Time to fly the flag...

[Angel Oracle]

Just now, Stradling said:

Self ban?

Not even that can help.

[VariousCrap]

This team is just so frustrating.  I wouldn't wave the white flag yet, but this team has to get over that .500 mark and stay there.  They have to do it very soon too.

[ten ocho recon scout]

39 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

NOW, raise the flag!

But dont let any of the pitchers do it.

[Docwaukee]

I was feeling a little mojo till the oakland series.  

Agree with Strad in that there really isn't anything to be done internally that they aren't already doing.  

Tonight is a good example of why it's gonna be tough to get any momentum.  JC Ramirez hasn't thrown 100 innings or more since his AA season in 2011.  He's now over 135 in 22 starts with 2 early season relief appearances.  He's potentially slated to make 10 more starts at 5-6 innings per.  Let's give him another 55 ip.  That's 190 total innings for a guys who's never been a major league starter.  So in today's game it was clear he as tiring in the 7th even though he was only at about 90 pitches.   You got Skaggs coming back.  Bridwell approaching 100ip but he should be able to get through a few more than that.  But unlikely another 10 starts.  Meyer and Heaney will likely be limited as far as IP once they return.  Nolasco is just bad so the more innings he pitches the worse off we are.  Scribner pitched 132 innings in the minors last year.  his career high and he's at 105.  Plus, as much as I'd like him to succeed, he's likely a #5 or swing guy.  I wouldn't rely on Richards coming back this year.  

And now the pen is showing cracks which is why JC is left in even though he was looking a bit spent.  

I can't blame the pitching staff for showing signs of weakness.  They have made a pretty valiant effort this year actually when you take a step back and look who's making up the squad.  If you had told me we'd have a rotation of JC Ramirez, Nolasco, Bridwell, Scribner, and we had just replaced Chavez with Skaggs yet we'd still be only  a couple of games below .500, I would have thought the offense would be one of the tops in baseball.   And we know that's not true.  

The only chance this team has is to get going on offense.  So far they are a collection of under performers, Trout, and Simmons.  Albert, Cron, Valbuena and Calhoun really need to pull their heads out or we're done.  

Frankly, we're probably done but it mean a lot to sneak into a WC slot considering all the poor performances and injuries.  So I'll keep hoping for now.  

[Brandon]

for as injury riddled and as bad as this team is, being in the hunt is miraculous.

so trout now knows the potential and can sign a 35 year contract.

[Puget Sound Angel]

No way with this fiasco of a pitching staff do we get the second wild card.

[ten ocho recon scout]

5 hours ago, Puget Sound Angel said:

No way with this fiasco of a pitching staff do we get the second wild card.

Even if we did, what would the most likely outcome be? I hate to sound like a downer, im not trying to be. But the "hope for the best" thing IMO is one of the reasons were here. And if we continue to approach things that way, we'll stay here.

Ever since we tightened the purse strings, weve had this revolving door or gambles where if things work out best case scenario, we 'could' win. (Ibanez, joyce, giving up grichuk for freese, etc).

I get it because we had to cut cost, and didnt have trade chips. So im not mad at the front office. I just think they and we as fans should be patient and focus long term, not hoping for lightening in a bottle.

[zenmaster]

I think the thing that frustrates me most this year is that we have signs of contention where we might still be in the thick, then our bullpen tanks, then another starter goes down, etc. I guess at this point I have zero expectations so any positive we can take into next year is a bonus. 

[Jason]

9 minutes ago, zenmaster said:

I think the thing that frustrates me most this year is that we have signs of contention where we might still be in the thick, then our bullpen tanks, then another starter goes down, etc. I guess at this point I have zero expectations so any positive we can take into next year is a bonus. 

Signs of contention? Only to the unrealistic optimists here. This team doesn't have the talent to contend.

[floplag]

9 hours ago, Stradling said:

Of course the front office cares, but they have very few pieces to trade and while rentals don't have a high price tag, long term types at the deadline have an extremely high price.

I'm sorry, but thats a copout.  We all know the farm situation, but theres more to the game than the farm.  
They could take on salary, they wont.  
They didnt need to trade a decent BP arm for a less than a bag of balls  
Now we will watch them not re-sign Maybin or Escobar and create 2 more holes to worry about and next year.

And god is my witness i'm up to me eyes with "but Trout"...  watching this team flounder while he soars isnt my idea of fandom. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

I'm sorry, but thats a copout.  We all know the farm situation, but theres more to the game than the farm.  
They could take on salary, they wont.  
They didnt need to trade a decent BP arm for a less than a bag of balls  
Now we will watch them not re-sign Maybin or Escobar and create 2 more holes to worry about and next year.

And god is my witness i'm up to me eyes with "but Trout"...  watching this team flounder while he soars isnt my idea of fandom. 

All that's cool and all but Eppler has a very good eye for pitching.  If he traded nothing to get Hernandez, then I'm guessing what he got for Hernandez will be a useful player.  As for adding money, who?  Verlander?  That's a ton of money.  What other starter was moved that was a salary dump?  

This team better not resign Escobar, that guy is trash.  He costs us runs on defense.  He has one strength and that's hitting and this year he's a 99 OPS+, so he's below average.  I think they'll make a push to sign Maybin or someone to be an everyday left fielder.  Bottom line is the team will need to sign a second or third baseman and a left fielder between now and the start of next season.  Not to mention pitching.

No idea what you are saying about Trout.  If you're suggesting trading him it's been pointed out many times why that is a horrible idea and almost impossible.  He is 116% better offensively than the average player.  You trade him, you get worse over keeping him and signing players to put around him.  

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

All that's cool and all but Eppler has a very good eye for pitching.  If he traded nothing to get Hernandez, then I'm guessing what he got for Hernandez will be a useful player.  As for adding money, who?  Verlander?  That's a ton of money.  What other starter was moved that was a salary dump?  

This team better not resign Escobar, that guy is trash.  He costs us runs on defense.  He has one strength and that's hitting and this year he's a 99 OPS+, so he's below average.  I think they'll make a push to sign Maybin or someone to be an everyday left fielder.  Bottom line is the team will need to sign a second or third baseman and a left fielder between now and the start of next season.  Not to mention pitching.

No idea what you are saying about Trout.  If you're suggesting trading him it's been pointed out many times why that is a horrible idea and almost impossible.  He is 116% better offensively than the average player.  You trade him, you get worse over keeping him and signing players to put around him.  

I pretty much agree with this. I think Cowart should be their 2B guy so that leaves 3B and 1B left for position players they need to address. Cron is not the answer IMO. I would like to see a little more consistency from that spot. 

[zenmaster]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Signs of contention? Only to the unrealistic optimists here. This team doesn't have the talent to contend.

Yeah I probably worded that poorly. More like "Signs of maybe being able to somehow squeak into that 1 game WC playoff spot". 

[eligrba]

The Angels "chasing" the second wildcard reminds me of the cute girl at a bar only interested in having you buy her drinks.

[floplag]

32 minutes ago, Stradling said:

All that's cool and all but Eppler has a very good eye for pitching.  If he traded nothing to get Hernandez, then I'm guessing what he got for Hernandez will be a useful player.  As for adding money, who?  Verlander?  That's a ton of money.  What other starter was moved that was a salary dump?  

This team better not resign Escobar, that guy is trash.  He costs us runs on defense.  He has one strength and that's hitting and this year he's a 99 OPS+, so he's below average.  I think they'll make a push to sign Maybin or someone to be an everyday left fielder.  Bottom line is the team will need to sign a second or third baseman and a left fielder between now and the start of next season.  Not to mention pitching.

No idea what you are saying about Trout.  If you're suggesting trading him it's been pointed out many times why that is a horrible idea and almost impossible.  He is 116% better offensively than the average player.  You trade him, you get worse over keeping him and signing players to put around him.  

Useful when?  2020?  were in a friggin WC race now.  Shouldn't THAT be a priority?

Your bottom line is correct, deja vu all over again its thew same issue weve had last year, or even the last couple years... and this is what we got, why do you think it will be better next off season?  

I'm not suggesting anything in regards to Trout other than the fact that i still care more for the name on the front than the back.  I would trade him if it meant the Angels winning and not regret it.. having him on a losing team is like putting frosting on dogshit 
 

[Stradling]

18 minutes ago, floplag said:

Useful when?  2020?  were in a friggin WC race now.  Shouldn't THAT be a priority?

Your bottom line is correct, deja vu all over again its thew same issue weve had last year, or even the last couple years... and this is what we got, why do you think it will be better next off season?  

I'm not suggesting anything in regards to Trout other than the fact that i still care more for the name on the front than the back.  I would trade him if it meant the Angels winning and not regret it.. having him on a losing team is like putting frosting on dogshit 
 

Ok but trading him doesn't guarantee winning it almost certainly means losing.  Why will it be better this offseason?  

Hamilton- $25 million

Street- $10 million

Nolasco- $9 million

Escobar- $9 million

Chavez- $6 million

Espinosa- $6 million

All those salaries are gone this off season.  Crazy when you look at that, Escobar, who's been below average is the best player.  I'm guessing we got about 2 WAR for $65 million.  I trust Eppler to improve the team with some money.  

 

[Blarg]

Oh ffs people this wildcard talk and anything can happen stuff is bullshit. Let's try and take off the fan glasses and be somewhat realistic, they don't have the players.

Pitching is a patchwork of minor league guys that don't have a record yet and are taking advantage of it, for a while. A couple more starts and Scribner and company are going to be racked non stop. As is, most of the starters can't get out of the fifth inning and the game moves to a suspect bullpen.

And that's the positives. Other than Trout and Simmons the offense is offending. If you've watched recently they have been gifted extra outs by poor defensive teams but still can't get over the .500 Mark and we still haven't seen a true playoff push yet, it's still the dog days of summer. 

The Angels are ranked 25th in offense. Let that sink in, they are only better than the Padres, Giants, Phillies and Pirates. Teams do not make a playoff push without offense unless they have Cy Young and the 12 diciples pitching for them. 

So, yes, I don't believe they have a chance in hell of either making the playoffs or moving anywhere if they do capture the last wildcard spot. It doesn't mean they are going to quit trying or I'm going to quit watching but for myself I'm not thinking any player move, roster change or series is altering the course of the season.

[floplag]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok but trading him doesn't guarantee winning it almost certainly means losing.  Why will it be better this offseason?  

Hamilton- $25 million

Street- $10 million

Nolasco- $9 million

Escobar- $9 million

Chavez- $6 million

Espinosa- $6 million

All those salaries are gone this off season.  Crazy when you look at that, Escobar, who's been below average is the best player.  I'm guessing we got about 2 WAR for $65 million.  I trust Eppler to improve the team with some money.  

 

I agree we have money coming off, but WHO do you spend it on?  The crop of FA is either not a significant improvement or will be highly over priced.   I've looked at the projected list and i dont see much that a significant upgrade or wont be overpaid.  Tell me how you spend that money?  
And all this doesnt take into account that were pissing away the rest of this season but i guess thats moot .

[Stradling]

I still wouldn't mind improving the team this month if that improvement is for past next season if all it cost is money.

[Stradling]

Just now, floplag said:

I agree we have money coming off, but WHO do you spend it on?  The crop of FA is either not a significant improvement or will be highly over priced.   I've looked at the projected list and i dont see much that a significant upgrade or wont be overpaid.  Tell me how you spend that money?  
And all this doesnt take into account that were pissing away the rest of this season but i guess thats moot .

Pissing away a season where we're under .500?  Ok.  

[floplag]

Just now, Stradling said:

Pissing away a season where we're under .500?  Ok.  

and 2-3 games out but lets not count that 

[Stradling]

Here's a better question @floplag.  Who moved at the trade deadline that would have helped past this season that is better than this off seasons free agent class?  

[Jason]

54 minutes ago, zenmaster said:

Yeah I probably worded that poorly. More like "Signs of maybe being able to somehow squeak into that 1 game WC playoff spot". 

Basically they have to play above their potential and the teams above them need to shit the bed.

 

[Farmbuildingfan]

2 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Even if we did, what would the most likely outcome be? I hate to sound like a downer, im not trying to be. But the "hope for the best" thing IMO is one of the reasons were here. And if we continue to approach things that way, we'll stay here.

Ever since we tightened the purse strings, weve had this revolving door or gambles where if things work out best case scenario, we 'could' win. (Ibanez, joyce, giving up grichuk for freese, etc).

I get it because we had to cut cost, and didnt have trade chips. So im not mad at the front office. I just think they and we as fans should be patient and focus long term, not hoping for lightening in a bottle.

I am mad at the front office, since it was their lack of wisdom that got the Angels in this mess with few options for immediate improvement.

Maybe if they would have emphasized scouting and not emphasized free agent acquisitions such as Pujols ,Hamilton, and Wilson instead of draft picks. and not hired Dipoto and Reagins. the Angels would have a better way out of this.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

and 2-3 games out but lets not count that 

I'm going to count that out.  If you aren't .500 you probably shouldn't be looking at the standings.  If they go on a two week hot streak then fine.  This team won 6 of 7, then have lost 3 of 4 to bad teams.