  This isn’t real life. 

[Stradling]

12 minutes ago, REDneck said:

I'm sure you're right about this, but we do have a good amount of other prospect currency to deal from.

I did allude to it being wishful thinking on my part in my post.

But when the trade was made they didn’t have that value.  They weren’t ranked very high.  Canning had yet to throw a pitch.  Adell hadn’t played above A ball.  Rengifo was still with the Rays.  Marsh was a season removed from an injury.  Jones was an outfielder, Ward was a light hitting catcher. So many guys took big steps forward this year.  I’m sure I’ll get called out for this by our resident minor league expert, but it certainly seems that what our minor leagues are doing better now than in the past is actually developing players.  

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, REDneck said:

All good points and we had Calhoun and Upton in the plans.

But, dont make it sound like it was impossible to acquire Yelich without giving up Adell.

It would have been a great acquisition.

Look I fully agree that acquiring Yelich and Realmuto without giving up Adell is far fetched, but I don't think it is impossible.

 

Ok the Brewers got the 13th and 82nd ranked prospects plus two more prospects for Yellich.  Adell was ranked in the 50’s.   So while it may not have been impossible, it was certainly improbable.  Hell the trade was probably improbable with Adell.  

[kevinb]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok the Brewers got the 13th and 82nd ranked prospects plus two more prospects for Yellich.  Adell was ranked in the 50’s.   So while it may not have been impossible, it was certainly improbable.  Hell the trade was probably improbable with Adell.  

Knowing what you know now would you trade Adell a still unproven MLB player for Yellich?

[GrittyVeterans]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

we were never going to acquire Yelich without giving up Adell.  

we'd be a .500 team with him and whoever we got in a Kole trade.  whoopty doo.   

A starter, pen arm and Arenado for this year and next puts payroll over $200 mil. 

this board is straight up pull and pray.   

  

Yelich was under contract well past this season

[Docwaukee]

29 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Yelich was under contract well past this season

um ok.  

[GrittyVeterans]

23 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

um ok.  

The point is the trade would have been about more than just this past season

[Chuck]

16 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

To have any shot at Realmuto ... Adell will need to be in play

[Chuck]

Back on topic, I think the Angels need to bring in a starting RF on a 1 year deal. Calhoun looks lost at the plate. Keep Kole as our 4th OF or trade him for a lower level Rengifo type prospect like we did with Cron.

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Back on topic, I think the Angels need to bring in a starting RF on a 1 year deal. Calhoun looks lost at the plate. Keep Kole as our 4th OF or trade him for a lower level Rengifo type prospect like we did with Cron.

I doubt there is anyone available on a 1-yr deal who would be any more of a safe bet than Kole, so I can't see them displacing him into a 4th OF role unless it was for a significant long-term solution, and in that case, they'd be better off dealing him to clear salary.

If the Angels could find a lefty-mashing bench vet who could play 1B, 3B, LF, and RF, it'd really ease a lot of the bench needs. Who fits that bill? Danny Valencia? Steve Pearce? Sean Rodriguez? 

[Docwaukee]

10 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Back on topic, I think the Angels need to bring in a starting RF on a 1 year deal. Calhoun looks lost at the plate. Keep Kole as our 4th OF or trade him for a lower level Rengifo type prospect like we did with Cron.

agree that they'll bring in a guy who could start if need be but Kole has no trade value and likely gets first crack at RF next year.  It could be a guy like Marwin Gonzalez who can play multiple positions.  

[totdprods]

9 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

agree that they'll bring in a guy who could start if need be but Kole has no trade value and likely gets first crack at RF next year.  It could be a guy like Marwin Gonzalez who can play multiple positions.  

I'd be interested in Marwin but there will be some Valbuena PTSD present on this board I don't think I can stomach when he slumps for the first time. 

[floplag]

11 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

To each his own, we tried that for 3 years in a row. Our pitching has not been good or healthy. There is no guarantee that a getting a top pitcher will stay healthy but it is better than going with what we have now. IMO

A healthy Shoemaker is a 4/5 starter, Skaggs could a #2 starter if he can stay healthy. Heaney is #3 at best, Barria was good this season maybe a #/4 pitcher. Compared to teams that actually made the playoffs our pitching left a lot to be desired even on the few days they healthy. Without Richards and Ohtani we are 2 quality starters short of the opening day starters. JC Ramirez and Middleton will both be coming off TJ. Meyer had shoulder surgery so he is a giant ?. 

All true, but you just named more guys than can fill a rotation anyway.  Health is the key.  if the above mentioned dont stay healthy, your #1 ace wont matter anyway.   one guy, no matter who or how good, wont make up the shortcoming of the rest of the staff. 
I've said many times im not opposed to getting an ace, i just dont think its the #1 priority.  I would be fine with if we fixed the other issues first, though i suspect once we do there wont be that kind of funds available.