Do you think we're done...

[floplag]

18 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

And don't get me wrong.  What's left on the FA market is dookie.  But if the option is to go into the season with what we have right now vs. adding someone of league average value to create some mediocre redundancy, then I choose the latter.  I'll even take someone like Josh Harrison over leaving it alone.  

This
The problem i that this is what were down to, it never should have happened. 
Its last call and were still dancing alone. 

[Angel Oracle]

20 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Everyone wants a 4th OF bring back Calhoun. He was a fan favorite

He’s fallen off drastically after 2020, low .600s OPS.    Can get someone better for 4th OF.

[Warfarin]

6 minutes ago, floplag said:

This
The problem i that this is what were down to, it never should have happened. 
Its last call and were still dancing alone. 

Not necessarily.  As fans, we just tend to see what is on the open market and have "brand name recognition," but a lot of very savvy GMs are able to find value even late in the game.

Just as an example, but Minasian swung his trade for Cobb late in the offseason, and Cobb went on to have a fantastic season for us.  There are always opportunities available.

[EdmontonAngelsFan]

On 12/18/2022 at 10:36 AM, Stradling said:

It’s Canada

This is one Canadian who disagrees with him.

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

Not necessarily.  As fans, we just tend to see what is on the open market and have "brand name recognition," but a lot of very savvy GMs are able to find value even late in the game.

Just as an example, but Minasian swung his trade for Cobb late in the offseason, and Cobb went on to have a fantastic season for us.  There are always opportunities available.

It isnt about brand names, its about impact.
I would be just as happy to swing a trade for a SS, but the reality is that we dont have the farm to trade for an impact SS, unless we take on a bad contract or give up guys we shouldnt be giving up in controllable young starters we actually also need.  Weakening one area to buff another is generally a zero sum equation.
But the simple fact is that SS is the one place that we most needed to upgrade.
If Perry can somehow swing a deal hat doesnt cost us Suarez or Sandoval to get the SS we need, no one will be happier than I, but he has zero leverage right now and every team he calls knows it.
Thats what position he never should have let himself get put in. 

[HanfordGuy]

Almost???

[Warfarin]

30 minutes ago, floplag said:

It isnt about brand names, its about impact.
I would be just as happy to swing a trade for a SS, but the reality is that we dont have the farm to trade for an impact SS, unless we take on a bad contract or give up guys we shouldnt be giving up in controllable young starters we actually also need.  Weakening one area to buff another is generally a zero sum equation.
But the simple fact is that SS is the one place that we most needed to upgrade.
If Perry can somehow swing a deal hat doesnt cost us Suarez or Sandoval to get the SS we need, no one will be happier than I, but he has zero leverage right now and every team he calls knows it.
Thats what position he never should have let himself get put in. 

The trade market has basically been dead.  I don't think teams were looking to actively part with their SSs.  That said, my point was that deals can still be made later, too.  Historically, a lot of deals have come late in the MLB offseason.  This is not the NBA and NFL where every deal of note is basically done within a few weeks of the start of the offseason.

If the "worst case" scenario pans out and we have Fletcher as our SS, while that isn't the best outcome, he is still probably a 1.5-2.0 fWAR starter out there, which isn't awful.  Soto's emergence late last season at least raises the possibility that we might actually have some decent depth, as opposed to having to rely on Velazquez.  SS wasn't as dire for us as OF, where it was basically untenable to start the season with a Moniak/Adell combination in LF.  We didn't have a legit MLB OF for one of our starting spots, and Perry did very proactively rectify that.  He also proactively found a SP at what turned out to be a relative bargain.

But yes, I do think we need at least one more solid option, to push Velazquez further down the totem poll.

[beatlesrule]

See I was right, they signed Justin Garza. Another little tiny signing like that might still happen.

[Pancake Bear]

On 12/18/2022 at 9:48 AM, CanadianHalo said:

 

You guys do this every year. It’s hilarious. Last year my total win prediction post kept getting deleted because it’s viewed as “trolling”. Funny thing is I predicted they’d win 4 more games than they actually did.

This year as it stands right now is very similar to last.

They were a good team last, they just had zero depth. Injuries exposed them and they fell into a massive slump. But sure you were right because their talent level was clearly equivalent to their two best offensive players (and another all-star playing injured) missing most of the year. Sorry, but pretending you predicted it because injuries happened to get your guess close is hilariously dense. It's like clubbing the golf ball and still getting a good result because it rolled down the hill.

[CanadianHalo]

2 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

They were a good team last, they just had zero depth. Injuries exposed them and they fell into a massive slump. But sure you were right because their talent level was clearly equivalent to their two best offensive players (and another all-star playing injured) missing most of the year. Sorry, but pretending you predicted it because injuries happened to get your guess close is hilariously dense. It's like clubbing the golf ball and still getting a good result because it rolled down the hill.

Lmao they were NOT a good team last year. Yeah it was really hard to predict that Rendon and Trout would miss time once again. Spoiler alert, they’ll miss time again this year too

[Pancake Bear]

1 hour ago, CanadianHalo said:

Lmao they were NOT a good team last year. Yeah it was really hard to predict that Rendon and Trout would miss time once again. Spoiler alert, they’ll miss time again this year too

They were a top 4 team the first two months. When did that end? Oh, right: When injuries started piling up and their lack of depth got exposed. So, they build up depth, and the genius from Canada thinks they'll suck. Brilliant. 

[CanadianHalo]

17 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

They were a top 4 team the first two months. When did that end? Oh, right: When injuries started piling up and their lack of depth got exposed. So, they build up depth, and the genius from Canada thinks they'll suck. Brilliant. 

Well they haven’t finished above .500 since 2015 so what about the other 6 seasons? Like I said, it’s the same song and dance every off season with so many of you. You guys get in your feelings when someone suggests that this team still stinks. As it stands right now Perry hasn’t done enough to change that. 

We were a 73 win team last season. 73. We got a MVP season from Ohtani. Sandoval and Detmers were pretty damn good. I’m not sure Sandy and Detmers perform as good as they did last year. No one is expecting Anderson to do what he did last season. Heck, Anderson himself doesn’t even think so or he wouldn’t have signed for that price. I could go on but there’s really no point. 

Perry is clearly out of money. He’ll need to get creative and make a trade. Problem is we don’t exactly have much to trade. I can’t imagine Perry wants to part with O’Hoppe or Neto. So many of us have said the Angels need to spend their way out of this mess. Arte has refused to do that. Hopefully it’ll be different with the new owners but until  then it’ll be the same old this season.

[Stradling]

Canadians are the worst. Virtually all of them. Obviously @EdmontonAngelsFan is the exception 

[Docwaukee]

They really are setting themselves up for failure if they don't do some strong work on the position player side of things before the season begins.  Outside of the major league roster they really only have legit major league depth at C.  They need to construct this roster to at least partially overcome that.  

C - Ohoppe
SS/2b - Soto/Velazquez/Stefanic
1b/3b - ?
OF - Adell and Moniak
UTIL - Jackson maybe.  

If they have to go to the minor league well for position players, they're screwed.  

I think their best bet at this point is doubling and tripling down on roster flexibility in the form of guys who are actually decent players.  So I'd like to see Profar and Anderson.  Which would give us the following:

C - Stassi/Thaiss/Ohoppe/Wallach
1b - Walsh/Urshela/Profar/Thaiss/Anderson/Renfroe
2b - Rengifo/Fletcher/Profar/Urshela/Stefanic/Rendon
3b - Rendon/Urshela/Profar/Anderson/Rengifo/Fletcher
SS - Fletcher/Rengifo/Profar/Urshela/Soto/Velazquez
LF - Ward/Anderson/Profar/Moniak/Adell/Walsh
RF - Renfroe/Anderson/Profar/Moniak/Adell/Walsh
CF - Trout/Ward/Moniak/Renfroe/Adell/Adams
DH - Ohtani etc. 

That makes us about 6 deep almost everywhere without having to tap into the minors hardly at all.  

The cost of Profar and Anderson would likely mean that there'd be no more shopping for pitching, but after comparing what we have in terms of both major and minor league depth on the pitching side vs. the position player side, I think I could live with where we're at with pitching.  

[Warfarin]

5 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

They really are setting themselves up for failure if they don't do some strong work on the position player side of things before the season begins.  Outside of the major league roster they really only have legit major league depth at C.  They need to construct this roster to at least partially overcome that.  

C - Ohoppe
SS/2b - Soto/Velazquez/Stefanic
1b/3b - ?
OF - Adell and Moniak
UTIL - Jackson maybe.  

If they have to go to the minor league well for position players, they're screwed.  

I think their best bet at this point is doubling and tripling down on roster flexibility in the form of guys who are actually decent players.  So I'd like to see Profar and Anderson.  Which would give us the following:

C - Stassi/Thaiss/Ohoppe/Wallach
1b - Walsh/Urshela/Profar/Thaiss/Anderson/Renfroe
2b - Rengifo/Fletcher/Profar/Urshela/Stefanic/Rendon
3b - Rendon/Urshela/Profar/Anderson/Rengifo/Fletcher
SS - Fletcher/Rengifo/Profar/Urshela/Soto/Velazquez
LF - Ward/Anderson/Profar/Moniak/Adell/Walsh
RF - Renfroe/Anderson/Profar/Moniak/Adell/Walsh
CF - Trout/Ward/Moniak/Renfroe/Adell/Adams
DH - Ohtani etc. 

That makes us about 6 deep almost everywhere without having to tap into the minors hardly at all.  

The cost of Profar and Anderson would likely mean that there'd be no more shopping for pitching, but after comparing what we have in terms of both major and minor league depth on the pitching side vs. the position player side, I think I could live with where we're at with pitching.  

Yeah, I agree.  There's still a good amount of time to find those kinds of players, too.  I know the last month has been slow, but I don't think Perry's done either.

Perry mentioned depth a number of times in terms of what he's focusing on.  I'd be shocked to not see him add at least 1-2 more players.

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

Yeah, I agree.  There's still a good amount of time to find those kinds of players, too.  I know the last month has been slow, but I don't think Perry's done either.

Perry mentioned depth a number of times in terms of what he's focusing on.  I'd be shocked to not see him add at least 1-2 more players.

I think he is working on trades to acquire a MI. Player would have to be strong on defense with rule changes and a SB type player.

[Angels 1961]

8 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

They really are setting themselves up for failure if they don't do some strong work on the position player side of things before the season begins.  Outside of the major league roster they really only have legit major league depth at C.  They need to construct this roster to at least partially overcome that.  

C - Ohoppe
SS/2b - Soto/Velazquez/Stefanic
1b/3b - ?
OF - Adell and Moniak
UTIL - Jackson maybe.  

If they have to go to the minor league well for position players, they're screwed.  

I think their best bet at this point is doubling and tripling down on roster flexibility in the form of guys who are actually decent players.  So I'd like to see Profar and Anderson.  Which would give us the following:

C - Stassi/Thaiss/Ohoppe/Wallach
1b - Walsh/Urshela/Profar/Thaiss/Anderson/Renfroe
2b - Rengifo/Fletcher/Profar/Urshela/Stefanic/Rendon
3b - Rendon/Urshela/Profar/Anderson/Rengifo/Fletcher
SS - Fletcher/Rengifo/Profar/Urshela/Soto/Velazquez
LF - Ward/Anderson/Profar/Moniak/Adell/Walsh
RF - Renfroe/Anderson/Profar/Moniak/Adell/Walsh
CF - Trout/Ward/Moniak/Renfroe/Adell/Adams
DH - Ohtani etc. 

That makes us about 6 deep almost everywhere without having to tap into the minors hardly at all.  

The cost of Profar and Anderson would likely mean that there'd be no more shopping for pitching, but after comparing what we have in terms of both major and minor league depth on the pitching side vs. the position player side, I think I could live with where we're at with pitching.  

Profar is no longer a SS and would want to go somewhere he can be a starter. I wonder if Zack Greinke would sign with Angels. KC just signed Lyles, so their rotation is set.

[BTH]

At this point, I think the Angels will take a similar approach to the one they took last offseason.

Before the lockout, they signed Syndergaard, Loup, Lorenzen, and Iglesias.

After the lockout, during Spring Training, they signed Tepera, Bradley, and Duffy.

This offseason, they did their early work with Anderson, Urshela, Renfroe, and Estévez.

I’d imagine they fill out the rest of the roster (6th SP, another RP, another position player) in late January/early February when the remaining players start feeling pressure to sign.

[Revad]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

Profar is no longer a SS and would want to go somewhere he can be a starter. I wonder if Zack Greinke would sign with Angels. KC just signed Lyles, so their rotation is set.

But a player that can cover OF and IF corners with a league average bat would be extremely useful.

[totdprods]

32 minutes ago, Trendon said:

At this point, I think the Angels will take a similar approach to the one they took last offseason.

Before the lockout, they signed Syndergaard, Loup, Lorenzen, and Iglesias.

After the lockout, during Spring Training, they signed Tepera, Bradley, and Duffy.

This offseason, they did their early work with Anderson, Urshela, Renfroe, and Estévez.

I’d imagine they fill out the rest of the roster (6th SP, another RP, another position player) in late January/early February when the remaining players start feeling pressure to sign.

Yup they’ve switched to opportunistic mode now from being proactive.

They really need depth across the board imo. Outfield, bullpen, rotation, catcher, and maybe another infielder. I dunno. I feel better about Fletcher, Rengifo, Urshela, Soto, and Velazquez than most here, at least versus Andrus and others as options.

I’ll go on record in saying that if they don’t add at least one more vet SP to the mix, it’ll come back to bite them. Doesn’t have to be something flashy, but counting on the young guns to stay healthy and productive and the depth to cover #6 is skating on thin ice. Good teams have good depth. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by totdprods

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Revad said:

But a player that can cover OF and IF corners with a league average bat would be extremely useful.

I think they’re trying to do that with Urshela based off comments when they acquired him. In fact, they basically said he’d be doing that.

Edited December 20, 2022 by totdprods

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Profar is no longer a SS and would want to go somewhere he can be a starter. I wonder if Zack Greinke would sign with Angels. KC just signed Lyles, so their rotation is set.

No to Grienke and his 88 mph fastball. The guy is in late Weaver stage of career end. 

[Warfarin]

42 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Yup they’ve switched to opportunistic mode now from being proactive.

They really need depth across the board imo. Outfield, bullpen, rotation, catcher, and maybe another infielder. I dunno. I feel better about Fletcher, Rengifo, Urshela, Soto, and Velazquez than most here, at least versus Andrus and others as options.

I’ll go on record in saying that if they don’t add at least one more vet SP to the mix, it’ll come back to bite them. Doesn’t have to be something flashy, but counting on the young guns to stay healthy and productive and the depth to cover #6 is skating on thin ice. Good teams have good depth. 

Based on the rumors, it seems like we are indeed pursuing a 6th SP.  I'd even say that trading Junk (and losing valuable SP depth) probably somewhat telegraphs that move too.  I like Silseth, but I'd rather him start the year as SP7 on the depth hierarchy and serve as the next man up, rather than counting on him to be part of the rotation day 1.  CRod does not sound like an option and I haven't heard much about Canning, so if we don't add another starter, SP7 becomes ... Davis?  Not sure we really want to be in that position.

I'm probably in the same bucket as you in terms of optimistic regarding SS.  I would like to add one, but I feel like Soto might be better than all the projections indicate.  Plate discipline + good SS defense would be enough, IMO, to at least make him a decent option.  Clearly the FO thought enough of him to promote him directly from AA for the last few weeks of the year.

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

Based on the rumors, it seems like we are indeed pursuing a 6th SP.  I'd even say that trading Junk (and losing valuable SP depth) probably somewhat telegraphs that move too.  I like Silseth, but I'd rather him start the year as SP7 on the depth hierarchy and serve as the next man up, rather than counting on him to be part of the rotation day 1.  CRod does not sound like an option and I haven't heard much about Canning, so if we don't add another starter, SP7 becomes ... Davis?  Not sure we really want to be in that position.

I'm probably in the same bucket as you in terms of optimistic regarding SS.  I would like to add one, but I feel like Soto might be better than all the projections indicate.  Plate discipline + good SS defense would be enough, IMO, to at least make him a decent option.  Clearly the FO thought enough of him to promote him directly from AA for the last few weeks of the year.

My hope is Rengifo keeps improving, Fletcher regains some semblance of his prior self - he showed signs of that after returning from surgery, and that Soto and Velazquez continue to provide excellent defense. Whatever they provide offensively is bonus. Soto isn’t as good as he was last year, and I don’t think Velazquez is that bad. He showed some signs of life near the end and has a decent track record in the minors. It was his first year with true regular playing time in the bigs. I don’t expect him to even be a league average, but if he can sniff a .600+ OPS in a utility role with his glove, provided the rest of the lineup is healthy, he’d be an asset IMO.

All of that said, I’d welcome an addition simply for the sake of depth.

We can’t ignore rotation depth. It will always bite you. 

[totdprods]

On 12/19/2022 at 11:54 AM, Angel Oracle said:

He’s fallen off drastically after 2020, low .600s OPS.    Can get someone better for 4th OF.

The change in shift rules might help him though.

I imagine he lands a full-time role with the Tigers, Athletics, Royals, Pirates sort though.