OC Register: Angels move prospect Taylor Ward from catcher to third base

[m0nkey]

Whatever. It doesn’t make sense from the outside, but Eppler and co. get paid the big bucks to make these decisions. I’ll put my trust in them

[IheartLA]

7 minutes ago, m0nkey said:

Whatever. It doesn’t make sense from the outside, but Eppler and co. get paid the big bucks to make these decisions. I’ll put my trust in them

you sound like a 3-D chess kind of guy, we don't have to blindly support someone even if we're fans. I do like Eppler as well, he took over in '15 so I'm not even laying the onus on him. I like picking high upside guys like Adell that have lots of tools in the 1st round. Going for a future 1B in round 1 is something I would absolutely avoid, same thing with relief pitchers. But that's just me, I feel like you can find good value at those positions without using a 1st round pick.

[101halo]

I think this is the biggest improvement moving from Dipoto to Eppler. And in complete transparency, I was a huge Dipoto fan and was legitimately pissed when he was shown the door (or whatever happened). Thought it set us back from having a real analytics department and put us squarely in the baseball stone age. 

What I've learned is that yes, Dipoto is book smart. And he's great at telling people that. Over and over. And again, until he rubs his partners the wrong way and they tune him out, rendering his "intelligence" useless. 

Eppler is an analytical mind too, but respects the "art" side of the game as much as the "science." So he can communicate better with Scioscia, provide useful info from that perspective, and have it be well received and used. 

When it comes to catchers, he knows Scioscia is the expert and trusts him, knowing that the analytics can't measure the impact of pitchers trusting in their backstop.

I was one that screamed loudly every time Mathis was praised over Napoli. Seeing that he's still in the league with that piss poor bat, getting glowing reviews from every pitcher that's spoken about him humbles me and makes me realize it's an aspect of baseball that I'll never understand, since I'm not there in practice, the team plane or in the dugout. 

tl;dr:  Eppler = science, Scioscia = art, and yet they respect each other and that's why it works. 

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, 101halo said:

I think this is the biggest improvement moving from Dipoto to Eppler. And in complete transparency, I was a huge Dipoto fan and was legitimately pissed when he was shown the door (or whatever happened). Thought it set us back from having a real analytics department and put us squarely in the baseball stone age. 

What I've learned is that yes, Dipoto is book smart. And he's great at telling people that. Over and over. And again, until he rubs his partners the wrong way and they tune him out, rendering his "intelligence" useless. 

Eppler is an analytical mind too, but respects the "art" side of the game as much as the "science." So he can communicate better with Scioscia, provide useful info from that perspective, and have it be well received and used. 

When it comes to catchers, he knows Scioscia is the expert and trusts him, knowing that the analytics can't measure the impact of pitchers trusting in their backstop.

I was one that screamed loudly every time Mathis was praised over Napoli. Seeing that he's still in the league with that piss poor bat, getting glowing reviews from every pitcher that's spoken about him humbles me and makes me realize it's an aspect of baseball that I'll never understand, since I'm not there in practice, the team plane or in the dugout. 

tl;dr:  Eppler = science, Scioscia = art, and yet they respect each other and that's why it works. 

Great summary.  The thing with the new age FOs isn't so much that they implement analytics 100%, but rather, they know how to blend analytics with "baseball art," so to speak.

DiPoto was great with analytics, but he sucked with everything else, and unfortunately was too addicted with the thrill of trading to realize that he was gradually decimating his team's future.

[Second Base]

There is not one specific formula that will produce a major leaguer. That's where we've pigeon holed Eppler and where we've  miscalculated Dipoto's mistakened approach.

Dipoto wasn't wrong when he drafted Taylor Ward because he was a collegiate catcher. Eppler wasn't right when he drafted Jo Adell because he was a prep outfielder.

Dipoto was wrong because he thought he knew something others didn't know. He was going to draft this kid whose skill set was so far beyond any catcher and he was ready right now, and Mike Scioscia, in all his pseudoscience about catching could not deny this kid. He was a major league catcher, talent is talent. Dipoto is right, Mike Scioscia is wrong. The Angels needed this catcher. 

Eppler was right in drafting Jo Adell, because he wasn't proving anyone wrong. There's a hugely talented kid, everyone knew he was talented and he's available. He may have gone 1-1 in any other year, and the Angels never drafted that high. The fact that they drafted tenth overall was as high as they had gone in decades. He was the best player available. 

There's no "draft upside Prep players and you win" or "don't draft collegiate pitchers" formula. It comes to each individual player. That's it. 

Dipoto had a formula he followed. Eppler doesn't. The very fact that Jerry has a formula speaks to his arrogance. He wanted to control this chaos. He knew the answer and that's why he's the best. That's why he is where he is. 

Eppler wants to hear every angle of it because he doesn't feel like he knows it all. He'll take in advice from any outlet that produces. They signed this unknown kid from the Bahamas instead of an upside safer pick from the DR. He used a unique opportunity to acquire Kevin Maitan while pursuing Ohtani which runs directly counter to the Deveaux move. 

Again, no plan. No complex to prove yourself. That's why Eppler is succeeding.

[Stradling]

6 hours ago, Blarg said:

He's just angry that his favorite restaurant closed and doesn't like the new location or staff uniforms. 

 

(Let's keep talking like Claude is not here) 

Clod who?

 

[Docwaukee]

This is only interesting because Dipoto and Wilson drafted a 3rd round pick in the 1st round.   Too bad they didn't lock on to Scott Kingery instead.  

I get what you're saying Scotty, but I absolutely disagree that Eppler doesn't have a plan.  It's semantics and just what you are saying but his plan is to individually evaluate players and not eliminate anyone until he's done his homework.  

Jerry and Ric would eliminate entire pools of talent because they thought they were clever.  They felt the college pool was undervalued.  They're probably right to some degree in that there's some Paul Goldschmidts or even Kole Calhouns out there.  They thought they were smart enough to find them when no one else had the formula.  Jerry still thinks that and there are people who still believe him.  

Jerry's decimation of the M's farm system isn't going to be just because he trades everyone away, but also because of his draft strategy.  2 HS players signed from each of the 2016 and 2017 drafts for the M's.  High floor.  Low ceiling.  Good luck with that.  

 

As for Ward, I think Eppler's words give the answer loud and clear.  Taylor just didn't have the aptitude.  Handling a pitching staff is only so teachable.  It's, unfortunately, feeling like a lost pick at this point.  Hopefully, some of that BP power can start to play up.   Not saying he's the next Josh Donaldson, but it's not totally bizarre for a guy to switch off of catcher and have their offense blossom.  

One more thing to consider.  They could have traded Ward as a catcher prior to switching his position if there was any question he could survive there.  But in all likelihood, it wasn't just the halos that knew who couldn't cut it.  

 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

DiPoto was great with analytics, but he sucked with everything else, and unfortunately was too addicted with the thrill of trading to realize that he was gradually decimating his team's future.

Dipoto was great at TALKING about analytics -- but then he would make moves that flew in the face of what he had just spent hours talking about.

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Dipoto was great at TALKING about analytics -- but then he would make moves that flew in the face of what he had just spent hours talking about.

Dipoto tries to fit the players into the data.  

[Stax]

Lets hope the position change enables Ward to improve on his hitting and he makes it to the majors as Eppler believes he will.

[Mark68]

April fools!?

[Docwaukee]

I think this also tells you what the Angels think of the catcher position going forward.  

Carlos Perez seemed like a Martin Maldonado clone on the surface.  Yet they went outside the org to replace him and he essentially became  a non factor.  Same with Bandy.  Who seemed to have a similar skill set.  Now Taylor Ward is converted even though he clearly has the defensive skill set to play the position.  

So the key seems to be how a player handles the staff.  Followed by a strong receiver and someone who can control the run game.  

Here's a question for those in the know.  Is 'building rapport' with a pitcher something that can be achieved by just working harder?  viewing more film.  putting in more time.  making more effort.  Because I'm wondering if that's the key.  The thing that makes the biggest difference between a Maldonado or Mathis vs. a Perez, Ward, Napoli or Bandy.  

[eligrba]

8 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I think this also tells you what the Angels think of the catcher position going forward.  

Carlos Perez seemed like a Martin Maldonado clone on the surface.  Yet they went outside the org to replace him and he essentially became  a non factor.  Same with Bandy.  Who seemed to have a similar skill set.  Now Taylor Ward is converted even though he clearly has the defensive skill set to play the position.  

So the key seems to be how a player handles the staff.  Followed by a strong receiver and someone who can control the run game.  

Here's a question for those in the know.  Is 'building rapport' with a pitcher something that can be achieved by just working harder?  viewing more film.  putting in more time.  making more effort.  Because I'm wondering if that's the key.  The thing that makes the biggest difference between a Maldonado or Mathis vs. a Perez, Ward, Napoli or Bandy.  

I do not understand how Eppler knew these things about Maldonado if he was mostly used a backup catcher.  Did other teams miss this about Maldonado or ignore it?

[stormngt]

43 minutes ago, eligrba said:

I do not understand how Eppler knew these things about Maldonado if he was mostly used a backup catcher.  Did other teams miss this about Maldonado or ignore it?

If not mistaken Roenicke had a lot to do with acquisition o f Maldonado 

[AngelsLakersFan]

55 minutes ago, eligrba said:

I do not understand how Eppler knew these things about Maldonado if he was mostly used a backup catcher.  Did other teams miss this about Maldonado or ignore it?

The Angels are definitely putting a greater emphasis on the more intangible aspects of catching than the average team is.

[Jason]

On 3/30/2018 at 10:44 PM, ten ocho recon scout said:

Just have to hope his bat plays up at 3B as well as Baldoquins will at SS.

Woo hoo! “We get a career minor leaguer”! LMAO!

[Tank]

On 3/30/2018 at 11:48 PM, Dave Saltzer said:

What the hell???? This makes no sense, unless it is to make him a bit more versatile to be a backup catcher and 3B.

Could this move be because they think his defense at third will be more valuable to the club as well as his career?

[Second Base]

13 hours ago, Dochalo said:

This is only interesting because Dipoto and Wilson drafted a 3rd round pick in the 1st round.   Too bad they didn't lock on to Scott Kingery instead.  

I get what you're saying Scotty, but I absolutely disagree that Eppler doesn't have a plan.  It's semantics and just what you are saying but his plan is to individually evaluate players and not eliminate anyone until he's done his homework.  

Jerry and Ric would eliminate entire pools of talent because they thought they were clever.  They felt the college pool was undervalued.  They're probably right to some degree in that there's some Paul Goldschmidts or even Kole Calhouns out there.  They thought they were smart enough to find them when no one else had the formula.  Jerry still thinks that and there are people who still believe him.  

Jerry's decimation of the M's farm system isn't going to be just because he trades everyone away, but also because of his draft strategy.  2 HS players signed from each of the 2016 and 2017 drafts for the M's.  High floor.  Low ceiling.  Good luck with that.  

 

As for Ward, I think Eppler's words give the answer loud and clear.  Taylor just didn't have the aptitude.  Handling a pitching staff is only so teachable.  It's, unfortunately, feeling like a lost pick at this point.  Hopefully, some of that BP power can start to play up.   Not saying he's the next Josh Donaldson, but it's not totally bizarre for a guy to switch off of catcher and have their offense blossom.  

One more thing to consider.  They could have traded Ward as a catcher prior to switching his position if there was any question he could survive there.  But in all likelihood, it wasn't just the halos that knew who couldn't cut it.  

 

You just said exactly what I said but right after disagreeing with me.

[Lou]

3 hours ago, eligrba said:

I do not understand how Eppler knew these things about Maldonado if he was mostly used a backup catcher.  Did other teams miss this about Maldonado or ignore it?

[Angel Oracle]

On the subject of catchers in the org, how does that now stand below AAA?

[Second Base]

12 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I think this also tells you what the Angels think of the catcher position going forward.  

Carlos Perez seemed like a Martin Maldonado clone on the surface.  Yet they went outside the org to replace him and he essentially became  a non factor.  Same with Bandy.  Who seemed to have a similar skill set.  Now Taylor Ward is converted even though he clearly has the defensive skill set to play the position.  

So the key seems to be how a player handles the staff.  Followed by a strong receiver and someone who can control the run game.  

Here's a question for those in the know.  Is 'building rapport' with a pitcher something that can be achieved by just working harder?  viewing more film.  putting in more time.  making more effort.  Because I'm wondering if that's the key.  The thing that makes the biggest difference between a Maldonado or Mathis vs. a Perez, Ward, Napoli or Bandy.  

I think it has to be one of those things that comes naturally for the most part. It can be developed over time, the thirst to be as detailed and diligent as possible isn't something that is innate in my opinion. 

I think many of those personal quirks that apply to catcher are similar to that of being an NFL quarterback. The most talented throwers and readers/reactors aren't the best quarterbacks.

[Angel Oracle]

7 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

I think it has to be one of those things that comes naturally for the most part. It can be developed over time, the thirst to be as detailed and diligent as possible isn't something that is innate in my opinion. 

I think many of those personal quirks that apply to catcher are similar to that of being an NFL quarterback. The most talented throwers and readers/reactors aren't the best quarterbacks.

Bart Starr and Joe Montana = exhibits 1A and 1B.

[Lou]

20 hours ago, IheartLA said:

Cron, Thaiss, Ward

stop drafting catchers in the 1st round if you don't think they will stick there

Do you really believe that they didn't think they would stick at the position when they drafted them? 

[totdprods]

After watching Maldonado's post-game interview yesterday, I'm convinced he will be here for a few more seasons. Aside from being a fantastic defensive catcher and a decent enough hitter, you can tell he works his tail off establishing a relationship with his pitchers and is a clubhouse leader. He'll get extended and continue to catch more than the average everyday catcher.

Ward simply wasn't going to have a path and there was no need to limit him to a back-up role right at the onset. 

[Second Base]

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

After watching Maldonado's post-game interview yesterday, I'm convinced he will be here for a few more seasons. Aside from being a fantastic defensive catcher and a decent enough hitter, you can tell he works his tail off establishing a relationship with his pitchers and is a clubhouse leader. He'll get extended and continue to catch more than the average everyday catcher.

Ward simply wasn't going to have a path and there was no need to limit him to a back-up role right at the onset. 

I think there's something to the veteran catchers the Angels have opted to use. They dealt Bandy and Perez (after demotion) and have told Ward to find another spot.

The vets can mentor the pitching staff better and ultimately are the gritty professionals that guide a pitcher.