Braves talked to 15 teams about Simmons

[Second Base]

I think there should be an Angelswin challenge regarding prospects. Each person identifies their top 5 Angel prospects and provides an analysis (with major league projections) for each supporting their valuation. Sortof like a fantasy baseball type challenge.

That would be AWESOME! I'm releasing our top 30 next week and I know there's going to be a ton of differences between mine and others.

[Brent Maguire]

I still don't get the trade when other positions are in dire need. 

It would've been a dire need after 2016 and Simmons is super affordable at a tough position to fill. Aybar from in his mid-late 30's wouldn't have been ideal. 

[Adam]

Eppler got raped

[tdawg87]

Neither side seems to like the deal. I suppose that's encouraging to a degree. 

 

When it happened, I would have thought Braves fans and writers would be jumping for joy but none of them did.

[Troutstanding]

The poll that was posted here a few weeks ago was strongly in favor of the deal. My initial reaction was disgust, but quickly I grew to like the deal a lot.

[ABC]

It would've been a dire need after 2016 and Simmons is super affordable at a tough position to fill. Aybar from in his mid-late 30's wouldn't have been ideal. 

 

So what about 2015? Angels could sign Aybar for 2016 beyond and been more than fine.

Edited November 29, 2015 by CF8

[tdawg87]

So what about 2015? Angels could sign Aybar for 2016 beyond and been more than fine.

 

I assume you mean 2016.

 

Well, it's unlikely Newcomb and Ellis would have had a significant impact (or any impact) on the 2016 season, and Simmons is, at worst, Aybar's clone with better defense.

 

Aybar is going to be 33 in 2017 when he becomes a FA. While I'm sure he can remain an adequate SS for a couple more years, Simmons is just entering his prime and the Angels have him until he is 30.

 

Aybar will probably get a 4-5 year deal once he hits the market. I, for one, would much rather have Simmons over that period of time rather than a 33-37 year old Aybar.

Edited November 29, 2015 by tdawg87

[Adam]

I just heard the Braves offered Zobrist 5/54 and he said no

[Brent Maguire]

So what about 2015? Angels could sign Aybar for 2016 beyond and been more than fine.

You'd feel comfortable with Aybar in his mid 30's as a guy whose already showed signs of declining? I'm much more comfortable having a young, cost controlled shortstop who will be here during the Trout 2016-2020 time frame. 

[Oz27]

The Braves were selling hard and looking for a team willing to sacrifice top of the line prospects for a defensive wizard of a shortstop with serious questions with the bat. But teams willing to do it would instead describe it as a once in a lifetime opportunity to acquire a young elite SS, under a team friendly contract.

You know who else matches that description (all D, not bat) perfectly? Eric Stamets. You reaction Is probably "who?" The answer is, he's the prospect we gave up for David Murphy. Stamets is neither as good offensively or defensively as Simmons. But he'd probably be in the top 3 defensively and offer nothing at the plate. Simmons is the clear best in the field, and offers very little at the plate. But the end result really wouldn't be different at all. Each game, you'd witness a run saving grab, and a rally killing strikeout/groundout.

I won't say we sent Newcomb and Ellis off for nothing, but I will say that we SEVERELY overpaid, and now don't have to worry about SS for the next 5 years. I think if it were me, I probably would've kept Newcomb and dangled Ellis for a 2B or 3B.

I know I'm late to this party, but this is pretty damn funny...and this is coming from someone who thinks the Simmons trade was a giant clusterf**k.

[Jobu]

You'd feel comfortable with Aybar in his mid 30's as a guy whose already showed signs of declining? I'm much more comfortable having a young, cost controlled shortstop who will be here during the Trout 2016-2020 time frame.

Pujols is cost controlled.

[tdawg87]

Pujols is cost controlled.

 

What

[laagamer]

I still don't get the trade when other positions are in dire need.

I think any time you pick up the best defensive shortstop in baseball, its hard to argue with the move.

We still have other holes but this is definitely an upgrade.

[Docwaukee]

I'm not a fan of the simmons deal, but I get what eppler is trying to do.   He's gonna put a 26yo position player at each spot for the next five years and hope for the best.  

 

Newcomb is a #1.  Not just some guy that that ends up their by default, but a true #1.  He lead the minors in strikeouts.    Largely irrelevant, but still interesting. 

 

the reason the braves talked to 15 teams and chose the halos?  you do the math.  We gave up more than anyone else was willing to.  

 

I can't help but thin that there could have been a more appropriate use of those resources to accommodate the five year plan.  

[Brent Maguire]

I'm not a fan of the simmons deal, but I get what eppler is trying to do.   He's gonna put a 26yo position player at each spot for the next five years and hope for the best.  

 

Newcomb is a #1.  Not just some guy that that ends up their by default, but a true #1.  He lead the minors in strikeouts.    Largely irrelevant, but still interesting. 

 

the reason the braves talked to 15 teams and chose the halos?  you do the math.  We gave up more than anyone else was willing to.  

 

I can't help but thin that there could have been a more appropriate use of those resources to accommodate the five year plan.  

If he harnesses his command, which isn't a given. He still had a very high walk total. Although, I'm a huge fan of the guy and think his floor is still pretty high just based on his raw ability to miss bats. He should be a mid rotation guy at the very least and will most likely be better than that.

 

And about your last point, I still believe the team filled a hole. Aybar's drop in offense and defense was quit worrisome. He could bounce back to a 2-3 WAR guy again but his age may limit how much more he had in the tank. Simmons is giving the team a super high floor and some upside at one of the toughest positions to fill. While upgrading at 2B, LF or 3B may have been more ideal for 2016, I like that Eppler looked beyond 2016 and saw he could fill a spot which needed attention after next year.

[beatlesrule]

Simmons hits pretty well for me in MLB 15 The Show:p

[m0nkey]

I just heard the Braves offered Zobrist 5/54 and he said no

What could you possibly know about the braves and their front office?

[Jobu]

What

I thought we were redefining "cost controlled" from "players with several years of team control at league minimum and arbitration" to "guys who have contracts for several years". Because that's the only way the phrase makes sense applied to a guy with a $50M+ contract.

[Stradling]

Would you prefer the term "Cost Certainty"?

[Jobu]

If that's what the poster meant, but again, that applies to anybody with a lengthy contract.

What I was disputing is the idea that because Simmons is young and signed a contract young, that it is therefore team friendly. The Braves got the team friendly portion of the contract out of the way and gave us the part that Simmons signed up for. The Angels will pay him more than they ever paid Aybar for the same years and even if the defensive metrics say he's "worth it" that doesn't make it team friendly, "cost controlled", or a steal.

[ABC]

You'd feel comfortable with Aybar in his mid 30's as a guy whose already showed signs of declining? I'm much more comfortable having a young, cost controlled shortstop who will be here during the Trout 2016-2020 time frame. 

 

In a vacuum, over the next five years I prefer Simmons over Aybar to be the Angels SS. However there are more positions in need and I believe Aybar will be above average for the next few years. I don't understand why people continue to reply to me with the premise that SS is the only position on the roster. There is a larger picture.

 

Eppler may have funked up the Trout window with this trade. It is yet to be determined if the trade is good or bad. IMO, Eppler gave away way too much even if SS was a weak spot, which it isn't.

[Stradling]

Aybar wasn't above average this last season, now it very well could have been a down year, but when you get above 30, there is also a chance that he is starting to decline. Oh and I fully understand there are a bunch, even several positions on a baseball team. As for the larger picture, I am sure Eppler is well aware, maybe even slightly more aware than yourself, if that is possible about the bigger picture.

We went from someone that in my opinion was in decline, especially defensively, to the best defensive short stop the game has seen in at least 10-20 years and the guy will hit about the same as Aybar last year, if he doesn't improve. Was it a questionable use of resources, maybe. But a run saved is no different than a run scored, and no one in baseball saves more runs than Simmons.

[ABC]

I think Aybar will be an above average SS for the next few years on both side of the ball. Time will tell if I am wrong. While I appreciate defense more than most, I value defense less these days because hitters do not put the ball in play as often and aren't embarrassed to strike out. Simmons is going to be a blast to watch but I don't think that it was a position that required to trade away Newcomb.

Edited November 29, 2015 by CF8

[Stradling]

I think Aybar will be an above average SS for the next few years on both side of the ball. Time will tell if I am wrong. While I appreciate defense more than most, I value defense less these days because hitters do not put the ball in play as often and aren't embarrassed to strike out. Simmons is going to be a blast to watch but I don't think that it was a position that required to trade away Newcomb.

I get it, I really do, but Eppler values Simmons that highly. It could be as simple as he feels he can solve the other issues through free agency, but didn't think going forward he would be able to solve Aybar vs Father Time. It would be an excellent question for you to ask Eppler if we are able to get him for FanFest and if you are able to make it.

[seenoevil]

Eppier got raped rofl