Can the Angels afford two high-spotlight pitchers?

[Torridd]

Specifically, I was going to ask if he can acquire Matz and Stroman, but now Matz is gone, do you think we can get Rodon and Stroman? Would that be too expensive?

[Warfarin]

9 minutes ago, Torridd said:

Specifically, I was going to ask if he can acquire Matz and Stroman, but now Matz is gone, do you think we can get Rodon and Stroman? Would that be too expensive?

Yes, it would.  We likely have somewhere in the vicinity of 25-30mil of payroll left to spend (most likely).  We need another SP, another reliever or two, a backup C, and another SS option.  We also don't have a lot of prospect capital to utilize to help fill those holes.

[tdawg87]

They can, but they won't. 

I think we add 1 more starter though.

[DCAngelsFan]

Given our other needs, seems too expensive for both (or even one.)

My druthers right now are Iglesias and Stroman - but I can't tell which in which order if I can only have "one."  

With Rodon, shoulder issues always scare me in a pitcher - after signing Thor, I'd prefer someone more reliable like Stroman, even if they lack the stuff of Rodon.

Iglesias might be too expensive, but then, I don't want to give up real prospects for relievers who can have such a short shelf-life.  Don't think Jansen will be any cheaper.  So, need a way to find a high-leverage reliever - maybe we resign Cobb (as was proposed elsewhere) to free up enough cash to sign Iglesias.

After that, Story would be a nice add, but not gonna happen.  

Probably pick up a reliever prospect or three off the junk pile, and maybe hope for a catcher to become available.

 

 

 

[Angels 1961]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

They can, but they won't. 

I think we add 1 more starter though.

Stroman or Gausman and Cobb, plus bullpen 2 or 3 adds. I feel the way the market is going Moreno will go over lux tax whatever that ends up being. With all this talent Trout, Ohtani, Rendon, Walsh and young players in Adell and Marsh. After 6 losing seasons halos need to be BIG players this off season.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Matt Thaiss backup catcher. Re-sign Iglesias. In house or a defense first cheap SS. Sign another SP, bring back Cobb and call it an offseason.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Ace-Of-Diamonds

[angelsnationtalk]

“We have an ownership group that wants to compete and wants to win, so I would not rule anything out."

Calling the bluff now. Our ownership has said that for years. If they really wanna compete then bring back Iglesias and get Scherzer and prove it. 

[wopphil]

I have no interest in Rodon, but I am coming around to the idea of Gausman (even though he will cost big money). But I think they really have to snag another arm too, even if it isn’t one of the mid-tier arms. Maybe someone like a Danny Duffy. I think we’d be in good shape if the depth chart went Syndergaard, Ohtani, Gausman, Sandoval, Suarez, Duffy, Canning, Detmers. 

[Warfarin]

10 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

“We have an ownership group that wants to compete and wants to win, so I would not rule anything out."

Calling the bluff now. Our ownership has said that for years. If they really wanna compete then bring back Iglesias and get Scherzer and prove it. 

The team has been one of the highest spending organizations for years.  It's not like we are operating with a middle or low end budget.  It's just that the "big swings" for players (Pujols, Hamilton, Upton, maybe Rendon now) have all turned out terribly.  Probably a lesson to be learned in there in terms of long-term deals, etc..

Everyone always wants to sign the "big name" and most expensive free agents, but that is what has largely gotten us (and other teams) in trouble.  What if we had signed Bauer last offseason?  Then we'd literally have no money to sign anyone and would have a huge sunk cost.

Look at the Giants last year.  They led baseball in wins and they did it with a guy on a one year QO (Gausman) and several cast-offs (Wood, DeScalfani).  A resourceful FO can find good bargains who perform well without having to pay astronomical prices.

[totdprods]

45 minutes ago, Torridd said:

Specifically, I was going to ask if he can acquire Matz and Stroman, but now Matz is gone, do you think we can get Rodon and Stroman? Would that be too expensive?

I don't think either have the 'star power' that would entice Arte into paying up. 

Sticking to my guns that there's two roads for Minasian - a $25-$30m+ arm like Scherzer, Ray, Gausman, Kershaw? that has name power or a legit CY-level season and Iglesias, with the rest filled out cheaply, and that's the scenario where he spends big. 

Or he keeps Minasian close to the $180m payroll mark and expects him to address a 2nd SP, a CL not named Iglesias, RP, and back-up C with the ~$25m left.

[Jason]

2 hours ago, Torridd said:

Specifically, I was going to ask if he can acquire Matz and Stroman, but now Matz is gone, do you think we can get Rodon and Stroman? Would that be too expensive?

Someone needs to give Arte a call so we can get the real answer 

[floplag]

Of course we can, there is zero evidence to suggest otherwise considering the organizations other recent purchases of the land around the stadium and such, were clearly not hurting.
The question isnt can we, but will ownership allow it.

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Matt Thaiss backup catcher. Re-sign Iglesias. In house or a defense first cheap SS. Sign another SP, bring back Cobb and call it an offseason.

I am very comfortable predicting that Thaiss is not going to be the second catcher for the Angels next year.  I think he could be a guy on a roster who does other things and is additionally basically the emergency catcher.

I expect them to get another catcher.

[Mark68]

They can. But is there the will to do so?

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

I am very comfortable predicting that Thaiss is not going to be the second catcher for the Angels next year.  I think he could be a guy on a roster who does other things and is additionally basically the emergency catcher.

I expect them to get another catcher.

Yeah, if Stassi gets hurt, which happens more often than not, they’re not handing they keys over to a guy who hasn’t caught more than 500 IP in pro ball.

At least one if not two catchers (one for AAA) are needed. 

[Hubs]

46 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I am very comfortable predicting that Thaiss is not going to be the second catcher for the Angels next year.  I think he could be a guy on a roster who does other things and is additionally basically the emergency catcher.

I expect them to get another catcher.

I think they will add a journeyman catcher and at least one catcher for AAA like Briceño or Bemboom or Butera. But they'll let Thaiss try to win the backup job in ST. Ward is the emergency catcher, and backup INF/OF. They are going versatile players.

They're not spending money at the position, just like they apparently aren't spending money on the Middle Infield.

And for those who think they need more experience, how many games do you think 31 year old Bemboom has caught in the majors? He's started 40 in parts of 4 seasons. Briceno has started 36. Wallach 58.

These guys have started more in the minors, but Thaiss was the Angels 2016 draft pick, and yes they moved him off the plate, and put him at 1st. He was a catcher his whole life until 2016. He started 54 games for the Bees at Catcher last year, essentially in a three-way platoon with Butera and Bemboom. He caught more than they did.

Suzuki was a luxury and he hit terribly. Thaiss managed a .879 OPS in AAA. He's not hit in his limited action in the minors, but his versatility is key. And he's left handed. The Angels have a very nice bench with Thaiss and Ward and Wade, if Davis is the starter at SS. Upton I think is technically the starter or in a three-way platoon with Adell and Marsh.

 

 

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, Hubs said:

I think they will add a journeyman catcher and at least one catcher for AAA like Briceño or Bemboom or Butera. 

 

 

 

The rally killer Bs

[totdprods]

If the Angels wanted to afford two high spotlight pitchers, they'd sign one of Scherzer, Ray, Gausman (I guess Stroman or Kershaw fit too) and trade Adell, Canning/Suarez, a SS prospect, and probably one of the better SP prospects for Luis Castillo. 

That's around $35m added, give or take a few million. 

FA #1, Syndergaard, Ohtani, Castillo....that's a hell of a quartet.

[Taylor]

Two other than Syndegaard?

[eligrba4ever]

Every MLB team can afford multiple front-line pitchers. It's the decision of each team. The Angels' budget is up to the ownership partners. If they wish to spend what is asked, they can handle it. They could go for several recently successful stars. It's a roll of the dice whether it's one year for Syndegaard or 3-or-more for one of the aging Cys on the top shelf.

[Torridd]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

If the Angels wanted to afford two high spotlight pitchers, they'd sign one of Scherzer, Ray, Gausman (I guess Stroman or Kershaw fit too) and trade Adell, Canning/Suarez, a SS prospect, and probably one of the better SP prospects for Luis Castillo. 

That's around $35m added, give or take a few million. 

FA #1, Syndergaard, Ohtani, Castillo....that's a hell of a quartet.

I read that supposedly the Reds have taken Castillo off the market but Gray is available.

[Docwaukee]

8 hours ago, Hubs said:

I think they will add a journeyman catcher and at least one catcher for AAA like Briceño or Bemboom or Butera. But they'll let Thaiss try to win the backup job in ST. Ward is the emergency catcher, and backup INF/OF. They are going versatile players.

They're not spending money at the position, just like they apparently aren't spending money on the Middle Infield.

And for those who think they need more experience, how many games do you think 31 year old Bemboom has caught in the majors? He's started 40 in parts of 4 seasons. Briceno has started 36. Wallach 58.

These guys have started more in the minors, but Thaiss was the Angels 2016 draft pick, and yes they moved him off the plate, and put him at 1st. He was a catcher his whole life until 2016. He started 54 games for the Bees at Catcher last year, essentially in a three-way platoon with Butera and Bemboom. He caught more than they did.

Suzuki was a luxury and he hit terribly. Thaiss managed a .879 OPS in AAA. He's not hit in his limited action in the minors, but his versatility is key. And he's left handed. The Angels have a very nice bench with Thaiss and Ward and Wade, if Davis is the starter at SS. Upton I think is technically the starter or in a three-way platoon with Adell and Marsh.

 

 

 

I disagree that the Angels have a nice bench.  It's loaded with AAA fodder and what caused them to have the worst offense in baseball the second half of 2021.  

[Hubs]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

I disagree that the Angels have a nice bench.  It's loaded with AAA fodder and what caused them to have the worst offense in baseball the second half of 2021.  

Their initial bench last year was moved into the starting lineup in the second half and even then almost none of the guys they were playing would be on my projected bench for 22. 
 

I think they need to add in the middle infield unless they are gonna give the job to Davis and he hits. Rengifo struggled with the bat. But he, Mayfield and Wade are good infielder bench I guess and Thaiss as backup C plus Ward and Upton is a good bench. If Rengifo is the starter and Wade the backup, uh oh but I like Wade, Thaiss and Ward as the primary bench pieces. Especially if Davis wins the SS job and hits. 

 

[Angels 1961]

51 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Their initial bench last year was moved into the starting lineup in the second half and even then almost none of the guys they were playing would be on my projected bench for 22. 
 

I think they need to add in the middle infield unless they are gonna give the job to Davis and he hits. Rengifo struggled with the bat. But he, Mayfield and Wade are good infielder bench I guess and Thaiss as backup C plus Ward and Upton is a good bench. If Rengifo is the starter and Wade the backup, uh oh but I like Wade, Thaiss and Ward as the primary bench pieces. Especially if Davis wins the SS job and hits. 

 

How much do you pay Stroman 5 years maybe 6 to get him?

[Docwaukee]

If I'm the Angels I just can't hand the SS job to Rengifo or a Rookie who jumped three levels last year after spending 50-60 mil on pitching.  That just seems absurd to me.  The bench is a collection of waiver pickups and replacement level minor leaguers.   Most teams deal with injury in various ways over the course of a season.  Even outside of the injuries to Trout and Rendon, the halos had a collective WAR of 1.4 from their MIF last year and they're arguably worse right now than they were.  

It just seems so stupid to me that they'd go out and improve a pitching staff that actually wasn't that bad yet leave such a chance for disaster in other areas.  Why would you spend 20+m on a guy that gives you 3-4 wins and not spend 7-8 mil on a guy that gives you 2 wins?