Can the Angels afford two high-spotlight pitchers?

[Hubs]

51 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

How much do you pay Stroman 5 years maybe 6 to get him?

5/110 to 6/156 is my comfort range.

[Hubs]

14 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

If I'm the Angels I just can't hand the SS job to Rengifo or a Rookie who jumped three levels last year after spending 50-60 mil on pitching.  That just seems absurd to me.  The bench is a collection of waiver pickups and replacement level minor leaguers.   Most teams deal with injury in various ways over the course of a season.  Even outside of the injuries to Trout and Rendon, the halos had a collective WAR of 1.4 from their MIF last year and they're arguably worse right now than they were.  

It just seems so stupid to me that they'd go out and improve a pitching staff that actually wasn't that bad yet leave such a chance for disaster in other areas.  Why would you spend 20+m on a guy that gives you 3-4 wins and not spend 7-8 mil on a guy that gives you 2 wins?  

Agreed dude. I don’t really understand leaving SS to Mayfield/Rengifo/Wade/Davis. But after they threw all that money at Loup, and are still in on every starter apparently and I still want Iglesias back.
 

Unless they bust the budget, and I’d much rather have Iglesias and a SS than Iglesias, Stroman, and a starter like Gray or Cobb.

[ten ocho recon scout]

27 minutes ago, Hubs said:

5/110 to 6/156 is my comfort range.

Quite the leap there. That 6th year gets expensive

[Lou]

30 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Quite the leap there. That 6th year gets expensive

Not if the first year is $84M.

[Warfarin]

7 hours ago, Dochalo said:

If I'm the Angels I just can't hand the SS job to Rengifo or a Rookie who jumped three levels last year after spending 50-60 mil on pitching.  That just seems absurd to me.  The bench is a collection of waiver pickups and replacement level minor leaguers.   Most teams deal with injury in various ways over the course of a season.  Even outside of the injuries to Trout and Rendon, the halos had a collective WAR of 1.4 from their MIF last year and they're arguably worse right now than they were.  

It just seems so stupid to me that they'd go out and improve a pitching staff that actually wasn't that bad yet leave such a chance for disaster in other areas.  Why would you spend 20+m on a guy that gives you 3-4 wins and not spend 7-8 mil on a guy that gives you 2 wins?  

I'd be shocked if we enter the season with no further addition to the SS group that we have now.  Likely it won't be an upper tier option, but at least someone who can provide steady defense.

Ideally, Wade and Mayfield are both bench players, with Rengifo in AAA to continue to try to improve.  Davis will begin in AAA too.

[Warfarin]

8 hours ago, Hubs said:

Their initial bench last year was moved into the starting lineup in the second half and even then almost none of the guys they were playing would be on my projected bench for 22. 
 

I think they need to add in the middle infield unless they are gonna give the job to Davis and he hits. Rengifo struggled with the bat. But he, Mayfield and Wade are good infielder bench I guess and Thaiss as backup C plus Ward and Upton is a good bench. If Rengifo is the starter and Wade the backup, uh oh but I like Wade, Thaiss and Ward as the primary bench pieces. Especially if Davis wins the SS job and hits. 

 

I agree that I think our bench is/was actually good, BUT the problem is our depth wasn't good.  When injuries to our stars occurred and those bench players became regulars, and they were then replaced by inadequate depth, that's basically when everything started to fall apart.

Realistically though, anytime they lose both Trout and Rendon, they're going to suffer, no matter how good the bench and depth are.

Looking at bench options now, I think Wade is a solid bench player, as is Ward.  I like Upton as a 4th OF who starts mainly against LHP.  I still think Rengifo has a good amount of potential, and he's still pretty young (24).  

Mayfield is okay.  I'd rather him just be kept in AAA as depth and be someone who we don't see too much of.  Same thing with Gosselin too - he doesn't have options left, but I see him as someone who will be DFA'd after our next acquisition.

[Revad]

It would be nice to add a good SS to keep the bench players on the bench and the depth as depth.  Oh, and good health in general.

[Angels 1961]

8 hours ago, Hubs said:

5/110 to 6/156 is my comfort range.

Angels need at least 1 more starter. They will have to over pay for top starter. If they get Stroman or Gausman will be out of Mad Max running. Any other money must be put in bullpen. They have Loup 2 or 3 more needed. SS will come from within, they added 2 from Yankees plus what they already have. Maybe a trade for Kimbrel to be closer for 1 year. Maybe Rengifo and some prospect for Kimbrel. Mayers, Loup and Kimbrel back end of pen. Think Minasian gets starter before Dec 1 many signings before deadline by teams.

[Dtwncbad]

11 hours ago, Hubs said:

5/110 to 6/156 is my comfort range.

If you absolutely have to add the 7th year to get him, you probably just shrug and do it.

7/220.

[Stradling]

All owners can do this.  If Arte can do it being worth $3 billion imagine what the Dodgers can do with the Guggenheim Group being worth 100 times that.  

[Hubs]

4 hours ago, Warfarin said:

I agree that I think our bench is/was actually good, BUT the problem is our depth wasn't good.  When injuries to our stars occurred and those bench players became regulars, and they were then replaced by inadequate depth, that's basically when everything started to fall apart.

Realistically though, anytime they lose both Trout and Rendon, they're going to suffer, no matter how good the bench and depth are.

Looking at bench options now, I think Wade is a solid bench player, as is Ward.  I like Upton as a 4th OF who starts mainly against LHP.  I still think Rengifo has a good amount of potential, and he's still pretty young (24).  

Mayfield is okay.  I'd rather him just be kept in AAA as depth and be someone who we don't see too much of.  Same thing with Gosselin too - he doesn't have options left, but I see him as someone who will be DFA'd after our next acquisition.

Agreed and one thing that’s a lesson learned from last season is to have a more versatile bench. If you have to play infielders who’ve never played OF in the outfield then you don’t have appropriate depth.

Wade makes Gosselin expendable. Ward can play OF/1B and is the emergency C. Thaiss can play both corner infield and now is a Catcher. And I think will be the backup. He’d have been up in August playing for Rendon regularly at third if they weren’t committing to him becoming an option behind the plate. 

[Hubs]

3 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Angels need at least 1 more starter. They will have to over pay for top starter. If they get Stroman or Gausman will be out of Mad Max running. Any other money must be put in bullpen. They have Loup 2 or 3 more needed. SS will come from within, they added 2 from Yankees plus what they already have. Maybe a trade for Kimbrel to be closer for 1 year. Maybe Rengifo and some prospect for Kimbrel. Mayers, Loup and Kimbrel back end of pen. Think Minasian gets starter before Dec 1 many signings before deadline by teams.

They have Loup and Mayer’s and hopefully Iglesias back. That’s a good top end of the bullpen. Suarez might end up in the pen if two of Canning or Barria or Detmers end up being the bottom two. Syndergaard Stroman Ohtani and Sandoval bring 1-4.

Cishek was ok, Warren, Herget, Ortega, Junk, Reyes and They still have Pena right? 

[totdprods]

21 minutes ago, Hubs said:

They have Loup and Mayer’s and hopefully Iglesias back. That’s a good top end of the bullpen. Suarez might end up in the pen if two of Canning or Barria or Detmers end up being the bottom two. Syndergaard Stroman Ohtani and Sandoval bring 1-4.

Cishek was ok, Warren, Herget, Ortega, Junk, Reyes and They still have Pena right? 

Pena was released.

I see the pen like this:

• CL: To Be Acquired (Iglesias, Jansen, Hader, Melancon)
• Set-up 1: Loup
• Set-up 2: To be acquired, or Mayers
• MRP: Mayers/Warren 
• MRP: To be acquired, or Warren
• MRP: Rotating spot for Herget, Ortega, Wantz, other AAA RP with options
• Lefty: Quijada
• Long-relief: Barria

They need a closer, and then at least one more fairly reliable arm to bump Mayers and Warren down a peg, perhaps with room for one more Cishek/Watson million-dollar flier

[Hubs]

50 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Pena was released.

I see the pen like this:

• CL: To Be Acquired (Iglesias, Jansen, Hader, Melancon)
• Set-up 1: Loup
• Set-up 2: To be acquired, or Mayers
• MRP: Mayers/Warren 
• MRP: To be acquired, or Warren
• MRP: Rotating spot for Herget, Ortega, Wantz, other AAA RP with options
• Lefty: Quijada
• Long-relief: Barria

They need a closer, and then at least one more fairly reliable arm to bump Mayers and Warren down a peg, perhaps with room for one more Cishek/Watson million-dollar flier

Agreed except Mayers is pretty certainly the third guy. Warren likely next. And I think Suarez may end up in the pen if Barria takes the 6th spot and Canning or Detmers takes 5th. 

 

[totdprods]

46 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Agreed except Mayers is pretty certainly the third guy. Warren likely next. And I think Suarez may end up in the pen if Barria takes the 6th spot and Canning or Detmers takes 5th. 

If they do not land one of the pricey SPs, I could see them investing in another high-dollar reliever to pair up with Loup. There's flexibility in the plan.

Neris, Tepera, Melancon, Bradley, maybe McHugh, Garcia, Yates, Rosenthal. Guys I expect have a reasonable shot at costing more than $5m AAV.

There's a lot of options still.

Edited November 25, 2021 by totdprods

[DCAngelsFan]

Maybe not worth it's own thread

 

 

[AngelStew43]

Melancon led the league in saves, but I hope we don't sign him.  I am getting the vibe that he would not pitch nearly as well for us as he did last season.  

See Yan and Rodney as examples of this.