The Official 2021 Los Angeles Angels Minor League Stats, Reports & Scouting Thread

[stormngt]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

From 2018-21, the years Barria has made major league appearances, there have 1,013 pitchers with at least 10 IP. Barria at 250.1 is 137th on that list. Meaning, he has more innings over the last season than 86.5% of guys who have 10 innings. There are only 135 pitchers--or 4.5 per team--with more total innings during that time, and only one Angel (Andrew Heaney). Meaning, Barria has pitched more major league innings for the Angels since his first appearance than everyone but Heaney.

Kind of a weird and surprising stat, if you think about it.

You must be missing the point that my comments is more to the fact that I am bitching that Barria is not up with the big club.   

[Angelsjunky]

13 minutes ago, stormngt said:

You must be missing the point that my comments is more to the fact that I am bitching that Barria is not up with the big club.   

Oh, duh. Yep, although long-term I see him behind Ohtani, Sandoval, Canning, Suarez, Detmers, and C-Rod, but I'm hoping that the Angels will quit with the mediocre starters and just slot the cheaper--and probably better--Barria in there as necessary.

[rafibomb]

20 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

 

Whoops looks like he came out for an extra inning whoops I thought he was done at 6.0

[Second Base]

That 12/6 slow curve Kochanowicz used tonight looked to be pretty effective. And I've noticed a few times now, when his fastball is up it shows some nice arm side run to it. 

That kid is going to be pretty special in three years. 

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

You realize you're right, right?   The reality is most teams fail miserably.  Any team that can even pull one MLB average everyday player per season in every draft likely feels like they are doing it right.  It's that big of a crapshoot. The draft used to go 40 rounds (even longer before that), just because the failure rates are so high. 

I mean they went 2012, 2013, 2014, without having anything to show for those drafts then hit on two guys in 2015, including a 39th rounder.   Makes you wonder why if they could pull an All Star in the 39th round how they managed to screw up in 158 of the other 160 rounds over those four years.

At this point Taylor Ward is a borderline success story.  He's been a league average hitter with a positive WAR this year.  He keeps it for another year and that 2015 draft will need to be considered as damn near excellent.  This is also why the 2009 draft is often mentioned whenever the conversation of greatest ever draft classes comes up.  

 

feel like I've been bashing my head against the wall on this for years.  Especially when we should have drafted 1 of the three guys that's actually showing some success instead of the one that might end up as the AAAA guy.  Even though 26 other teams did the same or worse with their picks.  

I feel like a broken record sometimes in that you can't build a farm system very quickly without moving expiring assets when you have the chance to do so.  Or when you constantly trade your minor league assets for mediocre major league assets with limited control.  OR even when you trade every asset you are willing to part with for guys who are super close to the majors instead of doing a volume trade for guys that you feel you can develop.  It's a recipe for having no depth.  

It those little trades that deplete you depth.  Where you feel like it's fair at the time and it probably is but do enough of the Bundy, Espinosa, Kinsler, Maybin, Upton type deals.  None of which were inherently or overly damaging to the farm but did they make the team good enough to win?  Because if not, then why bother being 83-79 when you can be 80-82 in any given year.  

You have to be realistic about who you are.  

Don't trade for or even buy meh players.  Bundy and Quintana are in the pen.  Go big or go cheap.  

and the decade of not having an international presence probably hurt more than anything.  Especially when there were no regs and teams were essentially allowed to legally cheat.  

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, Dochalo said:

and the decade of not having an international presence probably hurt more than anything.  Especially when there were no regs and teams were essentially allowed to legally cheat.  

This...  A million times this...   People can complain about the Pujols and Hamilton deals all they want, but those three years before the rules changed where they completely sat out of the big ticket international market was the biggest mistake of the Arte era.

[Blarg]

Meanwhile back in AAA, Jo Adell has quietly done the unnoticeable and that has been lift his OBP to about his minor league career norm which is about 60 points above his batting average.

No, that isn't impressive for a power hitter, you would think higher because of pitchers being cautious and straying out of the zone more, offering him more walks. But baby steps, he is being a little more selective and his batting average is creeping upwards. 

Also it bears noting that at 52 games, this is the second most time he has spent in any one league since being drafted. He played 57 games at Inland before being promoted. 

I think with environmental consistency in fields played, coaching and teammates on a daily/weekly/monthly basis his head can develop past his raw talent skills and he becomes a complete player instead of the many fragments of advancement from one stop to another, constantly having to refocus. He is a Bee now and will be until he joins the Angels for a permanent stay. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Meanwhile back in AAA, Jo Adell has quietly done the unnoticeable and that has been lift his OBP to about his minor league career norm which is about 60 points above his batting average.

No, that isn't impressive for a power hitter, you would think higher because of pitchers being cautious and straying out of the zone more, offering him more walks. But baby steps, he is being a little more selective and his batting average is creeping upwards. 

Also it bears noting that at 52 games, this is the second most time he has spent in any one league since being drafted. He played 57 games at Inland before being promoted. 

I think with environmental consistency in fields played, coaching and teammates on a daily/weekly/monthly basis his head can develop past his raw talent skills and he becomes a complete player instead of the many fragments of advancement from one stop to another, constantly having to refocus. He is a Bee now and will be until he joins the Angels for a permanent stay. 

DEVELOPMENT!!!

 

[Second Base]

Adell is hitting .267 in the most hitter friendly park in the hitter friendly PCL as a 22 year old. Regardless of how many bombs he hits, particularly if his OBP remains as poor as it is, he won't be getting the call any time soon. 

At this point, you have to figure it might be a 2023 before he gets an extended look again, and 2024 before he's actually productive.

I think that Adell is as likely to be traded at the deadline or this winter as he is to be kept and integrated into future plans. 

Ward has a .325 OBP with decent defense and decent power. It's not like he's great but he's probably a better option now and over the next couple years than Jo Adell. And with Marsh and Adams already in the system, the Angels could probably afford to trade Adell. 

[Blarg]

47 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

DEVELOPMENT!!!

 

Well, it's better than regression. My point is he barely got unpacked and get to know his landlord before putting on a different uniform with different coaches telling him different things the last few years. Every minor leaguer has the same shifting around but most keep their cleats in the same grass for extended periods before being rushed to the next level. 

36 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Adell is hitting .267 in the most hitter friendly park in the hitter friendly PCL as a 22 year old. Regardless of how many bombs he hits, particularly if his OBP remains as poor as it is, he won't be getting the call any time soon. 

At this point, you have to figure it might be a 2023 before he gets an extended look again, and 2024 before he's actually productive.

I think that Adell is as likely to be traded at the deadline or this winter as he is to be kept and integrated into future plans. 

Ward has a .325 OBP with decent defense and decent power. It's not like he's great but he's probably a better option now and over the next couple years than Jo Adell. And with Marsh and Adams already in the system, the Angels could probably afford to trade Adell. 

Trading Adell now would be a dumb move. He has not hit a ceiling, he has hardly had what anyone would call a full minor league career since 2020 was a complete wash.

Taylor Ward is 27 and he is a journeyman level player. A guy good enough to cover until you find someone that can reach a higher ceiling. And he will be unless Adell can't progress but he is only 22. 

So please, don't clutter up this conversation with Ward finally playing at league average with 3 years of college and 5 years in the minors under his belt. 

[Angelsjunky]

56 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Adell is hitting .267 in the most hitter friendly park in the hitter friendly PCL as a 22 year old. Regardless of how many bombs he hits, particularly if his OBP remains as poor as it is, he won't be getting the call any time soon. 

At this point, you have to figure it might be a 2023 before he gets an extended look again, and 2024 before he's actually productive.

I think that Adell is as likely to be traded at the deadline or this winter as he is to be kept and integrated into future plans. 

Ward has a .325 OBP with decent defense and decent power. It's not like he's great but he's probably a better option now and over the next couple years than Jo Adell. And with Marsh and Adams already in the system, the Angels could probably afford to trade Adell. 

On the other hand, he's taking a step backward with the power and average to improve his discipline and approach. Hopefully its a "one step back, two steps (or big leap) forward" type of thing. If all goes well, the power comes back, and with it, more average.

Check it out:

6/17 - present (18 games): 9 walks (10.3%), 20 Ks (23.0%), 1 HR, .237/.310/.329.

5/6 - 6/16 (25 games): 1 walk (0.9%), 38 Ks (32.5%), 12 HR, .295/.325/.705.

Now obviously the earlier version is a much better hitter, but no one cares about minor league stats, at least beyond the initial "see, I can hit at this level too." Meaning, what he is doing now (hopefully) is making the necessary adjustments to transition to the majors, not just dominate AAA.

Maybe some of it is pitchers approaching him differently, but he's clearly changed his approach.

The bottom line: I'm not trading Adell now, when he's in the middle of a developmental process. Let's see where he's at by year's end.

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Angelsjunky

[Second Base]

8 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Well, it's better than regression. My point is he barely got unpacked and get to know his landlord before putting on a different uniform with different coaches telling him different things the last few years. Every minor leaguer has the same shifting around but most keep their cleats in the same grass for extended periods before being rushed to the next level. 

Trading Adell now would be a dumb move. He has not hit a ceiling, he has hardly had what anyone would call a full minor league career since 2020 was a complete wash.

Taylor Ward is 27 and he is a journeyman level player. A guy good enough to cover until you find someone that can reach a higher ceiling. And he will be unless Adell can't progress but he is only 22. 

So please, don't clutter up this conversation with Ward finally playing at league average with 3 years of college and 5 years in the minors under his belt. 

And that's where the misunderstanding occurs. Please key in on the statement, "I believe Taylor Ward will be as valuable as Jo Adell across the next three seasons."  This is hardly a bold statement blarg, and I think you're the only one that would treat it as such. 

My reasoning for this statement is fairly straightforward. Ward's offensive production in the majors leagues right now is right around where I picture Adell performing in the major leagues right now with his bat. The difference is that Ward is a better defender than Adell is right now, and thus, a more productive player than Jo Adell in 2021. 

Now Ward is 27 and Adell is 22. Ward isn't done developing yet, but he's close. Adell isn't anywhere near done, hopefully. With marginal expected improvements, they should be about even in terms of value in 2022. In 2023, I think Jo Adell will be better than Ward. 

Now if we are looking at just a three year, investment would you rather stall Adell's development by promoting him and having him take his lumps and not improve the major league team in 2021 and 2022, or would you rather let him make the adjustments in AAA where he clearly belongs? It's not only what's best for the Angels, but also what's best for Adell and Ward as individuals. 

The reason why I believe the Angels may trade Jo at the deadline or this winter is similarly straightforward. He's going to be an asset in 2024 and beyond. If the Angels choose to reallocate some of that value from 2024 and beyond and instead infuse it into the team for 2021, 2022 and 2023, they can afford such a move with Brandon Marsh and Jordyn Adams in the system. 

[Second Base]

16 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

On the other hand, he's taking a step backward with the power and average to improve his discipline and approach. Hopefully its a "one step back, two steps (or big leap) forward" type of thing. If all goes well, the power comes back, and with it, more average.

Check it out:

6/17 - present (18 games): 9 walks (10.3%), 20 Ks (23.0%), 1 HR, .237/.310/.329.

5/6 - 6/16 (25 games): 1 walk (0.9%), 38 Ks (32.5%), 12 HR, .295/.325/.705.

Now obviously the earlier version is a much better hitter, but no one cares about minor league stats, at least beyond the initial "see, I can hit at this level too." Meaning, what he is doing now (hopefully) is making the necessary adjustments to transition to the majors, not just dominate AAA.

Maybe some of it is pitchers approaching him differently, but he's clearly changed his approach.

The bottom line: I'm not trading Adell now, when he's in the middle of a developmental process. Let's see where he's at by year's end.

 

The predominant logic behind exchanging Adell for higher current value is rooted in other personnel.

Outfielders that I feel will develop into marginally productive major leaguers or better by year:

2021 - Taylor Ward

2022 - Brandon Marsh

2023 - Jo Adell

2024 - Jordyn Adams

Since they have Trout for the next decade, and Upton through the end of 2022, if the right deal presents itself to improve the club in 2022, I have no problem trading one of Ward or Adell. 

Adell isn't done developing. No one thinks he is. But I do think it is evident that as a prospect, he was over hyped. If someone is willing to pay for him like he's a top 10 prospect in baseball, and the return has club control for 2022 and even 2023, I make that deal. 

Personally, I think Brandon Marsh is the better player. He's a better defender (not by a little but by a lot), is more aggressive on the bases, and seems to be fine laying off pitches he can't do anything with, whereas Adell swings at some truly stupid balls. I don't think it's pitch recognition as much as it's saying selection. This results in Marsh getting on base at a better clip. And while Adell carries more power than Marsh, I'm sure you've noticed, Angel Stadium is playing like it's Coors Field for LHB. Much of that power could be negated by Marsh's handedness.

It's for all those reasons that I would be willing to trade Adell at the deadline or this winter IF the right deal comes along. 

[Inside Pitch]

47 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Well, it's better than regression. My point is he barely got unpacked and get to know his landlord before putting on a different uniform with different coaches telling him different things the last few years. Every minor leaguer has the same shifting around but most keep their cleats in the same grass for extended periods before being rushed to the next level. 

I wasn't even being remotely sarcastic.   ALL I have wanted from him, CRod and some others is to see actual developmental games.  I said previously that I didn't care if he was hitting 330 for a month if his plate discipline wasn't showing signs of life.   Him being more patient, not swinging at pitches he would normally go after is a great sign.  He's got all the talent in the world but as Doc has said a few times, only thing missing is he needs to learn how to play baseball.

 

[Angel Oracle]

How is Adell’s defense over the past month?   Another critical improvement 

[Revad]

It’s happened to me- if I don’t exercise.

[Angel Oracle]

Gotta love Detmers Ks/BBs ratio!

91/17 in 50 innings 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[Angels 1961]

12 hours ago, Second Base said:

That 12/6 slow curve Kochanowicz used tonight looked to be pretty effective. And I've noticed a few times now, when his fastball is up it shows some nice arm side run to it. 

That kid is going to be pretty special in three years. 

in 2 years 

[Revad]

Wow, agree or not nice analysis.

[stormngt]

4 hours ago, Blarg said:

Well, it's better than regression. My point is he barely got unpacked and get to know his landlord before putting on a different uniform with different coaches telling him different things the last few years. Every minor leaguer has the same shifting around but most keep their cleats in the same grass for extended periods before being rushed to the next level. 

Trading Adell now would be a dumb move. He has not hit a ceiling, he has hardly had what anyone would call a full minor league career since 2020 was a complete wash.

Taylor Ward is 27 and he is a journeyman level player. A guy good enough to cover until you find someone that can reach a higher ceiling. And he will be unless Adell can't progress but he is only 22. 

So please, don't clutter up this conversation with Ward finally playing at league average with 3 years of college and 5 years in the minors under his belt. 

Choose:.

Keep Adell and keep throwing out the Teheran, Bundys, Cobbs, and Quintana on the mound.

Or trade Adell and actually get a controllable quality starting pitcher!  And then go with Ward until Adams is ready.

[eaterfan]

22 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Choose:.

Keep Adell and keep throwing out the Teheran, Bundys, Cobbs, and Quintana on the mound.

Or trade Adell and actually get a controllable quality starting pitcher!  And then go with Ward until Adams is ready.

What do you think we'll get for Adell at this point? Are those guys worse than Lagares?

[Stradling]

15 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

What do you think we'll get for Adell at this point? Are those guys worse than Lagares?

I don’t think his stock is as low as a lot of fans think. Which is to say he’s still got the value of a top ten prospect. 

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, eaterfan said:

What do you think we'll get for Adell at this point? Are those guys worse than Lagares?

These type of  questioned are flawed for the main reason that if you can't get a quality pitcher back you don't trade him. 

My premise is that with Wards adequate play, Adell, Marsh, or Adam's could he traded.  Simple. 

Lagares I don't mind as a fourth outfielder. Problem is because of injuries he is an everyday player this year 

Edited July 9, 2021 by stormngt

[Taylor]

23 hours ago, rafibomb said:

Reid Detmers was flat-out dominant today:

4.0 IP  1 H (bloop single)  0 R  0 BB  7 SO  57 pitches (40 strikes)

Trash Pandas play-by-play believes the early hook was due to the Futures Game being on Sunday, which Detmers will be participating in.

Season ERA down to 3.60 with 91 strikeouts in 50 innings pitched (17 walks) and a 1.16 WHIP.

 

 

His windup is interesting.

[Angelsjunky]

6 hours ago, Second Base said:

The predominant logic behind exchanging Adell for higher current value is rooted in other personnel.

Outfielders that I feel will develop into marginally productive major leaguers or better by year:

2021 - Taylor Ward

2022 - Brandon Marsh

2023 - Jo Adell

2024 - Jordyn Adams

Since they have Trout for the next decade, and Upton through the end of 2022, if the right deal presents itself to improve the club in 2022, I have no problem trading one of Ward or Adell. 

Adell isn't done developing. No one thinks he is. But I do think it is evident that as a prospect, he was over hyped. If someone is willing to pay for him like he's a top 10 prospect in baseball, and the return has club control for 2022 and even 2023, I make that deal. 

Personally, I think Brandon Marsh is the better player. He's a better defender (not by a little but by a lot), is more aggressive on the bases, and seems to be fine laying off pitches he can't do anything with, whereas Adell swings at some truly stupid balls. I don't think it's pitch recognition as much as it's saying selection. This results in Marsh getting on base at a better clip. And while Adell carries more power than Marsh, I'm sure you've noticed, Angel Stadium is playing like it's Coors Field for LHB. Much of that power could be negated by Marsh's handedness.

It's for all those reasons that I would be willing to trade Adell at the deadline or this winter IF the right deal comes along. 

Good stuff, and I basically agree. I too prefer Marsh, as have several of us for a year or two. He's got a much higher floor and a ceiling not much lower. He's exactly the type of player I really like: he's average or better at everything, hits tons of line-drives, steals bases, walks a bit, some pop, good defense, etc. 

Anyhow, it really comes down to what other teams offer. If they offer a similar upside player, or a slightly lower upside player who is ready, then maybe. But I'm not trading him just to make a trade.