Pre-Hot Stove Discussion; or, how do you spend $45 million this offseason?

[greginpsca]

On 8/5/2021 at 8:33 AM, Hells Rainbow said:

While I’d like to add a guy that slots in between Ohtani and Sandoval, I’d be fine with just upgrades in the pen.  I mean I could totally see Arte signing Seager to play SS. 

I hope they don't go after Seager. He has spent a lot of time on the IL. Makes me think once he gets paid, he will decline fairly quickly. Just look at his brother for a comparison.

[ten ocho recon scout]

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Gotcha, I thought maybe I had missed something.   Not gonna lie, I wouldnt be shocked if it's not just a phantom injury type situation where they want him to do a full reset.  I think his issues are between the ears more than anything else.   Too much tinkering.  Also, I think Marsh's plate discipline is hurting him.  He's seemingly too tentative of late.   I think he needs a couple days off to get nice and hitter happy.

How much do you think Marsh being linked to a trade messed w him? 

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

How much do you think Marsh being linked to a trade messed w him? 

He's been mentioned in trade talks almost his whole career at this point...hopefully he's learned to brush that off by now.

[eligrba4ever]

Yacht repairs???

[HanfordGuy]

On 7/31/2021 at 7:07 PM, tdawg87 said:

I played baseball once.

[34red4]

18 hours ago, mmc said:

Semien won't take that, this is his last and perfect opportunity to get a long term deal.

I couldn’t find any shortstops to compare him to. 3 largest contracts given to a shortstop over the age of 30:

Alex Rodriguez (32) - 10 years, $275 mil

Derek Jeter (36) - 3 years, $51 mil

JJ Hardy (32) - 3 years, $40 mil

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/contracts/sort-value/shortstop/all-time/limit-100/

It will be interesting to see what he signs for given his age (relative) and the number of star shortstops on the market.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

46 minutes ago, totdprods said:

He's been mentioned in trade talks almost his whole career at this point...hopefully he's learned to brush that off by now.

Does this look like a guy that brushes anything?

 

[HanfordGuy]

2 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Does this look like a guy that brushes anything?

 

[HanfordGuy]

Sign Noah Syndergaard 4yr/$60 with a player opt out after 3.

Sign Kris Bryant to 3B and move Rendon to 2B.

Sign Andrelton Simmons.

Sign Corey Kluber to a 1yr deal.

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, HanfordGuy said:

Sign Noah Syndergaard 4yr/$60 with a player opt out after 3.

Sign Kris Bryant to 3B and move Rendon to 2B.

Sign Andrelton Simmons.

Sign Corey Kluber to a 1yr deal.

And do we just DFA Fletcher?  Also, there is zero chance Syndergaard will sign a $60 million deal.  He is going to get a one year deal or a long term deal with an opt out after year one.

[totdprods]

It's really, really difficult to see where we need to improve right now and project what our offseason needs are. There is currently a lot of auditioning and experimenting happening on the big league club with a lot of talented prospects. 

If Sandoval, Barria, Suarez, and Detmers stick, just how much do we need to actually spend on starting pitching?
How long will they stick with Rodriguez and Bachman as starters? Both could be in the pen in '22 and that would alleviate a lot of need there. 
How serious is Jared Walsh's struggles versus lefties? Does this need to be a platoon?
Is Jack Mayfield enjoying a Francisco Arcia moment, or is he at least a legitimate league-average bat with plus defense? Can he fill in at SS for a year or two?
Can Max Stassi stay healthy? Can Matt Thaiss be an effective MLB catcher, even if just on a platoon/back-up basis?

Any one of these could significantly alter the offseason needs. And to be honest, the FA class this year doesn't really seem to stand out in any clear way that fits our needs, aside from perhaps a solid mid-tier starter. 

To be honest, two of the more appealing names to me are Chris Taylor and Mark Canha, but it's a little difficult to know where they'd fit on this team currently. I know Taylor can play SS, but not sure he's good enough defensively there to consider as a primary SS. Canha could handle a corner outfield spot and 1B starts vs. lefties if Walsh struggles there. Neither should cost anything crazy and their versatility would offer good contingencies depending on who struggles or gets hurt throughout the year. 

On the pitching side, there's a ton of options for a solid mid-tier SP, but signing more than one probably becomes unnecessarily risky given that we have a lot of exciting potential SP prospects to play with and mid-tier free agent contracts blow up fairly frequently. Clogging two rotation spots might not be that wise. But signing any one of Stroman, Rodon, Gausman, Cobb, Ray, Rodriguez, Smyly, Wood, Matz, Perez, Pineda, Gray, Duffy or even Syndergaard or Scherzer should be priority just to add some veteran stability. 

I kind of like the idea of looking at guys like Michael Lorenzon or Vince Velazquez or Michael Wacha in a hybrid RP/SP type role too.

I really think the trade market might provide better options for some of our bullpen/rotation needs as well.

[totdprods]

I see a lot of posts about spending to fix the bullpen and signing a couple relievers...but not a lot of discussion on who that exactly is, outside of Iglesias. 

Browsing the FA list for this winter I can say that I am not really impressed with what's out there. Relievers are really difficult to predict and their performance is prone to volatility as is, but who exactly should the Angels target to fix their pen? Again, Iglesias excluded.

 

[Inside Pitch]

26 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I see a lot of posts about spending to fix the bullpen and signing a couple relievers...but not a lot of discussion on who that exactly is, outside of Iglesias. 

Browsing the FA list for this winter I can say that I am not really impressed with what's out there. Relievers are really difficult to predict and their performance is prone to volatility as is, but who exactly should the Angels target to fix their pen? Again, Iglesias excluded.

 

This is why I wish they would start the auditions.  We know what Guerra and company can do.  

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

This is why I wish they would start the auditions.  We know what Guerra and company can do.  

Quijada, Wantz, and Warren are a good start, but I would like to see what guys like Higgins and Ortega can do, even if it means jammin' up the 40-man a bit and putting guys like Slegers, Selman, Guerra on waivers. We've seen what they can do...I can kind of see what they like in Slegers and Selman, but would Criswell (not this year, but maybe next) or Higgins be that big of a difference? 

Hell even Bachman. I want them to develop him as a SP still, but if he pitched from the pen and kicked ass this year, that makes this winter a whole hell of a lot easier to work with knowing he'd be a strong arm added to a hopeful Iglesias re-sign. They can stretch him back out after '22 (a la Corbin Burnes/Julio Urias) once some of the lower-level relief prospects start to ascend and stake a claim in the pen.

Pausing the starter development plan (for one year, I stress) on Suarez, Rodriguez, and Bachman, re-sign Iglesias, sign another good FA SP, and your staff could look like:
Rotation: Ohtani, FA, Sandoval, Barria, Detmers, Canning
Bullpen: Iglesias, Bachman, Rodriguez, Suarez, Mayers, Warren/Wantz/Quijada

The upper-level rotation depth takes a huge hit and is a little shaky on the back with Barria, Detmers, and Canning, but that could be a pretty solid pitching staff.
Maybe one more 'cheaper' FA like Cobb added into the rotation and a guy like Tepera, Yimi Garcia, or Hudson added to the pen.

As 2022 rolls along, you have guys like Yan, Pina, Murphy, Nunan, Tyler, Hernandez all move up into the AA/AAA relief ranks and if they start contributing to the MLB pen as the year goes on, you can start working Bachman, Suarez, Rodriguez back to rotation work for '23.

Edited August 12, 2021 by totdprods

[totdprods]

Had a thought re: Upton…

I’ve often been the first to jump in and mention that due to Upton’s NTC, daughter’s health, comments about feeling wanted in the past and bouncing around, made him an extremely unlikely candidate to waive his NTC and accept a trade. His slight revival this year also contributes to that.

But if Maddon’s intends on limiting him to a part-time player, he might be more open to waiving it this offseason, especially if another California team had some interest, and I could actually see San Francisco, San Diego, or perhaps the Athletics or Dodgers having some interest in Upton for a year, especially if there was some money exchanged or eaten. 

Something to watch, especially if Marsh and Adell start to produce.

[Inside Pitch]

Not on Trevor Bauer.....

[Chuck]

Sign Raisel Iglesias

Sign one of: Max Scherzer, Kevin Gausman, Marcus Stroman, Zack Greinke, Robbie Ray.

Sign two of: Daniel Hudson, Archie Bradley, Ian Kennedy, Kendall Graveman. 

Sign one of Marcus Semien, Carlos Correa or Corey Seager. 

Marsh and Adell are in the outfield with Trout, Upton moved to a backup OF but primary platoon 1B with Jared Walsh. 

Matt Thaiss is the backup C to Max Stassi. 

[ukyah]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

Sign Raisel Iglesias

Sign one of: Max Scherzer, Kevin Gausman, Marcus Stroman, Zack Greinke, Robbie Ray.

Sign two of: Daniel Hudson, Archie Bradley, Ian Kennedy, Kendall Graveman. 

Sign one of Marcus Semien, Carlos Correa or Corey Seager. 

Marsh and Adell are in the outfield with Trout, Upton moved to a backup OF but primary platoon 1B with Jared Walsh. 

Matt Thaiss is the backup C to Max Stassi. 

sounds great, but maybe a fraction of that is going to happen.

[AngelStew43]

I wonder if there has been any thought of converting Canning to relief?   He may make a better closer than he has been a starting pitcher.  

Rollie Fingers was the same way, trouble going more than 5 as a starter, but lights out in the pen. 

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, AngelStew43 said:

I wonder if there has been any thought of converting Canning to relief?   He may make a better closer than he has been a starting pitcher.  

Rollie Fingers was the same way, trouble going more than 5 as a starter, but lights out in the pen. 

I don't think Canning has the velo to stick in the pen...

[AngelStew43]

You may see an uptick in velo if he pitches from the pen.  He can go all out for 1 inning instead of pacing himself to go 5 or 6.  BTW, I checked Baseball Reference.  Goose Gossage was the same way.  Not as good as a starter, dynamite as a reliever. 

[totdprods]

Just now, AngelStew43 said:

You may see an uptick in velo if he pitches from the pen.  He can go all out for 1 inning instead of pacing himself to go 5 or 6.  BTW, I checked Baseball Reference.  Goose Gossage was the same way.  Not as good as a starter, dynamite as a reliever. 

Even then, he's sitting at like 93-94 now and with pretty high effort - look at the injuries. He may gain a mile or two, but that's still pretty low-velo for relievers. 

I'm also pessimistic. I think they should've traded him a year or so ago in a move for a proven pitcher. Had a feeling injuries would handicap him and he'd wind up being like Richards, the next guy we kept expecting to rely on who winds up consistently battling injuries or ineffectiveness as a result of pitching around pain. 

Wild to think next time we see him he will be in his fourth season for the Angels already.

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

Sign Raisel Iglesias

Sign one of: Max Scherzer, Kevin Gausman, Marcus Stroman, Zack Greinke, Robbie Ray.

Sign two of: Daniel Hudson, Archie Bradley, Ian Kennedy, Kendall Graveman. 

Sign one of Marcus Semien, Carlos Correa or Corey Seager. 

Marsh and Adell are in the outfield with Trout, Upton moved to a backup OF but primary platoon 1B with Jared Walsh. 

Matt Thaiss is the backup C to Max Stassi. 

 

11 minutes ago, ukyah said:

sounds great, but maybe a fraction of that is going to happen.

I would be happy with that too. 

Honestly if 1, 2 and 3 happened and we didn't sign a high priced SS and moved Fletcher to SS, Stefanic to 2B (.335/.404/.494 with 12 HR across two levels) I would be thrilled. 

[ukyah]

16 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

 

I would be happy with that too. 

Honestly if 1, 2 and 3 happened and we didn't sign a high priced SS and moved Fletcher to SS, Stefanic to 2B (.335/.404/.494 with 12 HR across two levels) I would be thrilled. 

i would think 1,2,3, would be the absolute limit of what the angels could do, or are likely to do, and that's probably stretching.

[IheartLA]

tell Thaiss/Ward if they can't make the transition to catcher neither one will have a big league career, hopefully one can be the backup and we don't have to sign a terrible player like Suzuki