Jose Iglesias vs Simmons so far

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, beatlesrule said:

Oh man, I thought that backloaded contracts didn't matter when it came to the tax. My understanding was that it takes the annual value of the contract and that's what counts as a team payroll. Is that wrong? Arte could pay Correa or whatever SS 10-15 million in 2022 to help with the tax? I didn't think that was the case.

The luxury tax is calculated by AAV, but that hasn’t been the restrain on payroll in recent years, but rather their year to year payroll. So yes, he could pay Correa $15m in ‘22 and even if the luxury tax hit was $30m, it would be more doable for the Angels because it keeps their ‘22 payroll lower.

[totdprods]

14 minutes ago, failos said:

The Angels have too much competition with other teams for a star player to accept a backloaded contract.

I don’t think stars care if they are backloaded or not, they’re getting all of that money guaranteed regardless. Some are more open to it than others but it’s pretty standard.

There’s also more star SS landing in FA than their might be suitors for. Lots of good second tier guys like Semien too.

[failos]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

I don’t think stars care if they are backloaded or not, they’re getting all of that money guaranteed regardless. Some are more open to it than others but it’s pretty standard.

There’s also more star SS landing in FA than their might be suitors for. Lots of good second tier guys like Semien too.

I’d be happy if we signed a guy like Semien. I also suspect we’ll need a decent 3B because I don’t trust Redon to be healthy.

[totdprods]

3 hours ago, Hells Rainbow said:

They can’t sign a premiere SS and keep Ohtani

Sure they can.

Not a huge difference in Trout, Pujols, Upton, and Rendon from Trout, Rendon, Ohtani, star SS.

Is it smart? No, but Arte could pay it because we’ve had four big contracts before. 

[jsnpritchett]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Sure they can.

Not a huge difference in Trout, Pujols, Upton, and Rendon from Trout, Rendon, Ohtani, star SS.

Is it smart? No, but Arte could pay it because we’ve had four big contracts before. 

Upton's contract was back-loaded, as is Rendon's to some degree.  So "could" they do it?  Yeah, I guess so.  Should they do it?  Absolutely not, given the restrictions it will place on the rest of the roster.

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Upton's contract was back-loaded, as is Rendon's to some degree.  So "could" they do it?  Yeah, I guess so.  Should they do it?  Absolutely not, given the restrictions it will place on the rest of the roster.

Absolutely agree, just saying that it isn’t financially impossible. Especially if deadline murmurs about Perry discussing players with higher dollar contracts being in play. 

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

Absolutely agree, just saying that it isn’t financially impossible. Especially if deadline murmurs about Perry discussing players with higher dollar contracts being in play. 

If they do it, then it'll be another several years of bargain-hunting and dumpster-diving on any pitchers from outside the org. 

[beatlesrule]

6 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

If they do it, then it'll be another several years of bargain-hunting and dumpster-diving on any pitchers from outside the org. 

Strictly for next year, what pitchers could they realistically sign that would give a better War than say Correa's 4-7?

[failos]

What would Iglesias cost us if we were to re-sign him? He’s not the best, but his offense is decent, and his defense is slightly above average. I just don’t see us splurging on someone like Correa or Story.

[Revad]

5 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

Oh man, I thought that backloaded contracts didn't matter when it came to the tax. My understanding was that it takes the annual value of the contract and that's what counts as a team payroll. Is that wrong? Arte could pay Correa or whatever SS 10-15 million in 2022 to help with the tax? I didn't think that was the case.

Seems like Artie is more concerned about how much is spent dollars wise more than the cb tax.

[WicketMaiden]

2 hours ago, failos said:

What would Iglesias cost us if we were to re-sign him? He’s not the best, but his offense is decent, and his defense is slightly above average. I just don’t see us splurging on someone like Correa or Story.

He's earning $3m this year and that's about his average. 2/$6m would be realistic for both sides and bridge us nicely to the youngsters coming up.

We don't need another big bat, another extra run per game this year would have made little difference, an extra pair of good reliable arms coming out of the pen that can actually strand runners definitely would have. Spend on the pen!

[Stradling]

3 hours ago, totdprods said:

Sure they can.

Not a huge difference in Trout, Pujols, Upton, and Rendon from Trout, Rendon, Ohtani, star SS.

Is it smart? No, but Arte could pay it because we’ve had four big contracts before. 

It’s quite a bit more with the way they structured the deals.  Arte looks at year to year payroll. At some point it’ll be $130-140 million for those 4 players with an annual budget usually around $180 million.  So 21 other players will combine to make $50 million?  

[failos]

5 minutes ago, WicketMaiden said:

He's earning $3m this year and that's about his average. 2/$6m would be realistic for both sides and bridge us nicely to the youngsters coming up.

We don't need another big bat, another extra run per game this year would have made little difference, an extra pair of good reliable arms coming out of the pen that can actually strand runners definitely would have. Spend on the pen!

That would be a steal. Hopefully we re-sign him.

[ThisismineScios]

I think given how Iggy is a slightly above average SS right now that should improve his defense, he's going to get paid more than $3 million. I think he'd stay with the Angels for something like 2/$15-17 million. Which I think is a great idea. He's a perfect 9 hole hitter because, like Fletcher, he generally makes good contact and keeps innings alive. He doesn't walk but then again neither does Fletcher. Imagine going Fletcher-Ohtani-Trout-Rendon-Walsh-Stassi-Upton(Adell?)-Marsh-Iglesias next year. That is a top 3 AL lineup, minimum. None of those guys are bad hitters except for Upton. And I'd rather see Adell in that spot and batting 7th or 8th, pressure off. In fact, I'd put Stassi behind Adell just for a bit of protection and to give Adell a few more RBI opportunities. Sorry this is about Iggy I know. 

They absolutely should bring him back. He clearly loves it here and loves Ohtani. And he's a cheap, quality option that would allow them to pay Cobb, Raisel, and another starter or two while filling out the bullpen with some decent options. 

[WicketMaiden]

6 hours ago, ThisismineScios said:

I think given how Iggy is a slightly above average SS right now that should improve his defense, he's going to get paid more than $3 million. I think he'd stay with the Angels for something like 2/$15-17 million. Which I think is a great idea. He's a perfect 9 hole hitter because, like Fletcher, he generally makes good contact and keeps innings alive. He doesn't walk but then again neither does Fletcher. Imagine going Fletcher-Ohtani-Trout-Rendon-Walsh-Stassi-Upton(Adell?)-Marsh-Iglesias next year. That is a top 3 AL lineup, minimum. None of those guys are bad hitters except for Upton. And I'd rather see Adell in that spot and batting 7th or 8th, pressure off. In fact, I'd put Stassi behind Adell just for a bit of protection and to give Adell a few more RBI opportunities. Sorry this is about Iggy I know. 

They absolutely should bring him back. He clearly loves it here and loves Ohtani. And he's a cheap, quality option that would allow them to pay Cobb, Raisel, and another starter or two while filling out the bullpen with some decent options. 

What are you basing that on? Here are all Iglesias' contracts:

2016: 2.1m (final arbitration year)

2017: 4.1m (1 year deal)

2018: 6.275m (1 year deal)

2019: 2.5m (1 year deal)

2020: 2.5m (1 year deal with club option)

2021: 3.5m (club option picked up - 1 year deal)

And you think it is a great idea to pay him two years at 7.5m to 8.5m per year? Nonsense.

[GrittyVeterans]

Shame we don't have anyone in the high minors who can fill that spot. Need to spend every nickel we can on bullpen

[beatlesrule]

Well that went south quickly. Another swing and miss by Minasian.

 

[jsnpritchett]

The gap between Iglesias' bWAR and fWAR grew even more since this thread was started.  BBRef has him at -1.2 for the year, while he's at 0.6 on Fangraphs.  Has anyone seen a gap larger than that between the two sites for position player WAR?  (I say position player, because there are frequently huge differences among pitchers.)

[eligrba]

On 8/1/2021 at 7:23 AM, eligrba said:

I will be surprised if the Angels don't extend Jose Inglesias.  I am guessing they want Ohtani to feel as comfortable as possible.

[Lou]

Holy crap, Simmons has an OPS+ of 59.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

The gap between Iglesias' bWAR and fWAR grew even more since this thread was started.  BBRef has him at -1.2 for the year, while he's at 0.6 on Fangraphs.  Has anyone seen a gap larger than that between the two sites for position player WAR?  (I say position player, because there are frequently huge differences among pitchers.)

fangraphs uses UZR for their WAR calc.  BBref uses DRS.  It's actually the reason why we see something similar with pitchers.  

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

Holy crap, Simmons has an OPS+ of 59.

it's like golf.  the lower the better.  

[Lou]

21 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

it's like golf.  the lower the better.  

We should sign him.

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

The gap between Iglesias' bWAR and fWAR grew even more since this thread was started.  BBRef has him at -1.2 for the year, while he's at 0.6 on Fangraphs.  Has anyone seen a gap larger than that between the two sites for position player WAR?  (I say position player, because there are frequently huge differences among pitchers.)

Sounds like Minasian rates players based on bWar.

[TheLordofOuts]

Mayfield hits grand slams so therefore, he’s better than both of them.