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[Athletic] Joe Maddon Sounds off on Analytics

Angelsjunky

By Angelsjunky
in LA Angels | MLB Daily

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Inside Pitch
Inside Pitch

Dude talks out both sides of his mouth.  The short version is..  I like stats, but on my terms.   Openly admitting he was at odds/argued with Friedman, Theo and now Misanian -- but yeah.  Everyone els

Stradling
Stradling

Maddon being upset that Montgomery was in the dugout is the funniest thing I have read.  Fuck off Joe!  I am glad you are bitter.   I need to apologize again, because I used to say that Maddon wa

Stradling
Stradling

You’ve never been at odds with someone that you liked or cared about?  It literally happens all the time in leadership. 

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Reveille1984 Utility Player

Reveille1984

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2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

You can disagree and still like someone/be sad to see them go.  He could have been sad he wasn't able to make it work.   But if you're trying to build something and you have someone running interference the entire time -- I imagine that would get old no matter how much you like a guy.

A lot of this analytics stuff is about trusting the process.  Maddon says he believes in the stuff, but he has his own view of how the process goes.  I just doesn't seem like it was ever going to work between them.   I genuinely wonder if he didn't throw Eppler under the bus.

A manager shouldn't be trying to determine when/if to use analytics; by nature they're designed to work more often than not based on probability.  He should instead be the liaison between the nerds and the players, presenting the data to the team in an approachable way that makes sense.  That on top of managing personalities, keeping guys motivated and engaged, etc.  Those skills are still valuable for a manager. 

It just sounds like he's salty that some of the info provided didn't coincide with his preconceived notions about the game. "… every day we’d get ready for the game and (Angels GM) Perry (Minasian) and (assistant GM) Alex (Tamin) would come in and they would start talking about how I should use the bullpen that night. Like I haven’t done that for the last 40 years". I'm betting that Maddon wasn't always utilizing the information that the front office was giving him, so they started pushing back and putting on more pressure to make specific changes that got his undies into a twist.  This and his multiple "back in the day" and "ops guys don't understand the heart of baseball" and "I like data, but..." quotes in the article kind of just hint that he isn't happy about both the direction of baseball and not having full and complete authority of the clubhouse.

This isn't really new, front offices are always looking for an edge.  Launch angles, spin rates and higher velocity, defensive shifts, the end of "free outs" via bunting and sacrifices, TTO baseball, more guys than ever hovering around the Mendoza line, and etc. are all rampant now.  Some of these things (IMO) have made the game more robotic and dull, but it's the job of the league to make the proper modifications to offset some of this where they can.  First and foremost would be banning/modifying the shift, which I think most people would be in agreement with and would do a lot to increase offense and get more guys willing to just put the ball in play.  The other stuff, who knows.  I'm sure someone smarter than me can come up with some clever solutions.

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ukyah Franchise Icon

ukyah

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5 hours ago, Trendon said:

The transcription on The Athletic got messed up during parts of the interview.

If you listen to the interview, he was upset that Perry and Alex Tamin were in the clubhouse, and mentioned them both by name. He didn’t mention Montgomery by name.

i don't believe either one of those were dressing as coaches, like montgomery. it seems pretty clear that montgomery was not welcome as a member of the coaching staff, and that's weak as fuck by maddon.

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BTH Hall of Fame

BTH

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I wonder what the Angels coaches’ thoughts are on this matter.

Are a bunch of them against the way the Angels front office is presenting analytics as well?

I’d imagine Montgomery isn’t since he was moved from the front office to the dugout, but a lot of the coaches have been with Maddon in ‘20 and ‘21 (Reed, Mallee, Sorrento, Wise, Gallego)

Maybe the guys Perry brought in (Mashore, Gil, Hasselman, and Montgomery) are on his side?

It’s also worth noting that the Angels stripped Gallego of defensive positioning duties and gave those duties to Gil after Maddon was fired.

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eligrba Hall of Fame

eligrba

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4 minutes ago, Trendon said:

It’s also worth noting that the Angels stripped Gallego of defensive positioning duties and gave those duties to Gil after Maddon was fired

Just on casual observations during games, it appeared that when Gallego was in charge of defensive positioning, he sucked.  Actually, he sucked hard.

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full circle Everyday Player

full circle

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I don’t think anyone really likes being micro managed, and that sounds like some of what was happening here.  For a veteran who’s been around as long as Maddon, I’m sure it was insulting.  The bottom line is results, and if your results suck, everyone should be willing to look at ways to improve.  Sounds like a very similar situation as when Dipoto left, only that time Scioscia had the upper hand in the power dynamic to force Jerry out.  

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Docwaukee Hall of Fame

Docwaukee

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The whole point of using analytics is that in general it's not really optional.   Could there be a situational component here and there?  Sure.  But you better be able to justify it in my opinion.   

Divergent or conflicting views on their use and or the method of implementation is a recipe for disaster and why they needed to choose one voice.  I'm glad they didn't choose Maddon.

Hopefully this was indicative of a move toward a more cohesive leadership hierarchy on a go forward.   

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BTH Hall of Fame

BTH

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23 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

Divergent or conflicting views on their use and or the method of implementation is a recipe for disaster and why they needed to choose one voice.  I'm glad they didn't choose Maddon.

Hopefully this was indicative of a move toward a more cohesive leadership hierarchy on a go forward.   

This is a good point.

It’s honestly a little surprising Arte did side with Minasian over Maddon, considering that Arte liked Maddon so much that he fired Ausmus to hire him and chose him over Eppler’s recommendation of Showalter.

Maybe he did that knowing Maddon was in the last year of his contract while he had just hired Minasian before the start of the previous season.

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