The Official 2021 Los Angeles Angels Minor League Stats, Reports & Scouting Thread

[AngelStew43]

Braxton Martinez with 3 more hits today, now hitting .340 for the season in Inland Empire.  

Old for the league at 27, maybe due for a bump to Rocket City to see what he can do there? 

[Angels 1961]

2 more strong inn by Danish

[rafibomb]

7 hours ago, totdprods said:

Coleman Crow looking good in his first start… so far, 5 IP, 3 H, 0 R, BB, 3 K, 70 pitches, 45 strikes. 

The slider looks really good..

 

 

 

[arch stanton]

The slider looks good but I wonder if he can command it to the glove side and give righties the Howie treatment

[Docwaukee]

10 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

The slider looks good but I wonder if he can command it to the glove side and give righties the Howie treatment

was wondering the same thing.  sometimes when guys try to throw a slider like that as a ball that looks to be a strike it can flatten out and lose depth.  kinda like that slow curve from Detmers.  

Curious of the fb velo.  He's got that sling thing going on.   Kinda Stroman like.  Only saw the one FB and it likely wasn't a good example of normal.  Seems like FB command is gonna make or break which is sorta duh I guess but that slider curve thing already seems to be something he can throw in any count.  

[Docwaukee]

and to add on, sometimes you'll hear about guys with two pitches ie FB and slider which give them a pen profile.  

someone who knows more about this than I can correct me as it's just an observation, but there's a big difference between being able to get a swing and miss on a breaking pitch in the zone vs. one out of the zone.  If you can get them to both have the same shape yet start one out of the zone and have it break in vs. start it in and have it break out yet still get swings and misses on both then it really functions as two pitches on it's own.  Not saying that Crow can do that.  Not a lot of guys can.  

Frankly, I thought I saw that in Canning but that breaking ball for a strike seems to be what's really hurting him of late.  It's just not fooling anyone.  Doesn't have the depth I remember.  Sometimes it's because they pick up bad happens and throw it too hard.  Anyway, point being that not all two pitch guys should be considered the same.  

[Inside Pitch]

We are deep enough into the season where we can start believing some of these pitching performances are more than the lingering effects of the lingering effects of a long layoff.

Coleman Crow was a known albeit underrated (because of size), guy while in HS... the really neat thing about Crow is that the slider is a new pitch for him.  We are witnessing a breakout in its infancy, a guy showing success after showing signs of development, unlike a guy like Daniel who was a legit talent ala CRod.  Davis Daniel simply needed to get on the mound.  I was talking him up in ST for no other reason than I saw him in college and had seen him look like a guy even then.  Again, his FB isn't 100% back yet or he's backed off on it to get better control, but there's more there still.  Both these have to be viewed as huge success stories thus far.  

So, about Canning.... someone people are likely down on.  What we are seeing now with Canning is IMO what happens when a guy with four pitches is rushed, shows signs of success, but then starts tinkering with all his pitches and then fails to truly really develop any of them.  He's been IMO a victim of both the team's failures and his own success.  Like Suarez, he should been in the minors getting the final touches on his skills set, but the team had no other options than to force him to finish on the fly.

Sending Canning down is possibly the best thing they could do for him so long as they use it for actual development or to focus on fixing/working on one thing.  If Maddon played any part in that decision, Kudos to him.

I've not been happy with a lot of the choices made this season but the CRod and Canning demotions are both great decisions.  Neither move seems to be about forcing wins so much as they appear to be about long term winning.  Perhaps it's a sign Minasian and company have a better feel for the talent they have on hand and/or they are simply using the development of other players to try to take advantage of their newfound flexibility in hopes of helping talented players reach their potential, no clue.  But both those moves show a willingness and focus to develop players rather than focus on the now -- this seems true of the Adell situation as well.

Sometimes the best signs of a team doing the right/smart thing is that it's painful for the MLB team. I think the team's thought process regards how they will approach the deadline may be in play here as it relates to Canning/CRod.  Trying to fix, stretch out, develop, guys in the minors a month away from the deadline may be an indication they are looking to rely on them more in the near future.... Maybe it's Perry playing 4D chess.

But whatever the case, the stuff happening in AA and with guys like Crow/Daniels are huge positives.  The Canning/CRod moves should be too...

[rafibomb]

Also small sample size but the last 15 games (75 plate appearances) for Adell he has a walk rate at 12% and K rate of 26% as opposed to a walk rate of 3.8% and K rate of 33.3% before heading into that span. The downside however he is hitting just .209 during those last 15 games. I have not been paying attention to his at-bats so I am not sure if the organization is telling him to focus on working counts more.  Earlier in the season he was swinging early in the count as soon as he got a pitch to hit but we already know what he can do swinging the bat. Hopefully he can work the two approaches together because a walk rate of 10% would be huge for him. The last time he had a walk-rate of 10% was in 2019 where he had a walk rate of 10.6% in 340 plate appearances (76 games) so it is not entirely impossible that he can reach that level again. Like @Dochalomentioned above Perry and company have done a great job not calling Adell up during his scorching hot streak earlier this year and choosing to focus on his development instead. They know what he can do when he's swinging a hot bat. If anything they are just as encouraged of the discipline as of late (despite the low average) than his hot hitting earlier in the year.

Edited July 5, 2021 by rafibomb

[Angelsjunky]

6 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Trying to fix, stretch out, develop, guys in the minors a month away from the deadline may be an indication they are looking to rely on them more in the near future.... Maybe it's Perry playing 4D chess.

Good post, and I think that's exactly what the Angels are doing, although wouldn't call it 4D chess...it seems pretty logical and straight-forward, to me.

As for Adell, @rafibomb, sometimes you need to take a step back (lowered BA, power) to go two steps forward. 

I'm also reminded of what I think Doc or IP was saying, that we need to see how Adell handles pitchers figuring him out. Maybe both are happening: he's being pitched too differently AND he's making adjustments, which is a good sign. Meaning, he (or his coaches) know that he can't just keep swinging for an HR, but needs to develop his approach to take that next step forward.

At this point, I wouldn't expect an Adell call-up until September at the earliest, and maybe only after the AAA season is over - meaning, he might not get more than a dozen games on the Angels this year.

[Inside Pitch]

21 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I'm also reminded of what I think Doc or IP was saying, that we need to see how Adell handles pitchers figuring him out. Maybe both are happening: he's being pitched too differently AND he's making adjustments, which is a good sign.

This is EXACTLY what I wanted to see -- development.   We know if he hits a ball, it's going to be hit hard and it will go really far.  What we still hadn't seen is him do is know when he can't destroy a ball and letting it go.  Like Doc has said, it's not that he lacks pitch recognition, he's lacked the judgement to let a pitch go because he knows he's got rare tools.  Hopefully that's what's happening now.    

The Angels have been focusing on IN YEAR results for all of the last 5-7 years almost to their own detriment.   Canning, CRod, Adell are legitimate talents, but they are all at different stages of development..  Canning is likely less about development at this point and more about focusing on ONE thing at a time.  But all three should be big parts of the team's future and seeing the team thinking longer term is maybe the biggest best develop IMO.

 

[Docwaukee]

55 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Good post, and I think that's exactly what the Angels are doing, although wouldn't call it 4D chess...it seems pretty logical and straight-forward, to me.

As for Adell, @rafibomb, sometimes you need to take a step back (lowered BA, power) to go two steps forward. 

I'm also reminded of what I think Doc or IP was saying, that we need to see how Adell handles pitchers figuring him out. Maybe both are happening: he's being pitched too differently AND he's making adjustments, which is a good sign. Meaning, he (or his coaches) know that he can't just keep swinging for an HR, but needs to develop his approach to take that next step forward.

At this point, I wouldn't expect an Adell call-up until September at the earliest, and maybe only after the AAA season is over - meaning, he might not get more than a dozen games on the Angels this year.

Every strike looked like a potential 500 ft hr to Adell.  And in AAA he was way more likely to get mistakes that he could crush.  He was even hitting some really good pitches for monster shots.  And because the quality of pitching at AAA isn't what he'll see in mlb then he has to take it upon himself in a way to consciously let certain pitches go.  Something I hope he is working through right now.  Because when he get's back to mlb, pitchers aren't going to make those mistakes nearly as often.  They're just of better quality.  

And btw, don't think for a second that him intermingling some walks and hrs into his repertoire at AAA means he's good to go.  He's still likely going to have a significant adjustment period in mlb.  He's not Trout.  Or even Acuna or Tatis.  Most really good mlb players won't even hit their strike till they're at least 25ish.  He just turned 22.  

The guy could end up a superstar by the time he's 28 as long as he continues to embrace the development process and doesn't just rely on his tremendous raw talent/tools.  And to me that's always been the point.  When does he stop just being a tremendous athlete and become a baseball player.  In some ways, he actually has a tougher job than a lot of prospects.  Like Marsh for example.  Adell kinda has to change who he is as a player to some degree.  Accept that all the tools in the world doesn't always translate into success.  

This is just me talkin' now but the reason why Trout is a generational talent is because he's got the tools to be a free safety in the NFL but he's got the baseball gene.  Tatis has it.  Acuna has it.  Adell?  Maybe not so much.  Buxton is similar and now at age 27 we're starting to see him sort of adopt that gene.  

I'm gonna put Adell on the couch for a second and tell him that it's ok that he might not be the generational (or potential) type player of a Tatis or Acuna or Trout or Guerrero Jr.  That he needs to accept he's not at that level and accept he's gonna have to go through a development process similar to that of lesser players in order to succeed.  

[Angelsjunky]

49 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

This is EXACTLY what I wanted to see -- development.   We know if he hits a ball, it's going to be hit hard and it will go really far.  What we still hadn't seen is him do is know when he can't destroy a ball and letting it go.  Like Doc has said, it's not that he lacks pitch recognition, he's lacked the judgement to let a pitch go because he knows he's got rare tools.  Hopefully that's what's happening now.    

The Angels have been focusing on IN YEAR results for all of the last 5-7 years almost to their own detriment.   Canning, CRod, Adell are legitimate talents, but they are all at different stages of development..  Canning is likely less about development at this point and more about focusing on ONE thing at a time.  But all three should be big parts of the team's future and seeing the team thinking longer term is maybe the biggest best develop IMO.

 

Yes, agreed. As I said upthread awhile ago, I don't even think CRod's brief tenure in the majors was detrimental to his development. He has had exposure to big league hitters, knows what they're about. What he's doing now is essentially re-adapting his repertoire to being a starter and stretching out. He's already a big league caliber pitcher, with an arsenal that is better suited to starting, imo. But I think the Angels realized they could either have a good reliever or a very good starter, even if the latter is riskier. 

My hope with Adell is that, while it will take a bit longer in the minors--probably at least through this season, it won't take as long as might be feared. On one hand, he looks like a guy who needs another year or two of development. I mean, in some ways he's playing like a 19-year old in Rookie ball but is 22 and in AAA. Some of these things should have been ironed out over his minor league development. But the fact that he's able to do what he's doing with his discipline issues speaks of immense talent. And it may not take as long as we think: As I've said with Rengifo, it might just "pop" and he realizes that he can still hit tons of bombs by not trying to hit tons of bombs, but just getting on base and hitting the ball hard. Once he gets to that point and sustains it for a month or two and he'll be in the big leagues. I think we're getting to that point; not there yet, but we're no longer in the "every ball I make contact with goes out, so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing" phase.

As for Canning...he could just need a handful of starts in AAA. Everything is there, it just seems like he needs to reset, return to basics, and in a lower pressure context. I wouldn't be surprised to see him struggle for a start or two, though, especially in the bandbox that is Salt Lake.

[Angelsjunky]

7 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

And btw, don't think for a second that him intermingling some walks and hrs into his repertoire at AAA means he's good to go.  He's still likely going to have a significant adjustment period in mlb.  He's not Trout.  Or even Acuna or Tatis.  Most really good mlb players won't even hit their strike till they're at least 25ish.  He just turned 22.  

The guy could end up a superstar by the time he's 28 as long as he continues to embrace the development process and doesn't just rely on his tremendous raw talent/tools. 

Good post, but I just wanted to highlight this part. This has always been the case, which is why a couple years ago I suggest that it would take a few years in the majors for us to see his best form, and that his first year or two might be disappointing relative to expectations. 

We're seeing the fallout of him being rushed last year, when he should have been in AAA, doing what he's doing now. In a way, it has been a year and a half lost for Adell from a development perspective - not just 2020, but half of 2021 as he relied on his pure talent, perhaps in a desperate attempt to impress and make it back up. On the other hand, it seems that he's now learning that he has to be more than just naturally talented. Better late(ish) than never.

But yeah, what was true a couple years ago is true (or truer) today: Adell will not hit the major league ground running but will require some patience. But I think the key is getting him to a "higher on-ramp," so that he isn't completely lost (again) once he hits the major leagues. The Angels will do everything they can to avoid that, even if it means keeping him in AAA past the point it seems his numbers warranted it (otherwise he would have been up a month ago).

 

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Good post, but I just wanted to highlight this part. This has always been the case, which is why a couple years ago I suggest that it would take a few years in the majors for us to see his best form, and that his first year or two might be disappointing relative to expectations. 

We're seeing the fallout of him being rushed last year, when he should have been in AAA, doing what he's doing now. In a way, it has been a year and a half lost for Adell from a development perspective - not just 2020, but half of 2021 as he relied on his pure talent, perhaps in a desperate attempt to impress and make it back up. On the other hand, it seems that he's now learning that he has to be more than just naturally talented. Better late(ish) than never.

But yeah, what was true a couple years ago is true (or truer) today: Adell will not hit the major league ground running but will require some patience. But I think the key is getting him to a "higher on-ramp," so that he isn't completely lost (again) once he hits the major leagues. The Angels will do everything they can to avoid that, even if it means keeping him in AAA past the point it seems his numbers warranted it (otherwise he would have been up a month ago).

 

I'm still not over how stupid it was to bring him up last year.  Damn that was dumb.  It's kinda like that commercial you see that just so dumb and you wonder how a bunch of people sat in a board room and somehow gave it the green light.  

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

I'm still not over how stupid it was to bring him up last year.  Damn that was dumb.  It's kinda like that commercial you see that just so dumb and you wonder how a bunch of people sat in a board room and somehow gave it the green light.  

Well, it was dumb last year but hindsight makes it really dumb. They were caught between a rock and a hard place; they wanted their golden boy to get playing time and took a risk. So I get it, even if at the time it was ill-advised - it did make a kind of sense.

[Docwaukee]

34 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Well, it was dumb last year but hindsight makes it really dumb. They were caught between a rock and a hard place; they wanted their golden boy to get playing time and took a risk. So I get it, even if at the time it was ill-advised - it did make a kind of sense.

the kind of sense it made is the made up kind IMO.  

How were they caught between a rock and a hard place?  They still had Ward and Goodwin at the time.  This year they're throwing Rengifo and Rojas out there.  

The only upside was some pipe dream that was never gonna happen where things just clicked for Adell at the major league level and he became a stud.  At 21.  after struggling in AAA the previous year.  

What is a reasonable scenario for him at that age in the bigs?  He does ok for 3 years from age 21-23 and then takes off at 24?  Great.  you just wasted 3 years of club control when he could have been getting better in the minors.  

At least they've done it right with him this year so far.  

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I'm still not over how stupid it was to bring him up last year.  Damn that was dumb.  It's kinda like that commercial you see that just so dumb and you wonder how a bunch of people sat in a board room and somehow gave it the green light.  

I'm right there with you..... it's almost like I spent most of the spring talking how not ready he was.

I still can't believe they did that.

[Tank]

On 7/3/2021 at 11:24 AM, Angelsjunky said:

Hopefully Salma Hayek and Penelope Cruz are waiting for me in my bed.

hate to disappoint you but your name never came up in our, um, interactions today.

[Angel Oracle]

20 minutes ago, Tank said:

hate to disappoint you but your name never came up in our, um, interactions today.

Was that at INO?   Did they order the fries?

[mmc]

 

[Angelsjunky]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

the kind of sense it made is the made up kind IMO.  

How were they caught between a rock and a hard place?  They still had Ward and Goodwin at the time.  This year they're throwing Rengifo and Rojas out there.  

The only upside was some pipe dream that was never gonna happen where things just clicked for Adell at the major league level and he became a stud.  At 21.  after struggling in AAA the previous year.  

What is a reasonable scenario for him at that age in the bigs?  He does ok for 3 years from age 21-23 and then takes off at 24?  Great.  you just wasted 3 years of club control when he could have been getting better in the minors.  

At least they've done it right with him this year so far.  

Again, I think it was ill-conceived, but I understand why they did it - and it wasn't for the major league team, I think, but because they wanted him to play. The upside wasn't the pipe dream that you mention, but that he would hold his own and stick. It misfired, predictably. 

[rafibomb]

2nd rehab start for Marsh

1-3, 2 RBI’s, 1 BB, 1 SO

pls hurry

[jsnpritchett]

18 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

2nd rehab start for Marsh

1-3, 2 RBI’s, 1 BB, 1 SO

pls hurry

My guess is that they'll want him to play at AAA for a long time to see if he can stay healthy and get back on track against competitive pitching.

Edited July 6, 2021 by jsnpritchett

[rafibomb]

7 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

My guess is that they'll want him to play at AA for a long time to see if he can stay healthy and get back on track against competitive pitching.

My guess is Triple-A after Arizona as that’s where he has been all season. At least I hope.

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, rafibomb said:

My guess is Triple-A after Arizona as that’s where he has been all season. At least I hope.

Yes, sorry.  Meant AAA.  Just left one A off.  Ha ha.