Braves talked to 15 teams about Simmons

[Stradling]

rape is hilarious

[Glen]

While it appears that we overpaid, it's too early to say for sure.

[Stradling]

If Newcomb turns out to be great it still doesn't mean it is an overpay until we see what Simmons can do. My experience is if both fan bases hate it then it is probably a pretty good deal.

[Blarg]

If that's what the poster meant, but again, that applies to anybody with a lengthy contract.

What I was disputing is the idea that because Simmons is young and signed a contract young, that it is therefore team friendly. The Braves got the team friendly portion of the contract out of the way and gave us the part that Simmons signed up for. The Angels will pay him more than they ever paid Aybar for the same years and even if the defensive metrics say he's "worth it" that doesn't make it team friendly, "cost controlled", or a steal.

Elvis Andrus is making over $15 million for the next six years. Simmons will not reap that number until his 5th and last season. His cost is $6,8,11,13,15 million over the length of his contract. Now do you really think that if Erick Aybar had hit free agency today at age 26 he wouldn't sign a contract for just as long, if not longer and for Andrus type money?

Simmons contract is very club friendly.

[totdprods]

Alden also reported Aybar wasn't interested in offering any type of hometown discount once he hit FA.

[disarcina]

I think Simmons is going to surprise some folks with his bat in the AL and hit better than his career average.

 

meanwhile, you've got a stellar glove at SS --

 

not necessarily the trade the Angels NEEDED to make -- and they have other more pressing needs --

 

but I like having Simmons at SS up the middle D for the next 4 or 5 years and so will the Halos pitching staff.

[ABC]

Elvis Andrus is making over $15 million for the next six years. Simmons will not reap that number until his 5th and last season. His cost is $6,8,11,13,15 million over the length of his contract. Now do you really think that if Erick Aybar had hit free agency today at age 26 he wouldn't sign a contract for just as long, if not longer and for Andrus type money?

Simmons contract is very club friendly.

 

The Andrus contract is not a good comp. Andrus has been a disappointment. He received his extension after his 23 age season and put up .727 OPS season. They expected him to be even better by now however his OPS has dropped to the mid sixes since. Andrus is grossly overpaid because the Rangers projected him to be of much higher value than he is.

 

Andrelton has dropped off significantly on offense after his contract as well. 2015: .660 OPS. At least that is up from 2014: .617 OPS. His contract is not a steal but it has the potential to be.

 

 

Elvis Andrus ss

8 years/$120M (2015-22), plus 2023 option

• 8 years/$120M (2015-22), plus 2023 vesting option
  • signed extension with Texas 4/4/13
  • $2M signing bonus.
  • 15:$15M, 16:$15M, 17:$15M, 18:$15M, 19:$15M, 20:$15M,21:$14M, 22:$14M, 23:$15M club option

Andrelton Simmons ss

7 years/$58M (2014-20)

• 7 years/$58M (2014-20)
  • signed extension with Atlanta 2/20/14
  • $1M signing bonus
  • 14:$1M, 15:$3M, 16:$6M, 17:$8M, 18:$11M, 19:$13M, 20:$15M
  • at signing, largest AAV for player with 1-plus year of service
  • acquired by LA Angels in trade from Atlanta 11/12/15

[Guest]

That Andrus contract is more idiotic than the Albert Pujols contract. 

[ABC]

Albert Pujols 1b
10 years/$240M (2012-21)

• 10 years/$240M (2012-21)
  • signed by LA Angels as a free agent 12/8/11
  • 12:$12M, 13:$16M, 14:$23M, 15:$24M, 16:$25M, 17:$26M,18:$27M, 19:$28M, 20:$29M, 21:$30M
  • full no-trade protection
  • milestone bonuses: $3M for 3,000 hits, $7M for 763 HRs
  • up to $0.875M annually in award bonuses. $0.5M for MVP ($75,000 each for 2nd or 3rd in vote). $0.1M for WS MVP. $75,000 each for Gold Glove, Silver Slugger, LCS MVP. $50,000 for All-Star
  • perks: hotel suite on road, luxury suite for Pujols charity for 10 home games each season, right to buy luxury suite between first and third base for all home games
  • 10-year, $10M personal-services contract begins once player contract expires

[ABC]

That Andrus contract is more idiotic than the Albert Pujols contract. 

 

I rather have traded Pujols for Andrus than the Simmons package.

[Guest]

I rather have traded Pujols for Andrus than the Simmons package.

 

Is liking your own posts a thing now?

[stormngt]

I remember when Brandon Wood, Jeff Mathis, Howie Kendrick and Ervin Santana (or something like that) was a severe overpay for Miguel Cabrera.

Add Adenhart. And yeah considering Santana and Kendrick both had all Star years and successful MLB careers and Adenhart was front end pitcher if his life wasn't tragically taken I would agree it was an overpay.

I would rather have three above average players than one great player.

[Inside Pitch]

High Heat Stats MLB â€@HighHeatStats  Nov 25

Top 30 players by WAR since 2013. This is why Jason Heyward is gonna get

5 retweets8 likes

Reply

 

Retweet

 

5

 

 

Like

 

8

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUqiDGDXAAEP11N.jpg:large

 

(Simmons comes in 19th)

Edited November 30, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[ten ocho recon scout]

High Heat Stats MLB ‏@HighHeatStats Nov 25

Top 30 players by WAR since 2013. This is why Jason Heyward is gonna get

5 retweets8 likes

Reply

Retweet

5

Like

8

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUqiDGDXAAEP11N.jpg:large

(Simmons comes in 19th)

I see that list, and know im supposed to notice heyward, but my eyes instinctively zoom in on beltre, and remember us swapping napoli for wells instead. SMH

[ABC]

 

High Heat Stats MLB â€@HighHeatStats  Nov 25

Top 30 players by WAR since 2013. This is why Jason Heyward is gonna get

5 retweets8 likes

Reply

 

Retweet

 

5

 

 

Like

 

8

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUqiDGDXAAEP11N.jpg:large

 

(Simmons comes in 19th)

 

 That list seems flawed with Kinsler above Heyward. And Heyward above Votto etc.

[Inside Pitch]

 That list seems flawed with Kinsler above Heyward. And Heyward above Votto etc.

 

What's flawed -- I'm not trying to be argumentative, just not sure how you mean flawed.  The list doesn't mean he's been the 19th best player in MLB -- it's just total WAR since 2013..  

 

If you're arguing that WAR might be too heavily dependent on defensive metrics which are (IMO), flawed, I'd say thats a worthwhile argument.  I's also argue/agree that WAR has no predictive value so, the list itself is fluff..  

 

But the list itself is what it is.

 

Edit: Votto is probably down on the list because he missed 100 games one of those years.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[ABC]

What's flawed -- I'm not trying to be argumentative, just not sure how you mean flawed.  The list doesn't mean he's been the 19th best player in MLB -- it's just total WAR since 2013..  

 

If you're arguing that WAR might be too heavily dependent on defensive metrics which are (IMO), flawed, I'd say thats a worthwhile argument.  I's also argue/agree that WAR has no predictive value so, the list itself is fluff..  

 

But the list itself is what it is.

 

Edit: Votto is probably down on the list because he missed 100 games one of those years.

 

Yes, the calculation and weighting can be debated as flawed.

 

My statement was not clear. What I mean to communicate is that the list is not a good measure of value nor a FA getting relative money stacks.

[Oz27]

If Newcomb turns out to be great it still doesn't mean it is an overpay until we see what Simmons can do. My experience is if both fan bases hate it then it is probably a pretty good deal.

Our fanbase clearly doesn't hate this deal. I do, it is a monstrosity of a mistake that I wish we could undo. But the overall feeling is somewhere between 'slight dislike' and 'slight support'.

The more I think about it, the more I think Eppler got absolutely schooled. Like the Wells deal there are aspects of this that seem entirely unnecessary. Most importantly, why did we give them Aybar? Were they really going to turn down Newcomb and Ellis for Simmons? I really struggle to believe that. Had we not given up Aybar in that deal, we could have kept him and played him at 2B to give us one of the best defensive infields ever. We could have tried him at 3B. We could have swapped up to improve the rotation (a similar deal with Orlando Cabrera once netted us a pretty solid pitcher in Jon Garland). We could have dealt him to help re-stock our incredibly weak farm system. Don't get me wrong, Newcomb and Ellis for Simmons still would have been a crappy deal. But we could have made it so much less crappy by not throwing in Aybar, which I can't accept the Braves insisted on.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Oz27

[Stradling]

I get what you're saying Oz but it's not like Eppler didn't negotiate. I have no idea if they would have accepted just the two pitchers or not. My guess is they wouldn't have because they valued the "flip-ability" of Aybar.

[Troll Daddy]

I'm sure we could of gotten Simmons straight up for Newcomb.

F'n Eppler

[beatlesrule]

Ugh, now people think the Braves would do the trade without Aybar?  The fans on this forum that are against the trade OVERVALUE their own teams players.  Eppler got the BEST(arguably) defensive SS in the game during his prime on a club friendly deal for 5 years for a 31 year old SS in his walk year that drives most of us crazy and 2 SP that may or may not be good or really good someday. Read this article

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/56835/andrelton-simmons-might-be-the-greatest-defensive-shortstop-ever

 

and move on already.

Edited December 1, 2015 by beatlesrule

[Oz27]

Ugh, now people think the Braves would do the trade without Aybar? The fans on this forum that are against the trade OVERVALUE their own teams players. Eppler got the BEST(arguably) defensive SS in the game during his prime on a club friendly deal for 5 years for a 31 year old SS in his walk year that drives most of us crazy and 2 SP that may or may not be good or really good someday. Read this article

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/56835/andrelton-simmons-might-be-the-greatest-defensive-shortstop-ever

and move on already.

Hahaha man, what a joke. You drink the kool aid all you like, it doesn't mean people are overvaluing their own players though.

[Troll Daddy]

Hahaha man, what a joke. You drink the kool aid all you like, it doesn't mean people are overvaluing their own players though.

you may not be drinking the kook aid but you're smoking some serious shit ... please don't bogart and pass it around.

[Docwaukee]

The Braves absolutely insisted upon getting Aybar.  They knew his value and now they have a tradeable chip for another deal.  I have to think that there is quite a bit of math in these deals.  Aybar was the most known quantity in this thing.  I think it got done because we undervalued our prospects.   The things I wonder about is if Eppler got any indications from other teams as to what a similar package would net him.  

 

I don't necessarily have a problem with pursuing a SS for 2016 when you are gonna need one in 2017.  Especially when we are playing for the next 5 years.  But is that the best player to be had with that package that helps the team the most for that time?  Not sure about that.  

[Oz27]

The Braves absolutely insisted upon getting Aybar.  They knew his value and now they have a tradeable chip for another deal.  I have to think that there is quite a bit of math in these deals.  Aybar was the most known quantity in this thing.  I think it got done because we undervalued our prospects.   The things I wonder about is if Eppler got any indications from other teams as to what a similar package would net him.  

 

I don't necessarily have a problem with pursuing a SS for 2016 when you are gonna need one in 2017.  Especially when we are playing for the next 5 years.  But is that the best player to be had with that package that helps the team the most for that time?  Not sure about that.  

If that is the case re Aybar - and I'm still not sure I agree, but lets say that it is - we absolutely should have walked away.