Game of Thrones

[NJHalo]

[Chimi]

50 minutes ago, red321 said:

I agree that the desire to rush to the finish line has hurt the overall story.

  Hide contents

 

Everyone seems to have forgotten the past seasons...hell, they killed off the main character at the end of Season 1 and turned weddings into massacres. A gradual portrayal of Daenerys turning into the Mad Queen wouldn't seem to have come out of left field. They could have spent this season dealing with the white walkers while building on the hints they've dropped over the years (talking about burning cities to the ground on multiple occasions, burning people alive). Instead you go from Daenerys riding to the rescue and saving Westeros from the White Walkers to arguably being worse than the Night King in 2 episodes. The story will end the same, it just feels rushed and instead you get the plot and time constraints driving massive character changes.

Overall though...last night's episode, viewed by itself, was pretty amazing. You can quibble about a few things like who gives a shit about Euron or why did Jamie and Cersei get to die in each others arms, but it was jaw dropping at times...and while the bells were ringing we all sat there hoping, just like Jon and Tyrion...hoping...only to let out a small gasp when the inevitable happened and she said F*ck it.

Oh...and right now...how many people who named their little girls Daenerys or Khalessi are going...ummmm....

 

 

You're all right about this.  I see a lot of comments on other boards about her and I think to myself, didn't any of these people watch the previous seasons?  Daenerys has shown in almost every season that she can make some pretty ruthless decisions.  She's not all there in the head.  If it wasn't for her advisers along the way talking her out of some things, she would have done some pretty horrific things in the show already.  Now she doesn't have any advisers to talk her off the ledge and look what happens.

Also...

I'm glad they had Drogon destroy everything and there was no fight put up.  It's been told that the Targaryans were in power because no one could stop their dragons.  They would annihilate everyone with them.  So Drogon going through Kings Landing and single handily destroying it shouldn't be a shocker.  A lot of people are complaining they couldn't hit him with the Scorpions, but those things don't turn very well and even then, hitting a moving target isn't easy.  Also, I think they just wanted to show a complete ass whooping anyway.  Jamie foreshadowed it to Cersei a few times.  He told her there was no way they would be able to kill her dragon after Drogon tore up the Lannister army last season.  He also warned Cersei about betraying the north.  "If the dead win, they march south and kill us all.  If the living win, they march south, and kill us all."  Well, she betrayed the North and now shes dead because of it.

[Blarg]

The obvious ending is

Spoiler

Jon, who renounces the throne at every step, dies as the tragic hero, killing the last dragon. Arya fulfills her destiny as asssisn and kills her third despot ruler, bumping off Daenerys and Sansa rises to the throne with Bran as her Hand and Brienne as her general. The story, all along, has been more about the scheming women and the men were mostly pawns. 

Bron and Tyrion ride off to drink and screw whores.

 

[red321]

Spoiler

 

flashbacks highlighting that...turn...was a long time coming...

https://io9.gizmodo.com/that-sudden-game-of-thrones-turn-was-actually-a-long-ti-1834722527?jwsource=cl

 

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

I thought this was a really fantastic episode. Sure the story is rushed and boy do I still have issues, but most of them result from past decisions. I thought the turn was glorious. When the bells ring and the Lannister forces lay down their weapons Danny realizes she’s won. They give her a moment to let it wash over her, everything she’s fought her entire life for is now hers, and she feels nothing. She looks up at the red keep, the center of the city her family built, and all she can think about is everything that she lost and what had been taken from her. 

I wish this had been a 10 episode season... in fact I wish the first half of this season was its own season as well. If they could’ve given some more screen time to build up these character turns I think we’d see a lot less complaining.

The one thing I did have an issue with was Jaime’s ending. I didn’t think he needed to kill Cerci but he needed a heroic moment, not something that makes you believe his hate-filled breakup with Brianne was honest. D&D would have you believe that his redemption arc was the character equivalent of the night king.

[well_red]

5 hours ago, Blarg said:

The obvious ending is

Spoiler

I'm on board with everything you said but can't see a Stark having any rights to the throne - Gendry ftw!

Personally I loved the episode and it pretty much went how I thought it should (not how i thought the writer's would go though).  But still don't understand why Cersei would kill Missandei in cold blood but not fill Tyrion with arrows when she had the chance.  

 

[cez]

been following most of these characters for 20+ years, and it's super gratifying to see how it's all ending.  

zero complaints from me this season.....well, except i wish lady stoneheart had somehow been included.

[NJHalo]

Regarding Jamie and Cersai, 

Spoiler

Are we sure they are dead? It sure looked that way, but how does anyone in the show know for sure? Danny knows she trashed the keep, but no one saw her die. Tyrion knows there are lots of secret passageways under the keep. Without a body....?

 

[Chimi]

The Inside the Episode made it seem like they were dead. With one episode left, there’s really no reason for them to still be alive.

It seems a lot of people are complaining because things aren’t happening the way they thought they would.

People loved this show for being unpredictable...and now they’re mad because the show is being unpredictable. 

[Brandon]

58 minutes ago, Chimi said:

The Inside the Episode made it seem like they were dead. With one episode left, there’s really no reason for them to still be alive.

It seems a lot of people are complaining because things aren’t happening the way they thought they would.

People loved this show for being unpredictable...and now they’re mad because the show is being unpredictable. 

100%

I'm not a big social media dude or conversationalist anymore with strangers, but most of what I'm seeing is people mad that their ideas or interpretations aren't actual writing material for the show. I enjoy it for what it is. Some people seem to think the writers need to cater to their expectations or thought processes. Esquire is on my feed (back when it was more like GQ than a list of GoT articles for clicks) and they are the worst and most contrarian thing I've ever seen....even worse than ALF here. They just hate to hate and try and justify it.

Just a shame. It's just a TV show.

[red321]

10 hours ago, Brandon said:

100%

I'm not a big social media dude or conversationalist anymore with strangers, but most of what I'm seeing is people mad that their ideas or interpretations aren't actual writing material for the show. I enjoy it for what it is. Some people seem to think the writers need to cater to their expectations or thought processes. Esquire is on my feed (back when it was more like GQ than a list of GoT articles for clicks) and they are the worst and most contrarian thing I've ever seen....even worse than ALF here. They just hate to hate and try and justify it.

Just a shame. It's just a TV show.

I hadn't read any of the equire recaps until now.

Wow. Seriously butthurt. it's like they have a fantasy prom in their mind and it's all gone wrong.

[Stradling]

The actress that plays Cersei essentially said her goodbye on Social Media after the episode.  Also pointed out is that she died on an episode that aired on Mother’s Day where her father in the show died on an episode that aired on Father’s Day.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

15 hours ago, Chimi said:

People loved this show for being unpredictable...and now they’re mad because the show is being unpredictable. 

People did NOT love the show for being unpredictable, they loved they show for being realistic in place of giving in to dramatic tropes. Ned's central arc leads to him having to choose between maintaining his honor and sparing his life and the future of his family. Traditional drama dictates that the hero finds a way to keep his honor while also saving his own life. GoT has Ned choose life over honor, only for him to lose his life anyway. This isn't unpredictable, it's true to the decisions made and the reality of the situation. Unpredictable would have been Arya jumping in from behind and stabbing Joffery in the chest.

The other thing is, storytelling rules and tropes exist for a reason. They are very often the BEST way of telling a story, that's why they became tropes. The hero escaping certain death is what the audience wants, but when it happens every time we become numb to the stakes involved in the story. A great storyteller knows the rules so that he knows when he should break them. This is the brilliance of killing off Ned and Robb, and reviving Jon. Jon's rebirth has no weight without the deaths that came before it. 

All the 'subversions' of expectations have served the story going forward. At the end there isn't anything wrong with defying expectations, as long as they remain true to the characters and the decisions serve the story. It all comes down to execution, and the reason people have had issues is because of that lack of execution. 

[UndertheHalo]

[RallyMo]

They're idiots for squeezing this into 6 episodes. They could have done this right with the same storyline unfolding over 10 or so.

[AngelsLakersFan]

7 hours ago, RallyMo said:

They're idiots for squeezing this into 6 episodes. They could have done this right with the same storyline unfolding over 10 or so.

The first 3 episodes feel like they fit better into season 7 (which was already just 7 episodes). I think they could've pulled it off with seasons 7 and 8 taking place over 3 10 episode seasons. Instead they took the opposite approach and condensed it to get it all over with. As much as I love Danny's turn and felt it was justified I agree with all the people who thought it happened too fast, much like the Jon & Danny love story itself.

[Blarg]

5 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

As much as I love Danny's turn and felt it was justified I agree with all the people who thought it happened too fast, much like the Jon & Danny love story itself.

Happened too fast? She has been a psycho bitch since her first season. There have been people keeping her inner Mad King in check but this was the battle she lived her whole life for and was never going to accept a surrender. Dragging that storyline out any longer is a waste, there is no longer any reason to stall. There was no more backstory to reveal, it's killing time for the warrior queen. 

Now the survivors have to decide how to kill this bitch before she toasts them all. Jami was the Kingslayer, now someone has to step up and be the Queenslayer before she burns the entire world to the ground. She is not going to have a triumphant ending.

[Brandon]

Yeah, the Dany turning crazy arc is a long time coming. There are plenty of articles out there that show the progression. People are dense if they think this came out of the blue or was rushed.

I'm not a writer nor am I going to tell anyone how to do their job, but I too thought they could have made this a full season opposed to what kind of feels like a rush to wrap it up. Maybe there are budget issues as this show is highly expensive. I don't mind this season, but the pacing versus previous seasons is noticeable.

[red321]

[AngelsLakersFan]

For sure, this was always Danny's inevitable conclusion, that Im not disagreeing with. I am a big fan of her turn, as I said. But there are a couple issues at play here.

For the entirety of the show she has been about protecting the innocent. She has shown flashes of her Targaryan violence many times before but it was always arguably justifiable. Here she is literally mowing down thousands of screaming civilians, women and children. I mean this is easily the worst thing anyone on the show has ever done! I would have liked to have seen some sort of smaller scale moment that could compare somewhere in a previous episode. Alternatively they could've changed the circumstances a bit, made her a little less violent, like say just burning up the soldiers after they surrendered, ignoring the citizens and then destroying the red keep.  

The other issue is that she was fine just last week. She was strangely jubilant at the big party after defeating the Night King... things didn't turn sour until after Tormond started talking up Jon Snow and she got all jealous. This is where the lack of episodes really hurts. I don't see why these last three episodes couldn't, or shouldn't have been 10. Give us more time to buy in to this characters decent into darkness.

[AngelsLakersFan]

https://www.change.org/p/hbo-remake-game-of-thrones-season-8-with-competent-writers

Lol... by the time you read this the petition will be signed by over 1 million people.

[Blarg]

1 million idiots. 

[Brandon]

Of course some dude named Brandon was going to run this shit in the end.

[RallyMo]

18 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Of course some dude named Brandon was going to run this shit in the end.

"Tyrion, you HAVE to watch Eastern Promises. You just have to."

[RallyMo]

They really should have gone 10 episodes. It wasn't awful, but this should have been better.