Pujols has been terrible

[nate]

I am pretty sure the new CBA doesn't allow Bonilla style deferred payments and it would be a terrible idea anyway.  I also believe they abolished the "personal services" agreement like Pujols got as well.

[yk9001]

8 hours ago, CALZONE said:

Well as bad as the team has been they certainly do have their dog and pony show in place with Pujols and his milestones. The fans are loving it. 

Help me out - is this sarcasm?

 

[yk9001]

The night of 600.

[Ohtaniland]

47 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Help me out - is this sarcasm?

 

I'm referring to the casual bobblehead collecting fans who don't give a hoot about his performance or the standings. They probably have no idea what OPS means. Oh and they jump when the Rally Monkey says jump. Please remind me how many players the Angels fans voted to the All Star game again? 

[Jeff Fletcher]

9 hours ago, Dochalo said:

Agree he shouldn't.  I wouldn't.  It's not his fault he's overpaid.  He can only do what he can do and I believe he's trying.  

I do disagree, however, that it would take 10-20mil to replace him.  If his current trend continues, a replacement level bat at league minimum would outproduce him.  The only thing saving him has been his ability to drive runs in at a level that is disproportionate to the rest of his numbers.  A very debatable 'skill'.  One that has very rapidly regressed to the mean with a wRC+ of 21 or an ops of .479 in june after that of a  116 in mar/apr (ops of .844 with RISP), and 233 in may (with an ops of 1.274).  

Am I ready to call it?  maybe not yet, but it's getting pretty close.  Cuz if he ends up hitting .235 with a wRC+ of 75 and a WAR of -2.0 (what he's on pace for) and the RISP numbers normalize to the rest of his stats, then what?  Then you have to consider the fact that even as bad as Valbuena and Cron and Marte have been that they or even some random callup from AAA like a Kowart or Puello would have a better chance of providing more value than he does.  

Now, I completely understand that they're not just going to bench him.  I know it doesn't matter to a lot of people here, but he earned every ounce of lee-way he's gonna get from every player, coach, GM, and owner in the Angels org.  He's been great for the game and in spite of some here's thoughts, he's been good for this franchise.  Not what we'd hoped, but still good.  I don't envy MS, or Eppler or Arte in regards to how this is eventually going to have to be handled.  But you have to admit, there's some pretty loud writing on the wall.  

Maybe it starts with a phantom DL stint here and there.  Or a move to 5th in the lineup with Calhoun splitting up he and Trout.  I know it's going to be a process, but that process has to start at some point.  He's 37 and a half years old.  If he himself doesn't recognize his own shelf life at some point then I don't know what to say.  

You can't bench Pujols for someone like Valbuena or Marte if one of them is just a little more productive. Like a .625 vs .635 OPS. Aside from the fact that it's embarrassing to Pujols, the point is to play the guy who produces better in the future, and it's certainly not a given that someone who has barely outperformed Pujols to date will continue to outperform him, especially when Pujols is so far below his expectations, even for his current state. 

In order to bench Pujols it has to be for a legit guy who will definitely be significantly better than him. And that guy is expensive, either in salary or prospects you'd pay to get him. Or both.

[Homebrewer]

15 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

You can't bench Pujols for someone like Valbuena or Marte if one of them is just a little more productive. Like a .625 vs .635 OPS. Aside from the fact that it's embarrassing to Pujols, the point is to play the guy who produces better in the future, and it's certainly not a given that someone who has barely outperformed Pujols to date will continue to outperform him, especially when Pujols is so far below his expectations, even for his current state. 

In order to bench Pujols it has to be for a legit guy who will definitely be significantly better than him. And that guy is expensive, either in salary or prospects you'd pay to get him. Or both.

There has to be somebody in this organization that can outproduce Pujols at the plate right now. 

Why not give AP a (wink) DL stint and bring up Cowart to DH for 10 days 2 weeks.  It should be about winning baseball games, not about Albert's pride.

Fact is Albert should have enough pride, that his poor production should be embarrassing enough. A DL stint coupled with the All Star break might just do him some good.  

[Ohtaniland]

24 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

You can't bench Pujols for someone like Valbuena or Marte if one of them is just a little more productive. Like a .625 vs .635 OPS. Aside from the fact that it's embarrassing to Pujols, the point is to play the guy who produces better in the future, and it's certainly not a given that someone who has barely outperformed Pujols to date will continue to outperform him, especially when Pujols is so far below his expectations, even for his current state. 

In order to bench Pujols it has to be for a legit guy who will definitely be significantly better than him. And that guy is expensive, either in salary or prospects you'd pay to get him. Or both.

I'm very confident that there's a legit guy out there somewhere that can DH at a higher level than Pujols. My guess is that Eppler does not have the Green Light to go there because of his contract, 3000 hits and Willie Mays. 

[Troll Daddy]

2 hours ago, CALZONE said:

I'm very confident that there's a legit guy out there somewhere that can DH at a higher level than Pujols. My guess is that Eppler does not have the Green Light to go there because of his contract, 3000 hits and Willie Mays. 

Until Pujols decides to call it quits ... I'm ok with him being the DH. I'm NOT ok with him being a MOTO bat. Angels need to fix that ... he should be batting 6th when Trout returns. You need to have Yescobar and Simmons batting in front of him. 

[Stradling]

Claude wants the Angels to be buyers, that's weird. 

[Angel Oracle]

Can Pujols at least change his stance so that the exaggerated crouch is minimized?    Take some pressure off of those older knees and feet.

It's real bad when a slugger barely has over 20 XBH's..89 games into the season! 

[Ohtaniland]

1 hour ago, Homebrewer said:

There has to be somebody in this organization that can outproduce Pujols at the plate right now. 

Why not give AP a (wink) DL stint and bring up Cowart to DH for 10 days 2 weeks.  It should be about winning baseball games, not about Albert's pride.

Fact is Albert should have enough pride, that his poor production should be embarrassing enough. A DL stint coupled with the All Star break might just do him some good.  

The last guy that winked at Albert was Jerry Dipoto. He Gone!

[Ohtaniland]

1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

Until Pujols decides to call it quits ... I'm ok with him being the DH. I'm NOT ok with him being a MOTO bat. Angels next to fix that ... he should be batting 6th when Trout returns. You need to have Yescobar and Simmons batting in front of him. 

Here is your DH stat update. 

 

 

[Chuck]

52 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Until Pujols decides to call it quits ... I'm ok with him being the DH. I'm NOT ok with him being a MOTO bat. Angels next to fix that ... he should be batting 6th when Trout returns. You need to have Yescobar and Simmons batting in front of him. 

I agree that he needs to be moved down in the order. Like 6th or 7th, but that's not going to happen unless we get legit MOTO bats in this lineup.

I know Escobar has been decent there, but he's not a prototypical bat you want there or even 5th in the lineup. 

[eligrba]

1 hour ago, CALZONE said:

Here is your DH stat update. 

 

 

In all fairness, AW would find something to complain about for each one of these players if they played for the Angels.

[Jeff Fletcher]

Yes, I'm sure there are lots of guys who could outproduce Pujols if you let them play for 30-40 games. But you pretty much have to KNOW they will before you begin that. 

You can't just experiment: "Let's see if Kaleb Cowart can do it." 

Cron didnt. Valbuena didn't. Marte didnt. 

[Dtwncbad]

59 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Yes, I'm sure there are lots of guys who could outproduce Pujols if you let them play for 30-40 games. But you pretty much have to KNOW they will before you begin that. 

You can't just experiment: "Let's see if Kaleb Cowart can do it." 

Cron didnt. Valbuena didn't. Marte didnt. 

To be fair, I also don't KNOW Pujols can even keep his OPS at .662.  My brain tells me this is a one way street going South.

At some point (at OPS under 600?) you may have to make a decision even if you don't KNOW for sure what that decision brings.

[Ohtaniland]

42 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Yes, I'm sure there are lots of guys who could outproduce Pujols if you let them play for 30-40 games. But you pretty much have to KNOW they will before you begin that. 

You can't just experiment: "Let's see if Kaleb Cowart can do it." 

Cron didnt. Valbuena didn't. Marte didnt. 

IYHO does Eppler currently have the authority to go out and find someone with a better slash line than .238/.283/.379/.662 that can hit better than .259 w/RISP?  

Or is it possible that Albert because of his contract is untouchable and won't be displaced no matter what. 

 

 

[Dick B Back]

Right now Albert is working his butt off to end the season with the second most HRs on the Halos ahead of Calhoun, Maldonado, and Simmons.

[Docwaukee]

6 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

You can't bench Pujols for someone like Valbuena or Marte if one of them is just a little more productive. Like a .625 vs .635 OPS. Aside from the fact that it's embarrassing to Pujols, the point is to play the guy who produces better in the future, and it's certainly not a given that someone who has barely outperformed Pujols to date will continue to outperform him, especially when Pujols is so far below his expectations, even for his current state. 

In order to bench Pujols it has to be for a legit guy who will definitely be significantly better than him. And that guy is expensive, either in salary or prospects you'd pay to get him. Or both.

They won't right now because 1/2 of a seasons worth of looking terrible isn't even remotely enough to justify making such a move by the people who make those decisions.  There's really nothing you could do right now that would seem legit to them anyway.  

So how bad does it have to get?  

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 hours ago, CALZONE said:

IYHO does Eppler currently have the authority to go out and find someone with a better slash line than .238/.283/.379/.662 that can hit better than .259 w/RISP?  

Or is it possible that Albert because of his contract is untouchable and won't be displaced no matter what. 

 

 

I think Pujols has to be worse than this for longer than this before they consider releasing him, which is what you're talking about. 

Hes not really a good fit as a bench guy since he can't play defense or run. 

[m0nkey]

At least he can hit

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I think Pujols has to be worse than this for longer than this before they consider releasing him, which is what you're talking about. 

Hes not really a good fit as a bench guy since he can't play defense or run. 

It'll take at least one full year of a sub .700 OPS season and probably most of a consecutive second year before either Pujols or team start considering an exit, I'd imagine. He's looked really bad this year for a lot longer than usual, but I still wouldn't rule out the possibility of him having a .250/30/100 line at end of the year quite yet.

My hope is he somehow pulls that line again this season and finally has a full, normal, healthy offseason to work out and train and condition and get a fresh start on a year for once. I imagine the Angels and Albert want that as well - I don't think it's happened yet since maybe his first year here - and don't think either side is gonna pull the plug with that possibility looming this winter.

[Troll Daddy]

I heard Dirk Norwitzski opted out of his final year for over $30M dollars and signed a new two year deal for $10M ... to help the team.

You think Pujols would restructure his deal for less money and shorter term? 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Troll Daddy said:

I heard Dirk Norwitzski opted out of his final year for over $30M dollars and sign a new two year deal for $10M ... to help the team.

You think Pujols would restructure his deal for less money and shorter term? 

Players union won't allow that in baseball.  

[Troll Daddy]

20 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Players union won't allow that in baseball.  

Duh How about Dirk forgoing over $20M ... something is awry