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Overreactions about Eppler


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People got way too hyped about some early success with the Simmons deal and some nice success building a decent farm and tried to put him on the Epstein/Friedman/Cashman level of executives

now people are saying he’s worse than Dipoto

the truth is both are/we’re huge overreactions. He hasn’t proven to be great yet and hasn’t proven to be a disaster

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4 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Farm = good

Acquisitions outside of Simba = horrible.  Paying a guy $106 million to suck with RISP?

That’s the thing, it’s been a mixed bag. He hasn’t done enough good things for a long enough period of time to say he’s in the upper echelon of GMs but has done enough good to say he’s not in the bottom 10. 

Jury is still out and the next 2 years are real important for him

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I was one of Eppler’s fans going into the season but I just don’t feel all that confident anymore. The guys he has brought in have just flat out not worked out. I don’t see how he can make this team competitive within the next two years. 

 

Yeah the farm is good again but most of the prospects still need to adjust to MLB and hopefully they can succeed. The jury is still out on Thaiss, Ward, Canning, Rengifo etc. 

 

right now Trout is gone in two years, there is no doubt in my mind. The guy deserves to go win

 

we all know Moreno isn’t going to shell out a shit load on the Manny Machado’s and Bryce Harper’s of the world and let’s be real... how much of a difference would those guys even make when we still have holes all over the offense and pitching staff? 

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25 minutes ago, TroutField said:

I was one of Eppler’s fans going into the season but I just don’t feel all that confident anymore. The guys he has brought in have just flat out not worked out. I don’t see how he can make this team competitive within the next two years. 

 

Yeah the farm is good again but most of the prospects still need to adjust to MLB and hopefully they can succeed. The jury is still out on Thaiss, Ward, Canning, Rengifo etc. 

 

right now Trout is gone in two years, there is no doubt in my mind. The guy deserves to go win

 

we all know Moreno isn’t going to shell out a shit load on the Manny Machado’s and Bryce Harper’s of the world and let’s be real... how much of a difference would those guys even make when we still have holes all over the offense and pitching staff? 

I hate to say it but I agree about Trout. Hes been the best player in baseball for what now, 7 years in a row? And hes been to the playoffs one time? Obviously we all want him to stay but I think it's time to get realistic and think why would he stay? The man deserves to win and at the very least should be playing in the playoffs every year...

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35 minutes ago, failos said:

It feels like Eppler is just coasting.

Dipoto gets a lot heat (and rightfully so), but he at least he's aggressive. 

To be fair, its two way different situations.

Dipoto came in to a lot better team. After pujols and hamilton were signed (and trout fell from the heavens), there was a hell of a lot more urgency to win now...which killed us.

Eppler is operating under the "we missed the pujols window". So the focus im sure since he got here was "build a solid team without albert". Problem obviously is pujols' money.

Not trying to make excuses, but I think the focus has been "weather the storm" (no farm, bloated contracts, all old dudes) and focus on a 5 year plan. At least from the looks of it, that seems to be happening.

Im just as bored of this team as anyone, but if they truly had/have a long term, id rather they stay with it than to have second thoughts, start a new plan thats completely different than the one theyve been trying.

Its like going to college to be a doctor. Youre in year 6, almost there. But as a broke college kid you cant really ever have fun. So you drop out and get a job bartending. Because youre making money NOW and partying. (Youll hate life when you get older because the money wasnt near as good as being a doctor would have been).

Focus on the future core, not the current. Like the cubs and astros did.

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1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

Farm = good

Acquisitions outside of Simba = horrible.  Paying a guy $106 million to suck with RISP?

Sorry if I'm being repetitive here across a few threads, I just think it's worth discussion for future team building (and frankly, flies in direct conflict with the sabremetrics I'm generally a fan of, I'll always try to admit when I think I'm wrong).

Sequencing matters. Mariners offense is no better than ours. It just is more "clutch." However, I don't necessarily buy into "clutch" so much as I buy into complementary pieces. Upton is a VERY good player. And yet, I think he might be the absolute worst MOTO bat to pair with Trout. Why? 

Trout's biggest asset is consistency (at least his OBP - he always gets on base, slumping or not). To have a guy with extreme highs and lows behind him allows opposing managers to take their chances walking Trout. Upton hot and punishes you? Well, shit, you lose, yay Angels! But that means that you lose value when Trout = hot and Upton = cold AND when Trout = cold and Upton = cold. You win by 3+ runs when Upton is going good, and get repeatedly frustrated losing by 1-2 runs more often than not when Upton is meh or worse. 

Rather than a slugger behind Trout, I think we need a guy like Simmons who is high AVG and also high OBP. However, it really means we need two guys like Simmons, because his value getting on base in front of Trout is extremely important too. 

Thoughts? I'm providing very little if any concrete stats to back this up, as a guy who usually is stats first. Really curious what everyone thinks. 

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Sucks to lose obviously, but I like where this team is going. I think Eppler has by far done more good than bad. He’s been extremely resourceful considering the salary bind he’s been in. He sees the big picture, and where he wants to steer the ship. He’s done a good job in the draft, which to me says a lot. He’s made great acquisitions with Ohtani and Maitan which nobody seems to give him credit for. The moves people feel are his “bad moves” have never hurt the team long term, and I felt we’re caluculated risks with upside. Many people on this board were so excited and praised the kinsler and cozart signings. They didn’t work out, so what. They very well could have had great seasons and suddenly he’s a genius again. Bottom line, the trade and signing didn’t hurt the team or effect his long term goal in my opinion. 

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6 minutes ago, Hufflepuff said:

Sucks to lose obviously, but I like where this team is going. I think Eppler has by far done more good than bad. He’s been extremely resourceful considering the salary bind he’s been in. He sees the big picture, and where he wants to steer the ship. He’s done a good job in the draft, which to me says a lot. He’s made great acquisitions with Ohtani and Maitan which nobody seems to give him credit for. The moves people feel are his “bad moves” have never hurt the team long term, and I felt we’re caluculated risks with upside. Many people on this board were so excited and praised the kinsler and cozart signings. They didn’t work out, so what. They very well could have had great seasons and suddenly he’s a genius again. Bottom line, the trade and signing didn’t hurt the team or effect his long term goal in my opinion. 

Hufflepuff? Is that a Pokémon?

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1 hour ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

To be fair, its two way different situations.

Dipoto came in to a lot better team. After pujols and hamilton were signed (and trout fell from the heavens), there was a hell of a lot more urgency to win now...which killed us.

Eppler is operating under the "we missed the pujols window". So the focus im sure since he got here was "build a solid team without albert". Problem obviously is pujols' money.

Not trying to make excuses, but I think the focus has been "weather the storm" (no farm, bloated contracts, all old dudes) and focus on a 5 year plan. At least from the looks of it, that seems to be happening.

Im just as bored of this team as anyone, but if they truly had/have a long term, id rather they stay with it than to have second thoughts, start a new plan thats completely different than the one theyve been trying.

Its like going to college to be a doctor. Youre in year 6, almost there. But as a broke college kid you cant really ever have fun. So you drop out and get a job bartending. Because youre making money NOW and partying. (Youll hate life when you get older because the money wasnt near as good as being a doctor would have been).

Focus on the future core, not the current. Like the cubs and astros did.

I guess the problem comes when/if these prospects that are highly touted turn into duds and nothing special than this team is just in the same spot. 4th or 5th place. We’ve seen it before we had Dallas, Kotchman, Wood, Mathis who turned into absolute nobodies 

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1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

I guess the problem comes when/if these prospects that are highly touted turn into duds and nothing special than this team is just in the same spot. 4th or 5th place. We’ve seen it before we had Dallas, Kotchman, Wood, Mathis who turned into absolute nobodies 

Every team has seen that happen, but what happened 4 GMs ago is irrelevant. You might as well be talking about The Colt 45’s.  

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3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Every team has seen that happen, but what happened 4 GMs ago is irrelevant. You might as well be talking about The Colt 45’s.  

I don’t think your reading comprehension is good. I wasn’t making some claim that he had anything to do with those players. Just what happens if these can’t miss prospects of his great drafts. Don’t turn out to be can’t miss prospects? He’s got more than likely one year left after this year to prove he can be the gm long term after that if they miss the playoffs next year as well he’s probably looking for another job. 

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1 hour ago, failos said:

It feels like Eppler is just coasting.

Dipoto gets a lot heat (and rightfully so), but he at least he's aggressive. 

If the M's miss the playoffs this season they are in big trouble, with the worst farm system in baseball and with a huge Pujols like contract owed to Cano, King Felix a shell of his former self, and Paxton on the DL again. Cruz is going to be 38 next season and will be a FA. They have no farm to speak of to fill key positions if the injury bug strikes.

The A's have gone 25-7 to jump from 2 games under .500 to 16 games over .500 and are now just 1 1/2 games behind Seattle for the second WC. Paxton was scratched from his start today and will remain on the DL awhile longer with a bad back.

I'm rooting for the A's since we are not going anywhere and screw Dipoto.

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10 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

I guess the problem comes when/if these prospects that are highly touted turn into duds and nothing special than this team is just in the same spot. 4th or 5th place. We’ve seen it before we had Dallas, Kotchman, Wood, Mathis who turned into absolute nobodies 

Don't forget about Trout., Salmon, Erstad, Anderson, and Jim Edmonds. Our luck with prospects is bound to turn positive again.

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it's hard to imagine building a team that could withstand the injuries sustained while Eppler has been GM.  But as some point, regardless of adversity, results matter.  

2016 was expected.  No financial resources.  No farm system.  low expectations.  Lost year because of horrible pitching. 

2017 was expected.  similar financial resources.  Improving but very young farm system.  Very little org currency.  Weaver led the team in innings with an era over 5. more/same pitching injuries led to the 2nd worst pitching in the league.  Espinosa and Revere/Maybin failed.  As did pitching health.  Bridwell's smoke and mirrors 

2018 was or first real chance to have a chance.  Granted, outside of the major league club there was plenty going on to improve the long term health of this franchise.  Upton was a solid choice regardless of his struggles with RISP.   Injuries have hurt including that to Ohtani.   But the short term solutions to improve the major league club have failed.  The pen, valbuena, kinsler, cozart, marte, not keeping cron, maldo.  

Each year Eppler is here, there is a greater portion of the the major league roster he's got control over and less leftovers to blame on someone else.  2018 was the first year where he had enough control to actually create a winner.  It wasn't complete control because he still had to deal with Albert and Injuries.  But he finally had opportunity and he failed.  

If he was perfect would we make the playoffs?  I doubt it.  Because most of his moves aren't a long term detriment to the franchise.  But there's been no progress in the win column.  

So the rest of this year and 2019 becomes make or break.  There has to be improvement at 1b, 2b, 3b, C, bullpen and SP.  Finally having farm resources to contribute on that front will help tremendously.  But there can't be abject failure anymore.  

At the end of the day, every GM deals with the sins of the father.  That can no longer be an excuse next year.  90+% of this team will have Billy's name on it.  If all the work he's done to build up this franchise from the floor doesn't translate into wins at the major league level then we have a problem.  

Even if we don't make the playoffs next year, there better be progress.  Considerable progress.  Whether it's because Rengifo wins ROY and David Fletcher wins a gold glove with Pat Corbin vying for a cy young as a halo or if trades he makes to fill those spots in lieu of those young guys results in a more competitive team.  

It's not for me to decide.  His decisions have to start making a difference at the major league level.  

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8 hours ago, Dochalo said:

it's hard to imagine building a team that could withstand the injuries sustained while Eppler has been GM.  But as some point, regardless of adversity, results matter.  

2016 was expected.  No financial resources.  No farm system.  low expectations.  Lost year because of horrible pitching. 

2017 was expected.  similar financial resources.  Improving but very young farm system.  Very little org currency.  Weaver led the team in innings with an era over 5. more/same pitching injuries led to the 2nd worst pitching in the league.  Espinosa and Revere/Maybin failed.  As did pitching health.  Bridwell's smoke and mirrors 

2018 was or first real chance to have a chance.  Granted, outside of the major league club there was plenty going on to improve the long term health of this franchise.  Upton was a solid choice regardless of his struggles with RISP.   Injuries have hurt including that to Ohtani.   But the short term solutions to improve the major league club have failed.  The pen, valbuena, kinsler, cozart, marte, not keeping cron, maldo.  

Each year Eppler is here, there is a greater portion of the the major league roster he's got control over and less leftovers to blame on someone else.  2018 was the first year where he had enough control to actually create a winner.  It wasn't complete control because he still had to deal with Albert and Injuries.  But he finally had opportunity and he failed.  

If he was perfect would we make the playoffs?  I doubt it.  Because most of his moves aren't a long term detriment to the franchise.  But there's been no progress in the win column.  

So the rest of this year and 2019 becomes make or break.  There has to be improvement at 1b, 2b, 3b, C, bullpen and SP.  Finally having farm resources to contribute on that front will help tremendously.  But there can't be abject failure anymore.  

At the end of the day, every GM deals with the sins of the father.  That can no longer be an excuse next year.  90+% of this team will have Billy's name on it.  If all the work he's done to build up this franchise from the floor doesn't translate into wins at the major league level then we have a problem.  

Even if we don't make the playoffs next year, there better be progress.  Considerable progress.  Whether it's because Rengifo wins ROY and David Fletcher wins a gold glove with Pat Corbin vying for a cy young as a halo or if trades he makes to fill those spots in lieu of those young guys results in a more competitive team.  

It's not for me to decide.  His decisions have to start making a difference at the major league level.  

Hey @Dochalo, I agree with you but I think Weaver was 2016, not 2017.

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9 hours ago, Hufflepuff said:

Sucks to lose obviously, but I like where this team is going. I think Eppler has by far done more good than bad. He’s been extremely resourceful considering the salary bind he’s been in. He sees the big picture, and where he wants to steer the ship. He’s done a good job in the draft, which to me says a lot. He’s made great acquisitions with Ohtani and Maitan which nobody seems to give him credit for. The moves people feel are his “bad moves” have never hurt the team long term, and I felt we’re caluculated risks with upside. Many people on this board were so excited and praised the kinsler and cozart signings. They didn’t work out, so what. They very well could have had great seasons and suddenly he’s a genius again. Bottom line, the trade and signing didn’t hurt the team or effect his long term goal in my opinion. 

I get what you're saying.   But if the bad stop gap acquisitions continue for the next couple of seasons, the team will not be that much closer to post-season play.  

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