Was Scioscia's managing performance in 2002 a fluke?

[The God of Runs]

I've finally had it with this guy. I really liked him before, but not anymore. Yes, he made the playoffs several times after the championship. But, I don't think he did anything really special. He just had a better overall roster to work with. That's why I think the main reason we won in 2002 was because of Stoneman. And, another factor is if you look at the years when the Halos made the playoffs, I think the biggest reason was the other AL West teams were just not that good. Now put Scioscia in a situation where the AL West is filled with much better teams, he gets exposed.

So, yeah, was Scioscia basically lucky to have Glaus, Salmon, GA, Eckstein, Frankie, Percy and the rest of the gang?

[martinpa25]

The real reason for success in the mid '00's two words....joe maddon

[Jason]

No, he had players that got it done and played with a sense of purpose.

[tdawg87]

lol

[RallyMo]

So you're telling me that a better roster is better?

Fascinating.

[Jobu]

What's a "managing performance"?

[Broad Street]

The dude is a stubborn idiot, and I mean that with all due respect. I'm sure he's a good guy, and maybe a good manager or coach, just not with the Angels anymore. When you think of a change, think Speedy Oil Change.

I mean, seriously. What does Grant Green have to do to supplant Ibanez? HOW DOES IBANEZ STAY IN THE LINEUP OVER ANYBODY?! And you all said I was insane when I wanted Shuck over Ibanez...

[JarsOfClay]

i stumbled on an article tj simers did in 2012 and it was pretty accurate in describing scioscia.  it's the same shit going on for 5 years now.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/26/sports/la-sp-simers-angels-20120427

[gotbeer]

Well, there were like 4 managers on the 2002 team.

[JAHV76]

So Joe Maddon, Bud Black, and Ron Roenicke have winning records since they left the Angels? Was that the point because they haven't won the World Series.

Edited June 6, 2014 by JAHV76

[UndertheHalo]

I think you guys should look up the freeway at our buddies in Chavez Ravine.  You may note how Donnie Baseball is working on turning his clubhouse full of diva's against him.  You never ever hear about that stuff out of Sosh's teams who, by the way are also loaded with star personalities.  Thats a big part of managing, keeping the team together.  There is only so much this guy can do when the line up refuses to preform with RISP.  Or when the bullpen constantly implodes.  Or when our 3 hitter decides to go ice cold for a month.  Or when our "best" pitcher cant make it out of first inning against the best team in the league.  I actually think Scoscia has done a pretty solid job so far with this roster this year.  I think if you asked most of us if we would take our record now (early in june) at the beginning of the season most of us would have taken it hoped for some good times down the stretch.  Yes, the last week or so has stunk, but we are due for a hot streak as well.  The team will continue to compete this year.  I dont know, maybe its just me, but I didnt expect much this year anyway.  Getting rid of a reliable, and respected manager is not gonna make things better for this team.  Side note: the stubborness with veterans is annoying.  But I dont think it can go on much longer with Ibanez.  No body is perfect.

Edited June 6, 2014 by UndertheHalo

[Vegas Halo Fan]

The real reason for success in the mid '00's two words....joe maddon

 

I believe that Maddon's presence in the clubhouse and on the bench is greatly underrated, and his impact on the club underestimated and under-appreciated (generally speaking). It seems like ever since Maddon went to Tampa, strange decisions started being made in the Angels dugout rather than ones that were usually right.

[EDinTUSTIN]

So Joe Maddon, Bud Black, and Ron Roenicke have winning records since they left the Angels? Was that the point because they haven't won the World Series.

True, but to be fair they haven't had the payroll and an easy spending owner like Sosh has, either.

[ukyah]

we all can argue back and forth, but one thing many, if not most, could agree on is it's the same old angels day after day after day. we are settling in as a middling franchise and i'm not cool with it. 

 

it's hard to feel positive about this team for very long.

[fan_since79]

If it hadn't been for Scott Spiezio's epic at-bat in the 7th inning and Erstad's leadoff home run in the 8th in Game 6, we would have lost that Series. Even after Glaus' double gave us the lead, Scioscia still chose to "overmanage" by having Jose Molina bunt with ONE out. That was one of the strangest calls I've ever seen. Giving away outs in the 8th inning of an elimination game in a World Series after you've taken a one-run lead is just plain crazy.

Edited June 6, 2014 by fan_since79

[Docwaukee]

His success from 2002-2009 has way more to do with who was on the field than who was sitting next to him in the dugout. 

 

In those years, they had a .563 winning % in the 592 games (333 wins) decided by 2 runs or fewer.  2nd best in the majors.  with a pythag of .521 (308 wins).  A +25 difference from where they probably should have been.  Or about 3 wins per year. 

 

In games decided by 3 runs or less, a .561 % in 801 games (449 wins).  2nd best win %.  pythag of .525. 

 

From 2010 to now, our win pct in games decided by 2 runs or less is .508.  Pythag is .507. 

 

To me, this has occurred because we have had shitty bullpens the last few years, but they are being managed as if they are not shitty.  Today's game was the perfect example.  This is a failure of both Dipoto and Scioscia.  Dipoto should know his managers tendencies and give him the pieces he needs to be successful based on his style.  Scioscia should be able to recognize that he doesn't have that same pieces he's had in the past and to stop jamming the square peg in the round hole.  Make a damn adjustment.  If you don't have three interchangeable solid relievers beyond your top two, stop using them as if they are. 

[Hollyw00d]

True, but to be fair they haven't had the payroll and an easy spending owner like Sosh has, either.

it can be argued that the team would be much better off right now if arte hadn't spent money (and played GM)

[Season Over]

Scott Brooks is either the Mike Scioscia of basketball, or Mike Scioscia is the Scott Brooks of baseball.

[mp170.6]

People like to call Tony La Russa out for being arrogant, but Mike Scioscia is worse IMHO.  Far worse. 

 

Yes, La Russa insisted on doing things his way, but the guy did reach the World Series with 6 different teams!  He wasn't the type to publicly acknowledge his mistakes, but was smart enough to see his flaws and make adjustments. 

 

Scioscia's arrogance, on the other hand, is in another stratosphere.  He rationalizes and defends every mistake as some sort of mysterious strategy and keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over and over and over again because he's too proud to change.  After all, that would reveal his weaknesses and culpability, and we wouldn't want that to happen.  He would rather watch the Angels lose than stand before the media and admit the Angels are losing because of his mismanaging.  

[RallyMo]

If it hadn't been for Scott Spiezio's epic at-bat in the 7th inning and Erstad's leadoff home run in the 8th in Game 6, we would have lost that Series.

No crap, numbnutz.

[stormngt]

Madden did an incredible helping the Angels win the division in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2009. However in am sure the Rays were passed because he was the manager if Tampa at those times.

The real reason for success in the mid '00's two words....joe maddon

[Kevin]

I think Doc said it perfectly. Make adjustments for crying out loud. One example is the bullpen. We all know the Angels have a crappy bullpen (although with the recent call ups, we hope it is improving). I'm sure Mike has brought in a reliever that is inheriting runners and subsequently allows them to score. I can't think of any off the top of my head and maybe that's because he brings in Salas time and time again more than anyone.

Make a change. If you give everyone a shot and they blow it, fine. At least Mike can say he has no options. I'm not sure why Salas gets the majority of chances with the game on the line to end a threat.

[stormngt]

especially since Madden went to the Rays in 2006. How many AL titles did we win after he left?????

I believe that Maddon's presence in the clubhouse and on the bench is greatly underrated, and his impact on the club underestimated and under-appreciated (generally speaking). It seems like ever since Maddon went to Tampa, strange decisions started being made in the Angels dugout rather than ones that were usually right.

[19HALO71]

I have often compared the 2002 Angels managing staff to a one hit wonder type of band. They have some success and then every member thinks they are better off alone. Ultimately, they do nothing that ever compares to the work they did together.

[Spirit]

i stumbled on an article tj simers did in 2012 and it was pretty accurate in describing scioscia.  it's the same shit going on for 5 years now.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/26/sports/la-sp-simers-angels-20120427

 

 

Stumbling upon a Simers article on the Angels is like stumbling upon a MSNBC story on the GOP ... or a Fox News story on Obama.