Dipoto Vs Eppler (was it a good idea parting ways with J.D.?)

[LegendaryPujols#5]

In 2016 my favorite team the LA Angels faced the Seattle Mariners 19 times and ended up with an overall losing record of 8-11. At home games ended up at a jaw dropping 3-7.

In 2015 when J.D. was the GM for LA the angels won 12 of their 19 encounters with the Mariners and had a winning home record of 7-2.

looking at those numbers, it looks like J.D. knew what he was doing and the Mariners went from 76 -86 in 2015 to 86-76 in 2016. The Angels in the other hand went from 85-77 in 2015 to 74 -88 in 2016.

I wonder what's Arte Moreno thinking now about his stubborn Team Manager (General Manager de facto) Mike Sciocia and his P.R. (puppet G.M) Billy Eppler. 

I would trade Mike Scioscia and Mike Trout to Pittsburgh for McCutchen, Gerrit Cole and Clint Hurdle! 

[Lou]

[Angel Oracle]

Dipeutered will eventually empty the M's farm of higher valued prospects, just like he did the Halos' farm.   

I'll take Eppler over Dipeutered.

[mtangelsfan]

This has the potential to be an epic thread...............

or to die a loser's death.

 

[NJHalo]

You bring up some good points that no one here has ever had the balls to say. (JD vs. Epp, Scioscia being stubborn, trading Trout)

I have to say, I am not yet prepared to respond because these issues are ones that I never considered.

I do agree with you putting all your stock in how the Angels performed against one team over two seasons as a true indicator of overall long term success.

[California Cajun]

I was unhappy with Dipoto's departure because it meant the subordinate  (Scioscia) demonstrated that he had more power.

Since then, we got a GM who has been able to work in harmony in the organization without a need to flex his muscles.  It looks to me that the Angels organization is functioning better with Eppler in place, so I think parting ways with Dipoto made the front office better.

[Blarg]

Dipoto left the Angels with a bloated payroll, a stripped farm system, locked out of the international signings because of one bloated contract to a player that hasn't developed, little if anything of value in his four drafts, Hamilton still sucking up money to do hookers and blow in Texas along with no long term player value outside of Trout and Calhoun on the roster.

And Dipoto knew this before he quit. He knew he had nothing to work with for the next two years and ran from taking responsibility for the mess he left the Angels in. To say he was a better GM than Eppler by win totals completely ignores what long term damage he left behind.

[Ohtaniland]

JD flipped 90% of the roster and built a disfunctional team. He was highly touted as the Jedi Genius by many but his infatuation for Chris Iannetta and his yearly dumpster diving approach was disasterous. He was handed Pujols and Trout but then surrounded them with players like Blanton, Madsen, Hanson, Burnett and Frieri.

It's too early to compare Eppler because of what he inherited but I believe it will all end up like this....

Stoneman>Eppler>Reagins>Dipoto

[Stradling]

It's hard to argue with those facts and the sound reasoning demonstrated in LP5's post.  Very strong "evidence" @Oz27 would be proud.  

[Stradling]

While we are on the topic of brand new never addressed ideas, how would the Angels have done last season if Joe Maddon was our bench coach?  

[ScruffytheJanitor]

Here's one way to put it: What moves have each teams made, and under what constraints?

Eppler has been scouring the lower end of the $ spectrum because he was hamstrung by a high payroll. However, this approach of rooting through everyone's garbage has revealed a couple of treasures (Deolis Guerra, JC Ramirez, Et al.), so kudos there. A number of his moved were made in response to the Pitching injuries from last season, so it is a little unfair to give him TOO much (dis)credit for Lincicome and the other emergency additions.  Additionally, he has traded some high-variance relievers for a couple of decent-value veterans that filled big holes (Escobar and Maybin).  His other big move thus far was trading two pitching prospects for a Andrelton Simmons. Right now, that looks like a win for the Angels-- but if Newcomb finds his control (and Chris Ellis fixes whatever the hell happened last year), this may start looking better and better for Atlanta. It's important to mention that Eppler was able to trade Newcomb and STILL have a net improvement in the farm system.  

Dipoto has been much, much more active than Eppler has been-- so active that it would take 3 posts to go through his moves. The highlights include adding:  Danny Valencia, Steve Cishek, Nate Karns, Ariel Miranda, Adam Lind, Wade Miley (later traded), Chris Ianetta, Ben Gamel, Dan Vogelbach Nori Aoki.... you get the idea. The man likes to make moves. While on the whole these moves have been positive, that's a whole lot of shit to go down to improve by 10 wins (though, it should be noted, Felix Herandez's injuries played a part in tamping down the improvement here). It should be noted that while their farm system wasn't particularly highly regarded, they have managed to promote a few kids to the big leagues, make 1.34 billion trades, and still managed to have some intriguing prospects and an OK-ish farm system. 

On the face of it, DiPoto has performed better for LAST season because his team made a more noticeable improvement last year.  But it is important to note that Eppler had some pretty significant challenges... most of which were, to some degree or another, DiPoto's fault. The Mariner's future looks a little brighter, but the Angels just feel like they are making a much more important course correction. Additionally, Eppler's approach has been encouraging for the long term future of the club. 

So while I'd rate their performances in the short term as a slight win for DiPoto, Eppler's approach in the face of a depleted farm system and some unfortunate payroll restrictions (and DiPoto's culpability in creating those challenges) means that he is probably a better GM for the Angels. And DiPoto has, so far, been a decent upgrade for Seattle too. But given their CAREER performance, I'd place a bet that Eppler's track record will look better in 5 years than will DiPoto's. 

[Ohtaniland]

16 minutes ago, Stradling said:

While we are on the topic of brand new never addressed ideas, how would the Angels have done last season if Joe Maddon was our bench coach?  

The Cubs would've failed to win a championship. Maddon now has two rings. One with Sosh and one without. 

[Oz27]

30 minutes ago, Stradling said:

It's hard to argue with those facts and the sound reasoning demonstrated in LP5's post.  Very strong "evidence" @Oz27 would be proud.  

I can't tell if this is ridiculing me for the bunt discussion or not, because I'd like to think my argument was marginally more intelligent.

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

I can't tell if this is ridiculing me for the bunt discussion or not, because I'd like to think my argument was marginally more intelligent.

I wasn't ridiculing it was more of a joke comparing stats and their records last year as some sort of evidence.  

[Oz27]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I wasn't ridiculing it was more of a joke comparing stats and their records last year as some sort of evidence.  

Haha all good. As we all know, the best form of evidence is an arbitrarily selected small sample designed to support a random narrative. Props to the OP for coming through.

[eligrba]

Dipoto with the Angels looked like he was trying to figure out what to do and how to do it while Eppler seems to know what to do and how to do it.

I am sure Dipoto is a capable GM, but I wonder if a competent GM would decimate a farm system through poor drafting and non-impact trades.

[LegendaryPujols#5]

3 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Dipeutered will eventually empty the M's farm of higher valued prospects, just like he did the Halos' farm.   

I'll take Eppler over Dipeutered.

But Eppler looks irrelevant and not always the highest ranked prospect translates into a superstar, sometimes not even average and we have Brandon Wood, D-Mac and Sean Rodriguez as great examples.

[stormngt]

3 hours ago, LegendaryPujols#5 said:

In 2016 my favorite team the LA Angels faced the Seattle Mariners 19 times and ended up with an overall losing record of 8-11. At home games ended up at a jaw dropping 3-7.

In 2015 when J.D. was the GM for LA the angels won 12 of their 19 encounters with the Mariners and had a winning home record of 7-2.

looking at those numbers, it looks like J.D. knew what he was doing and the Mariners went from 76 -86 in 2015 to 86-76 in 2016. The Angels in the other hand went from 85-77 in 2015 to 74 -88 in 2016.

I wonder what's Arte Moreno thinking now about his stubborn Team Manager (General Manager de facto) Mike Sciocia and his P.R. (puppet G.M) Billy Eppler. 

I would trade Mike Scioscia and Mike Trout to Pittsburgh for McCutchen, Gerrit Cole and Clint Hurdle! 

What a dumbass post.  I guess JD knew we were going to lose 5 starting pitcher and our closer to injuries as well.

 

[Troll Daddy]

1. We got younger

2. Trout likes him

3. I like him

[LegendaryPujols#5]

2 hours ago, California Cajun said:

I was unhappy with Dipoto's departure because it meant the subordinate  (Scioscia) demonstrated that he had more power.

Since then, we got a GM who has been able to work in harmony in the organization without a need to flex his muscles.  It looks to me that the Angels organization is functioning better with Eppler in place, so I think parting ways with Dipoto made the front office better.

I think what's happening now is that the front office is doing what Scioscia is ordering with no hesitation at all but that's counterproductive.

[Junkballer]

3 minutes ago, LegendaryPujols#5 said:

I think what's happening now is that the front office is doing what Scioscia is ordering with no hesitation at all but that's counterproductive.

I'd love to read why you believe such a thing.  #lovepsychorants

[NJHalo]

Mike Trout finished second in MVP voting in 2015.

He won the award in 2016, so wouldn't you say Eppler knows how to get more out of his players than JD did?

[LegendaryPujols#5]

5 minutes ago, stormngt said:

What a dumbass post.  I guess JD knew we were going to lose 5 starting pitcher and our closer to injuries as well.

 

Tell me about the pitching staff he had there in Seattle. Losing the pitching staff is a good excuse to the fans for not getting there.

[LegendaryPujols#5]

1 minute ago, NJHalo said:

Mike Trout finished second in MVP voting in 2015.

He won the award in 2016, so wouldn't you say Eppler knows how to get more out of his players than JD did?

and Dipoto never tried to trade him. so if Mie Trout is here today, we need to thank him as well. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, ScruffytheJanitor said:

The man likes to make moves. While on the whole these moves have been positive, that's a whole lot of shit to go down to improve by 10 wins (though, it should be noted, Felix Herandez's injuries played a part in tamping down the improvement here). It should be noted that while their farm system wasn't particularly highly regarded, they have managed to promote a few kids to the big leagues, make 1.34 billion trades, and still managed to have some intriguing prospects and an OK-ish farm system. 

You are right, he likes to make moves -- he's got that whole "Trader Jack" mentality which is fun as a fan but it's hard to argue his moves were responsible for the 10 game improvement.   The 2016 Mariners rode Jack Z's guys, the guys they promoted where drafted under Jack Z -- the state of their farm system is again the result of Jack Z save for the guy they got in the first round last year.  Basically everything you're talking up was in place before he got there...    

Similarly, the good parts of his Angels teams were for the most part already in place when he got here.   The guy is stylish -- that seems to be his greatest attribute.