The Official 2022 Los Angeles Angels Minor League Stats, Reports & Scouting Thread

[Chuck]

26 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Pretty solid takes. There's more power and more arm than they give O'Hoppe credit for, but they're the first publication that I recall being realistic about his bat. I think they're being generous giving him a 50. 

They're higher on Quero than I am. I think we all agree, the bat is legit, but defensively, he's your typical A Ball catcher. There are some deficiencies that will take time to shore up, which is why catchers take quite a bit more time to develop. It's going to be interesting to see if the Angels are patient and stick with him at catcher, or get him up to the major leagues sooner as a 1B or LF.

Neto, they're spot on, though I think on their ETA, they leave out the real possibility that he's just that good, in which case the 2024 is far too slow. If Rengifo or Fletcher aren't cutting it at shortstop and he's killing it in AA, he could be up by the all-star break. 

They couldn't be more wrong about his 30 grade for run and for this take:

WEAKNESSES  Not a great athlete, but he doesn’t need to be behind the plate. His lack of footspeed does mean he doesn’t take the extra-base and is more station-to-station, but that is admittedly nitpicking.

He's an absolute great athlete. I saw him play and practice in person and met him up close. Dude is ripped and has the physic and skills that you want in an athlete. 

[Second Base]

41 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

They couldn't be more wrong about his 30 grade for run and for this take:

WEAKNESSES  Not a great athlete, but he doesn’t need to be behind the plate. His lack of footspeed does mean he doesn’t take the extra-base and is more station-to-station, but that is admittedly nitpicking.

He's an absolute great athlete. I saw him play and practice in person and met him up close. Dude is ripped and has the physic and skills that you want in an athlete. 

Yeah I saw that too and kind of smirked. O'Hoppe is absolutely an athlete. He's not Brandon Marsh, but for a catcher, he's pretty solid and explosive. This isn't Bengie Molina back there. 

[Vlad27Trout27]

I for one am really excited for minor league season next year! We've had a solid amount of breakout players in the minor this past year; Bush, quero, Silseth..etc. I'm also looking forward to seeing if Bachman bounces back, Paris and jackson make adjustments. Looking forward to seeing Maddon and Dana pitch next season and lastly to see if anyone else takes that next big step! 

[Angel Oracle]

32 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

I for one am really excited for minor league season next year! We've had a solid amount of breakout players in the minor this past year; Bush, quero, Silseth..etc. I'm also looking forward to seeing if Bachman bounces back, Paris and jackson make adjustments. Looking forward to seeing Maddon and Dana pitch next season and lastly to see if anyone else takes that next big step! 

This

Also if Adell can take a full 2023 AAA season, and finally look like a #10 overall pick after it

[Second Base]

Adell at this point, regardless of the outcome is the cautionary tale that many of us already knew, but needed reminding of. 

Extremely athletic, baseball specific prep players mostly share a similar career arc. They breeze through the low minors and find themselves in AA/AAA by the time they're 20 or 21. Then they stall out. Their supreme athletic talent has led to them never needing to make any serious adjustments, and they are accustomed to winning and success. Then they reach higher levels, and they can't get by on talent alone, and they can't cope with failure.

Are there exceptions? Yes, obviously. And the exceptions are either elite All-stars, or they're Chevy Clarkes that never do anything. 

The ability to adjust is what makes a professional ball player successful or not, and it's also unfortunately, nearly impossible to scout. Jo Adell has a good head on his shoulders, so it stands to reason he'd likely be fine. But clearly, he isn't, he adjusts very slowly if at all. And he gets distracted by off the field stuff. Should they have known that before drafting him? No, it's impossible. Meanwhile, Trout has responded perfectly, and quickly. Could they known? No, it was pure luck on the Angels part. 

So when I see guys like Blake Rutherford, or for a more recent example, Pete Crow Armstrong, I'm immediately skeptical. They'll be fine until AA. Then they're like anyone else. Adapt or die, so to speak. 

 

[Warfarin]

8 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

This

Also if Adell can take a full 2023 AAA season, and finally look like a #10 overall pick after it

Adell's plate discipline is so awful, and his pitch recognition is likely rather poor too.  I don't know, I don't really have much hope for him, although I hope he can somehow figure things otu.  Those are rather fatal flaws for a player.

Sometimes, things just don't pan out.  I feel a lot more optimistic about some of our recent draftees / acquisitions, though.

[Second Base]

26 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Adell's plate discipline is so awful, and his pitch recognition is likely rather poor too.  I don't know, I don't really have much hope for him, although I hope he can somehow figure things otu.  Those are rather fatal flaws for a player.

Sometimes, things just don't pan out.  I feel a lot more optimistic about some of our recent draftees / acquisitions, though.

Ultra athletic outfielder with a piss poor K/BB ratio is so common. And that's what Adell is, until he can adjust. 

Normally, I'd have written him off already, but Byron Buxton showed that guys with Adell's profile can still be successful without quick adjustments. 

For Byron it came down to having a set of skills that will carry him as a big leaguer until other areas can be shored up. His defense, his power and his speed. They made him an imperfect yet valuable enough player to keep around and be patient with. 

And that's what I'm hoping to see with Adell. Obviously none of his skills are on par with Buxton, but if he can be the Kirkland Signature Buxton, I think the Angels would take that, until Jo learns to finer subtleties of the game. 

[Warfarin]

4 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Ultra athletic outfielder with a piss poor K/BB ratio is so common. And that's what Adell is, until he can adjust. 

Normally, I'd have written him off already, but Byron Buxton showed that guys with Adell's profile can still be successful without quick adjustments. 

For Byron it came down to having a set of skills that will carry him as a big leaguer until other areas can be shored up. His defense, his power and his speed. They made him an imperfect yet valuable enough player to keep around and be patient with. 

And that's what I'm hoping to see with Adell. Obviously none of his skills are on par with Buxton, but if he can be the Kirkland Signature Buxton, I think the Angels would take that, until Jo learns to finer subtleties of the game. 

I hear what you're saying, but I think what made Buxton playable during the initial years, as he struggled offensively, was his fairly elite CF defense.  So even though his offense was wildly inconsistent, he played great defense at one of the premium defensive spots.  Adell, OTOH, not only can't play that spot, but he offers very poor defense at one of the least valuable defensive spots.  It's hard to envision much of an MLB future for Adell currently, without some monumental growth in his contact skills and pitch recognition.  He is young enough that it can happen, but I think those things are probably some of the hardest things to improve.

[Second Base]

13 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I hear what you're saying, but I think what made Buxton playable during the initial years, as he struggled offensively, was his fairly elite CF defense.  So even though his offense was wildly inconsistent, he played great defense at one of the premium defensive spots.  Adell, OTOH, not only can't play that spot, but he offers very poor defense at one of the least valuable defensive spots.  It's hard to envision much of an MLB future for Adell currently, without some monumental growth in his contact skills and pitch recognition.  He is young enough that it can happen, but I think those things are probably some of the hardest things to improve.

That's exactly what I just said in regards to Buxton. Adell has all the prerequisite ability to be an elite defender in LF. So the hope is that if he can figure that out, he'd be playable until her improves. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

Jo Adell has a good head on his shoulders, so it stands to reason he'd likely be fine. But clearly, he isn't, he adjusts very slowly if at all.

you can't adjust when you haven't obtained the skill needed to make the adjustment.  

There is such a difference between having a certain type of tool (stop it) and then honing that into baseball skill.  

There is something about the type of eye hand coordination used in baseball that's different.  Being fast and strong and smart won't get you by past a certain point.  

There are lots of guys out there who can win a fight.  They're big and strong and fast and tough.  But most don't have technique or skill.  You put a 250lb untrained athlete in the ring with a 170lb elite boxer and that big guy is going to get absolutely destroyed 99 out of 100 times.  Adell's only chance right now is to land that knockout punch.   There isn't innate baseball talent there.  It's kinda like Rendon + Adell = Trout.  

[Second Base]

19 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

you can't adjust when you haven't obtained the skill needed to make the adjustment.  

There is such a difference between having a certain type of tool (stop it) and then honing that into baseball skill.  

There is something about the type of eye hand coordination used in baseball that's different.  Being fast and strong and smart won't get you by past a certain point.  

There are lots of guys out there who can win a fight.  They're big and strong and fast and tough.  But most don't have technique or skill.  You put a 250lb untrained athlete in the ring with a 170lb elite boxer and that big guy is going to get absolutely destroyed 99 out of 100 times.  Adell's only chance right now is to land that knockout punch.   There isn't innate baseball talent there.  It's kinda like Rendon + Adell = Trout.  

See now I disagree. I think there is innate refined talent. He's played baseball his whole life. He wasn't like Trout who played every sport, Adell is an athlete that focused on baseball. 

That natural ability and that lifelong background in the game (along with having advanced competition from an early amateur age) allowed him to make it to the high minors without trouble. 

It's the response to stimuli if you will. Without failure, there's no stimuli, and therefore, no response. No growth on his part, because growth wasn't needed. 

But I think characterizing Jo Adell as someone without innate baseball talent is completely false. 

[Docwaukee]

12 minutes ago, Second Base said:

See now I disagree. I think there is innate refined talent. He's played baseball his whole life. He wasn't like Trout who played every sport, Adell is an athlete that focused on baseball. 

That natural ability and that lifelong background in the game (along with having advanced competition from an early amateur age) allowed him to make it to the high minors without trouble. 

It's the response to stimuli if you will. Without failure, there's no stimuli, and therefore, no response. No growth on his part, because growth wasn't needed. 

But I think characterizing Jo Adell as someone without innate baseball talent is completely false. 

If he had innate baseball talent, he'd already be really good.  Him playing the game his whole life makes it even worse.  I watch him field OF grounders and catch fly balls and run routes and try to hit fastballs down the middle of the plate and I just don't see a baseball player.  

The ability to adjust can only be coached up so much.  

[Warfarin]

8 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

If he had innate baseball talent, he'd already be really good.  Him playing the game his whole life makes it even worse.  I watch him field OF grounders and catch fly balls and run routes and try to hit fastballs down the middle of the plate and I just don't see a baseball player.  

The ability to adjust can only be coached up so much.  

At this time, this is what I see too.  I think they are trying hard to help him, and I see some very modest improvements, at least defensively, but there is still a really long road ahead for him to even be playable.

I'd like to think one more year of AAA will help a lot, but just based on how far away he appears to be, I'm not so sure.  But all we can do is hope there is a leap of some kind.

 

[Angel Oracle]

59 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

At this time, this is what I see too.  I think they are trying hard to help him, and I see some very modest improvements, at least defensively, but there is still a really long road ahead for him to even be playable.

I'd like to think one more year of AAA will help a lot, but just based on how far away he appears to be, I'm not so sure.  But all we can do is hope there is a leap of some kind.

 

I’d settle for at least Adell becoming a decent enough 4th OF.

[Make Angels Great Again]

Remember when some were disappointed that some others were saying that Adell could end up being a Torii Hunter type.

Yeah...I think we'd take that now.

[Angel Oracle]

Draft lottery countdown:

Only 5 days

Knock on wood and 🫰for a good Halos draft position.

[ten ocho recon scout]

10 hours ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Remember when some were disappointed that some others were saying that Adell could end up being a Torii Hunter type.

Yeah...I think we'd take that now.

Not to keep shitting in Adell. But maybe 2 or 3 years ago, I asked on here would we be better off trading Adell for a lesser prospect, at a spot we needed more, like C. And got pretty resoundingly destroyed. 

Not only would we all probably be for that now, but funny enough, Adell for Ohoppe (instead of Marsh) would have probably been a lot better for us.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Hopefully the Fletcher article about changing the player development side means someone can "fix" him. 

[Lou]

29 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Hopefully the Fletcher article about changing the player development side means someone can "fix" him. 

What are the chances that Fletch has $3B stashed away somewhere?

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Not to keep shitting in Adell. But maybe 2 or 3 years ago, I asked on here would we be better off trading Adell for a lesser prospect, at a spot we needed more, like C. And got pretty resoundingly destroyed. 

Not only would we all probably be for that now, but funny enough, Adell for Ohoppe (instead of Marsh) would have probably been a lot better for us.

Given our recent developmental history, if we traded Adell away he'd immediately become a stud all-star. 

Trying to be funny, but there is a small degree of truth to it. Marsh didn't look nearly as lost with the Phillies. They tweaked his swing and he immediately became productive. I doubt it's sustainable because of the K/BB ratio, but it appears he's going to be a valuable player nonetheless. 

[Warfarin]

38 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Given our recent developmental history, if we traded Adell away he'd immediately become a stud all-star. 

Trying to be funny, but there is a small degree of truth to it. Marsh didn't look nearly as lost with the Phillies. They tweaked his swing and he immediately became productive. I doubt it's sustainable because of the K/BB ratio, but it appears he's going to be a valuable player nonetheless. 

Yeah - I think this might be one of those trades, though, that both teams "win," so to speak.  O'Hoppe has a lot of promise and looked very good, and we most definitely needed a solid catching prospect who was close to being ready.  Marsh should be a pretty decent CF, and that is what the Phillies needed.  

I don't think Minasian makes this trade if we needed a CF, but we obviously don't, and Marsh's value wasn't being optimized as a LFer.  

[Second Base]

41 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Yeah - I think this might be one of those trades, though, that both teams "win," so to speak.  O'Hoppe has a lot of promise and looked very good, and we most definitely needed a solid catching prospect who was close to being ready.  Marsh should be a pretty decent CF, and that is what the Phillies needed.  

I don't think Minasian makes this trade if we needed a CF, but we obviously don't, and Marsh's value wasn't being optimized as a LFer.  

I agree completely. I think we've covered this trade ad nauseam, but my views haven't changed. Marsh is going to be pretty good. Probably one level under all-star. And O'Hoppe, I don't think he'll hit consistently enough to be a star but I think he's going to be a solid regular catcher in the major leagues for a solid decade. 

[Chuck]

 

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

 

This is a cool read, but I think what this also shows is this organization needs a talent infusion in the OF as it prepares for future years.  

[Chuck]

32 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

This is a cool read, but I think what this also shows is this organization needs a talent infusion in the OF as it prepares for future years.  

I agree. I hope they start drafting some college OF's with good defense and a good bat. 

The Angels could move a few guys off their middle infield positions to get them some time in the outfield. Guys like Paris, Blakely and Palencia, to go along with Jeremiah Jackson, Jordyn Adams and Nelson Rada. 

Right now Rada is our AngelsWin.com consensus top OF prospect.