New Senate Tax Plan

[Glen]

I wish they were. I wish the democrats would fight the republicans as hard as the republicans fight the democrats.

[Glen]

Democrats are forcing Conyers to step down. Republicans are campaigning for Moore. Democrats voted in union against the tax bill. Republicans voted almost in lockstep for it.

Both parties are the same.

[Glen]

https://theintercept.com/2017/12/04/trump-white-house-weighing-plans-for-private-spies-to-counter-deep-state-enemies/

 

Both parties are the same.

[Spirit]

26 minutes ago, Glen said:

Both parties are the same.

 

Agreed

 

[Thomas]

30 minutes ago, Glen said:

https://theintercept.com/2017/12/04/trump-white-house-weighing-plans-for-private-spies-to-counter-deep-state-enemies/

 

Both parties are the same.

At this point if they aren't actively complicit with their counterparts then they are absurdly incompetent.

[Tank]

44 minutes ago, Glen said:

Democrats are forcing Conyers to step down. Republicans are campaigning for Moore.

hard to justify what the cons are doing, but it really highlights how they let political power sway them to get/keep control. very much a position of "it's wrong if you do it but tolerable if i do it."

[mtangelsfan]

1 hour ago, Glen said:

https://theintercept.com/2017/12/04/trump-white-house-weighing-plans-for-private-spies-to-counter-deep-state-enemies/

 

Both parties are the same.

Lets be honest, these are very different circumstances.  Conyers will be easily replaced by another dem. 

[Adam]

2 hours ago, red321 said:

Stephen Moore, advisor to Trump campaign on tax policy...let's the cat out of the proverbial bag 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-campaign-adviser-says-gop-tax-overhaul-death-to-democrats

Stephen Moore, a conservative economist who advised President Donald Trump’s campaign on economic and tax policy, said in an interview published Tuesday that the Republican tax overhaul currently under debate by the House is “death to Democrats.”

“They go after state and local taxes, which weakens public employee unions. They go after university endowments, and universities have become play pens of the left,” Moore told Bloomberg. “And getting rid of the mandate is to eventually dismantle Obamacare.”

So it’s a good bill then?

[Adam]

1 hour ago, Geoff said:

 

Agreed

 

Ditto

[red321]

38 minutes ago, Adam said:

So it’s a good bill then?

It's one thing to pass legislation that may impact various groups more than others...it's another to do so explicitly because they do not support you and to try and hurt the other party's ability to compete with you in the future. If it's your view that that is ok...than I guess it's a good bill.

[Adam]

4 minutes ago, red321 said:

It's one thing to pass legislation that may impact various groups more than others...it's another to do so explicitly because they do not support you and to try and hurt the other party's ability to compete with you in the future. If it's your view that that is ok...than I guess it's a good bill.

California did exactly that when Trump was elected. I’m sitting in a labor law conference right now going through all of the new bills that were introduced in January in response to his election.

[Adam]

Democracy is so important to the voters in this country up until the results are an inch off of what they want, then they just disregard it.

[Thomas]

2 hours ago, red321 said:

Stephen Moore, advisor to Trump campaign on tax policy...let's the cat out of the proverbial bag 

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-campaign-adviser-says-gop-tax-overhaul-death-to-democrats

Stephen Moore, a conservative economist who advised President Donald Trump’s campaign on economic and tax policy, said in an interview published Tuesday that the Republican tax overhaul currently under debate by the House is “death to Democrats.”

“They go after state and local taxes, which weakens public employee unions. They go after university endowments, and universities have become play pens of the left,” Moore told Bloomberg. “And getting rid of the mandate is to eventually dismantle Obamacare.”

Geeze. 30 years ago the Democrats would have eviscerated this at the grass roots level.  Every union hall would have been full and raising hell. There would have been leading Democrats on TV making a compelling case about what the right is trying to do. Now? Meh...

[red321]

14 minutes ago, Adam said:

California did exactly that when Trump was elected. I’m sitting in a labor law conference right now going through all of the new bills that were introduced in January in response to his election.

Democrats specifically passed laws to punish Republican voters and depress Republican turnout?

[red321]

5 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Geeze. 30 years ago the Democrats would have eviscerated this at the grass roots level.  Every union hall would have been full and raising hell. There would have been leading Democrats on TV making a compelling case about what the right is trying to do. Now? Meh...

I agree. I think one of Obama's worst legacies is not utilizing his popularity (on the left/within Democratic circles) to try and build the party similar to what Howard Dean was doing. As funny as Howard's scream was, he was very passionate about ensuring Democrats tried to compete everywhere.

[Adam]

They passed laws to circumvent perceived changes in federal law. Tomato, tomAto

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

28 minutes ago, Adam said:

California did exactly that when Trump was elected. I’m sitting in a labor law conference right now going through all of the new bills that were introduced in January in response to his election.

The state has also thumbed it's nose at the feds over the issue of sanctuary cities and other matters saying they'll fight yet they aren't too proud to ask for fed funds for some of their long overdue infrastructure repairs, when the dam up north was about to give and the list goes on.     

[fan_since79]

5 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

The state has also thumbed it's nose at the feds over the issue of sanctuary cities and other matters saying they'll fight yet they aren't too proud to ask for fed funds for some of their long overdue infrastructure repairs, when the dam up north was about to give and the list goes on.     

The feds are stepping in right now to help with the fires. I wonder if Brown will express any gratitude for that.

 

[Mark68]

29 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Geeze. 30 years ago the Democrats would have eviscerated this at the grass roots level.  Every union hall would have been full and raising hell. There would have been leading Democrats on TV making a compelling case about what the right is trying to do. Now? Meh...

Well, since the GOP has been destroying unions with all of their "right to work" laws, the Dems feel like they have no choice but to also go corporate. No unions, less grassroots.

 

[Spirit]

3 hours ago, Glen said:

Democrats are forcing Conyers to step down. Republicans are campaigning for Moore. Democrats voted in union against the tax bill. Republicans voted almost in lockstep for it.

Both parties are the same.

 

Democrats are forcing Conyers, a black man, to step down. Democrats are also allowing Franken, a white man, to fly quietly under the radar.  The racist hypocrisy is overwhelming. 

Both parties are the same.

 

[red321]

37 minutes ago, Adam said:

They passed laws to circumvent perceived changes in federal law. Tomato, tomAto

did those laws specifically target Republicans and financially hurting the opposition party?

[Thomas]

8 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

Well, since the GOP has been destroying unions with all of their "right to work" laws, the Dems feel like they have no choice but to also go corporate. No unions, less grassroots.

The "no choice" rationale given by Democrats is about as transparent as glass. It sounds suspiciously like an addict explaining their choices.  Corporate ties as much as anything doomed Hillary's 2016 chances. It's utterly baffling that a political party in the current environment can't at the very least make a compelling case for why they are the better choice for the non-elite classes in this country. Yes the Republicans are playing dirty as far as skewing voter influence. However compared to the opportunities that would seemingly be there to form an overwhelming coalition of voters, these tricks seem trivial.

[Adam]

13 minutes ago, red321 said:

did those laws specifically target Republicans and financially hurting the opposition party?

Sure. There are what, 10 million or so republicans in this State, who were happy Trump was elected and looking forward to aspects of his agenda. The State government sought/seeks to disrupt that agenda, hurting the opposition party. 

[Mark68]

8 minutes ago, Thomas said:

The "no choice" rationale given by Democrats is about as transparent as glass. It sounds suspiciously like an addict explaining their choices.  Corporate ties as much as anything doomed Hillary's 2016 chances. It's utterly baffling that a political party in the current environment can't at the very least make a compelling case for why they are the better choice for the non-elite classes in this country. Yes the Republicans are playing dirty as far as skewing voter influence. However compared to the opportunities that would seemingly be there to form an overwhelming coalition of voters, these tricks seem trivial.

What is happening is something that I foresaw with the stupid Citizens United Supreme Court ruling. How money ever got equated with speech by a so-called "strict constructionist" like Scalia, I'll never be able to reconcile. But what this ruling did is make sure the playing field would be perpetually uneven. Money has always bought power, but there was always somewhat of a check on that. Now that unlimited campaign donations can be made by anybody, he who has the most gold can buy the most votes.

Who has the most gold? Corporations. Until campaign financing laws get a major overhaul, this is the new normal for both parties. Yeah, Bernie got an average of $27/donation. Where did it get him?

[Spirit]

So people with more money get more than one vote at the ballot box now?