Fixing the team for 2021 and 2022

[Hubs]

Looking over the payroll and depth chart for 2021 and 2022, after the trade deadline, and I see a lot of different ways the Angels could go.

I still don't think they're that far away.

First though, 2021 will be Albert Pujols' last in Anaheim. He wont be resigned but he won't be let go either. 2022 is Likely Justin Upton's last year here, he won't likely be traded this offseason, but could next year if he gets his swing back. Right now, he is untradeable.

The Angels have two free agents in 2021, Simmons and Teheran.

They have 4 players under contract for 2021 and three for 2022. That's it. Those Four players make $119 in real salary in 2021, and $102 in 2022. Those guys are: Trout, Rendon, Pujols, and Upton.

They have 13 players eligible for arbitration likely in 2021 though, and 9-10 in 2022.

Those names are mostly relief pitchers. Dylan Bundy, Andrew Heaney, Max Stassi, and Shohei Ohtani are the ones who are not in 2021. The other 9 are Hansel Robles, Cam Bedrosian, Ryan Buchter, Matt Andriese, Noe Ramirez, Keynan Middleton, Jacob Barnes, Mike Mayers, and Felix Pena.

Of those names, the three most expensive relievers all could be non-tendered, Robles, Bedrosian, and Andriese.

In 2022, Bundy, Heaney, Bedrosian, Robles, Buchter, and Andriese are free agents I think. Add David Fletcher, Ty Buttrey to the first time list, and maybe Justin Anderson or Ty Buttrey to the names above.

The Angels needs in 2021 look to be starting pitching related. The pen is also up in the air.

Currently I'd say four pitchers are locks for the 6-man rotation for 2021, and that's Ohtani, Heaney, Bundy, and Canning. That leaves two spots for free agents or internal options like Detmers, Sandoval, Barria, Pena, and Naughton. I see the Angels attempting to sign two starters. One of the top three guys, and a mid range guy like Richards or Minor or something.

If you built an 8 man pen from the names currently on the roster, it would likely feature Buttrey, Bedrosian, Pena, Mayers, Ramirez, Middleton, and probably Milner. There is one more name, and it could be internal or it could be a free agent. In addition, a lot of these guys still have options, so its possible that any of the starters who don't make the rotation could end up being relievers like Sandoval, Suarez, Barria, other guys like Barnes or Andriese, or Luke Bard, or Chris Rodriguez.

The pen needs help. A closer (Kirby Yates?) would certainly help, maybe in addition to another reliever.

I see them spending money here which doesn't usually happen.

As far as the lineup, I don't see them doing much except maybe adding a platoon first baseman if they feel they don't have a guy in Ward, Walsh or Thaiss. I also can see them resigning Simmons or letting him walk, in addition to possibly bringing back LaStella or another guy like DJ La Mahieu. But Pitching has to be the priority. Simmons helps if they go get a ground ball guy, they'll likely have the best defensive infield in baseball, but none of those guys are among the top free agents.

I think they could go for another one year catcher like Castro or Chirinos, or someone like that, but think that they'll likely stick to Stassi and Bemboom or Briceno.

From the minors, I expect Marsh and Detmers to come up. That's it. No other major reinforcements.

In 2022, I expect Detmers to be a lock for the rotation, and if they are lucky enough to draft Rocker or Leiter, they could appear, but I expect them to miss out.

 

 

[totdprods]

The first of sure to be many offseason predictions/wishlists:

• Sign Trevor Bauer, ideally to his goofy one-year deal thing. Stroman as a fall-back.
• Sign Joc Pederson - he can platoon with Upton/Adell until one steadies the ship, and can pick up playing time at 1B. Try to keep it to a one/two-year deal. He’d be trade bait if squeezed out by prospects. 
• Re-sign Tommy La Stella to split time at 2B/1B and DH. The contact, power, patience, and lack of K’s profile too well in our lineup to not bring back. Re-signing Simmons to strengthen the mid-infield is just a hair below for me on the priority list, simply because I think he’ll get too much money, years, and we need the bat. I think Fletcher can grow into a good stopgap SS.
• Swing a trade for the best controllable SP you can get with a combo of Suarez, Rengifo, Adams, Thaiss, or lower-level guys, including Knowles, Soriano, Jackson, etc., even if it’s just another Dylan Bundy-type (Junis or Duffy? Daniel Norris?) or a younger unproven arm like a Jordan Yamamoto, John Means, Trent Thornton, Spencer Turnbull...
• Get Sandoval into a role similar to Pena, and Chris Rodriguez, and Hector Yan into pen work ASAP, even this fall. Get Detmers up for some starts.
• Sign a vet catcher to a one-year deal. Molina? Castro? McCann? Any would be fine.

Edited September 3, 2020 by totdprods

[Angelsjunky]

The Arizona Fall League will be crucial - assuming it happens. Pitchers like Detmers, Rodriguez and Suarez should be there (if eligible), along with Marsh, Thaiss and Jones.

I think it is crucial to bring up Marsh and Thaiss ASAP, because if either hits then they don't need to improve 1B/DH, or sign another outfielder. Money saved.

I expect probably only one free agent starter--the best they can sign--and then a trade for another starter, possibly a projectable lottery ticket.

I agree that a single elite reliever might be targeted, or possibly two solid options, and then fleshing it out with in-house solutions.

 

[Angels 1961]

You cannot put Ohtani as a lock for rotation. His arm issues go back to last year in Japan. If he comes back and pitches great but I do not see that happening. Ohtani has not looked good as a hitter this year so far. I can see halos trying him at 1B or OF as he could be answer for 1 of those positions. Maybe as Yankees did with the Babe,  Ohtani should be position player. 

[Pujols4MVP]

They need to find a way to replace the production loss of Simmons, La Stella & Goodwin or add more pitching.

On paper the team in 2021 looks like they will be losing alot of games by a score of 2 to 12.

[Angel Oracle]

Pitching, pitching, pitching

Defense, defense, defense 

Fundamentals, fundamentals

Better scouting 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Angels in 2030]

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

The Arizona Fall League will be crucial - assuming it happens. Pitchers like Detmers, Rodriguez and Suarez should be there (if eligible), along with Marsh, Thaiss and Jones.

I think it is crucial to bring up Marsh and Thaiss ASAP, because if either hits then they don't need to improve 1B/DH, or sign another outfielder. Money saved.

I expect probably only one free agent starter--the best they can sign--and then a trade for another starter, possibly a projectable lottery ticket.

I agree that a single elite reliever might be targeted, or possibly two solid options, and then fleshing it out with in-house solutions.

 

The lack of a minor league season really, really screwed Eppler and the Angels in a tremendous way. They had a ton of talent in Rookie Ball/Low A set to make their full-season debuts. Jackson, Aquino, Knowles, Deveaux, Paris, Vera, Holmes, Ramirez...any one of them could have vaulted into Top 100 territory with big seasons. It’s how Adell jumped so quickly. Adams could be a Top 100 (50?) if he had a strong season. 

There was extensive A+/AA pitching depth that would have been tested in AA and AAA - Hernandez, Brady, Rodriguez, Yan, Criswell, Lind, Duensing, almost a dozen other pitchers. 

Obviously, every team was affected, but the Angels’ distinct waves of prospects were really hurt since most of their high-upside talent was in the far lower-levels and needed legitimizing to increase trade value and talent, and their next MLB-ready wave was due to hit AA, one of the toughest and telling stages in the farm ladder. 

[Vlad27Trout27]

• Sign Bauer. [5 yrs 105 mil] auuming
•  sign either Bruce or Pederson (which ever is cheaper) to platnoon in the of, and 1st.
• Sign Ray/Minor [1yr 10 mil]
• either bring simmons back or La Stella
• Sign Kluber and Sanchez to a minor league deal
• hit the jackpot in the next draft and all the guys to devlop. 

[Dtwncbad]

Fixing the team for 2017 and 2018

Fixing the team for 2018 and 2019

Fixing the team for 2019 and 2020

Fixing the team for 2020 and 2021

Fixing the team for 2021 and 2022

[Angels 1961]

This  winter I sign Trevor Bauer, Liam Hendriks, Tommy Boy and give Simmons a QO.

[Angelsjunky]

On 9/3/2020 at 3:56 PM, totdprods said:

The lack of a minor league season really, really screwed Eppler and the Angels in a tremendous way. They had a ton of talent in Rookie Ball/Low A set to make their full-season debuts. Jackson, Aquino, Knowles, Deveaux, Paris, Vera, Holmes, Ramirez...any one of them could have vaulted into Top 100 territory with big seasons. It’s how Adell jumped so quickly. Adams could be a Top 100 (50?) if he had a strong season. 

There was extensive A+/AA pitching depth that would have been tested in AA and AAA - Hernandez, Brady, Rodriguez, Yan, Criswell, Lind, Duensing, almost a dozen other pitchers. 

Obviously, every team was affected, but the Angels’ distinct waves of prospects were really hurt since most of their high-upside talent was in the far lower-levels and needed legitimizing to increase trade value and talent, and their next MLB-ready wave was due to hit AA, one of the toughest and telling stages in the farm ladder. 

Yeah, I hear you.

On the positive side, I expect to see big jumps from some of those players next year. Even though 2020 is somewhat lost, it isn't entirely - a portion of development is physical and mental maturation. Meaning, not only play experience. We'll also get a sense of who among the prospects are really dedicated, as they should be working hard on skill development. 

I'm wondering what sort of condition Maitan is going to show up in next year.

[Warfarin]

On 9/3/2020 at 11:38 AM, totdprods said:

The first of sure to be many offseason predictions/wishlists:

• Sign Trevor Bauer, ideally to his goofy one-year deal thing. Stroman as a fall-back.
• Sign Joc Pederson - he can platoon with Upton/Adell until one steadies the ship, and can pick up playing time at 1B. Try to keep it to a one/two-year deal. He’d be trade bait if squeezed out by prospects. 
• Re-sign Tommy La Stella to split time at 2B/1B and DH. The contact, power, patience, and lack of K’s profile too well in our lineup to not bring back. Re-signing Simmons to strengthen the mid-infield is just a hair below for me on the priority list, simply because I think he’ll get too much money, years, and we need the bat. I think Fletcher can grow into a good stopgap SS.
• Swing a trade for the best controllable SP you can get with a combo of Suarez, Rengifo, Adams, Thaiss, or lower-level guys, including Knowles, Soriano, Jackson, etc., even if it’s just another Dylan Bundy-type (Junis or Duffy? Daniel Norris?) or a younger unproven arm like a Jordan Yamamoto, John Means, Trent Thornton, Spencer Turnbull...
• Get Sandoval into a role similar to Pena, and Chris Rodriguez, and Hector Yan into pen work ASAP, even this fall. Get Detmers up for some starts.
• Sign a vet catcher to a one-year deal. Molina? Castro? McCann? Any would be fine.

Realistically, I do not think there will be a lot of money to spend this offseason, if you factor in likely arbitration figures and whatnot.

If we sign Bauer, I think that probably ends what we can do moving forward.  

Just in terms of what I would do...

1.  Sign Bauer - not sure if he wants a multi-year deal, but he will likely cost somewhere around 25-30mil AAV on a long-term deal, or considerably higher on his one-year contract desire.

2.  Trade Heaney to a contender (Yankees?) for a FV 45-type SP prospect (Clarke?, someone like that) - someone who is cheap and can fill the SP4-ish role for many years and help us balance the various large contracts we have

3.  Try to negotiate an extension for Bundy, so that we can have him in the fold long-term

4.  Train Ohtani to play RF, so he can start off the year there (with Adell moving to LF).  When Marsh is ready, he can slide into RF and push Ohtani back to DH (or, alternatively, have him train at 1B).

That's basically it.  

Lineup (at some point in 2021):  SS Fletcher, CF Trout, 3B Rendon, DH Ohtani, LF Adell, RF Marsh, 1B Thaiss / Pujols, C Stassi/Bemboom, 2B Rengifo/Jones

Rotation:  Bauer, Bundy, Clarke/SP prospect we acquire, Canning, Barria, Ohtani***, with Sandoval + Suarez as immediate depth and possibly Naughton + Detmers as depth beyond that.  Maybe even Chris Rodriguez.

This is contingent on a few things:

1.  Adell has to show progress, which I am confident will occur

2.  If Ohtani is healthy and can actually make some contributions in the rotation, such that he can flash his year 1 potential that we saw, then we suddenly have a possibly dominant top 3 in Bauer, Ohtani, and Bundy.

We need some lucky breaks, which I don't really count on happening, but the potential is there for sure.

[Warfarin]

5 minutes ago, Vladdylonglegs said:

As I’ve been saying for a whole decade now, this team has WAY too many holes to fix via free agency. Stop the Chinese water torture and just rebuild already. 
 

With that said, we can all expect Eppler to go dumpster diving for pitching again and the reclamation projects he brings in will have most on here convinced that the Angels will win 95+ after their mental gymnastics routine. 

I do not think it'll be Eppler running the show anymore after this season.  I think Arte will move on.  I really hope he plucks someone from the Rays or Dodgers (i.e. Friedman's tree), but I fear he will hire Dombrowski instead.

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I do not think it'll be Eppler running the show anymore after this season.  I think Arte will move on.  I really hope he plucks someone from the Rays or Dodgers (i.e. Friedman's tree), but I fear he will hire Dombrowski instead.

I really don’t know why people are so afraid of Dave Dombrowski.

Lets get real.  In about 20 years he won four pennants and two World Series.

The Angels have won ONE fucking WS in almost 60 years.

I can hardly get on board with being afraid of a GM that would (shaking in my boots) try to win a WS but could potentially disrupt this magical run of 60 years we have had.

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I really don’t know why people are so afraid of Dave Dombrowski.

Lets get real.  In about 20 years he won four pennants and two World Series.

The Angels have won ONE fucking WS in almost 60 years.

I can hardly get on board with being afraid of a GM that would (shaking in my boots) try to win a WS but could potentially disrupt this magical run of 60 years we have had.

If he is the Dombrowski that builds a farm, then fine, welcome aboard.  If he is the one that trades heaven and earth for a shot at the playoffs, no thanks.  He was Dipoto if the Angels won it in 2014.  

[Dtwncbad]

34 minutes ago, Stradling said:

If he is the Dombrowski that builds a farm, then fine, welcome aboard.  If he is the one that trades heaven and earth for a shot at the playoffs, no thanks.  He was Dipoto if the Angels won it in 2014.  

He is the experienced GM capable of executing many different types of plans.

And as much as people keep resisting this reality (because they hold on to the dream of being great at the majors AND having a stacked farm), this current version of the Angels probably should take a crack at loading up to win now knowing there could be some leaner years down the road.

Adding two bad ass starters completely changes this team and makes many of the other soft spots on the roster not really an issue.

I know people would freak out if Adams, Marsh, and even Canning all got traded away.  But if they were converted into what this team needs to be a legitimate World Series contender for the next 3 years, it is worth it.

Nobody wants a stacked minor leagues more than I do.  But I think the problem today has not been the Angels recklessly trading away future All Stars and superstars.  The problem has been they had been doing a terrible job at drafting and developing.

I don’t want to mis up different problems.

Its OK to trade for what you need.  But you also have to fix the draft and develop problem.

Personally I don’t see Dombrowski as an issue because he is clearly good at winning.   And he has a ton of experience.  So I have to believe he (as much as a anyone) is smart enough to see what else might need to change.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

He is the experienced GM capable of executing many different types of plans.

And as much as people keep resisting this reality (because they hold on to the dream of being great at the majors AND having a stacked farm), this current version of the Angels probably should take a crack at loading up to win now knowing there could be some leaner years down the road.

Adding two bad ass starters completely changes this team and makes many of the other soft spots on the roster not really an issue.

I know people would freak out if Adams, Marsh, and even Canning all got traded away.  But if they were converted into what this team needs to be a legitimate World Series contender for the next 3 years, it is worth it.

Nobody wants a stacked minor leagues more than I do.  But I think the problem today has not been the Angels recklessly trading away future All Stars and superstars.  The problem has been they had been doing a terrible job at drafting and developing.

I don’t want to mis up different problems.

Its OK to trade for what you need.  But you also have to fix the draft and develop problem.

Personally I don’t see Dombrowski as an issue because he is clearly good at winning.   And he has a ton of experience.  So I have to believe he (as much as a anyone) is smart enough to see what else might need to change.

Ok, now enter Arte and his unwillingness to add the payroll needed to get us those two bad ass starters.  Adams, Marsh and Canning probably aren’t getting us a cost controlled Ace.  

[Angel Oracle]

Just sign Bauer for 2021, and suck it up for one year on the luxury tax threshold.   Pujols comes off payroll after that, and Upton the year after that.

[Hubs]

On 9/3/2020 at 1:09 PM, Vlad27Trout27 said:

• Sign Bauer. [5 yrs 105 mil] auuming
•  sign either Bruce or Pederson (which ever is cheaper) to platnoon in the of, and 1st.
• Sign Ray/Minor [1yr 10 mil]
• either bring simmons back or La Stella
• Sign Kluber and Sanchez to a minor league deal
• hit the jackpot in the next draft and all the guys to devlop. 

Bauer might get 3/105. He’s going to get more than 21/yr. I doubt he will stick to his one year commitment strategy, when faced with free agency, a pandemic, and a new CBA on the horizon. He’s all about numbers. He’ll see that a longer term deal gives him the best chance to make money, and it will be some weird deal with options and such.

Jay Bruce is still playing? With two minor league OF ready in Adell and Upton, plus Maddon obviously believes in Ward, and two of the highest paid players on your team, I doubt they go for another OF, and if they do, it’s gonna be a guy with good defense. Why would they trade Goodwin if they were going to sign his replacement? 

Ray and Minor are good options but I see them trading for a guy rather than signing a mid tier guy. They likely want to acquire someone who they can control for 2021 and 22, but not a long term guy. Otherwise they go into 2022 with three free agents in their rotation.

I agree Simmons or La Stella, not both.

If you mean Aaron Sanchez, he may be available on a minor league deal. Kluber will not. 

Maybe Rocker debuts by the end of 2021, but no one else will be able to be a major league contributor in a year and half from the 2021 draft. And that’s doubtful.

They also need to address their terrible pen, and the catching position 

 

[Inside Pitch]

Sign a front end pitcher.   Sign a back end RP.   Sign a LH 1B type.    Play defense.    Look for trades but avoid disrupting the pipeline.

[Angels 1961]

Bauer wants to start every 4th day so let him. Wants 1 year deal that's great also. So pitching him every 4th day you would really be getting great value for your money.

[Pancake Bear]

I don't see Arte being enamored with Bauer. Just doesn't seem like his type of guy. Doesn't mean we won't pursue him, obviously, but I doubt we go all in.

Personally, I like Bauer and think he'd be a great addition. Who knows, though, what kind of deal he'll end up with after insisting for a while now he's only signing one year deals.

As to the notion that Eppler should just rebuild: If you do that, you have to trade Trout. That isn't even necessarily feasible. Also, at this point it seems clear that it's Arte who's driving whether we rebuild or keep going for it. So unless you want to start a bunch of "Arte, sell the team" threads, maybe quit blaming the GM for his approach.

 

[Warfarin]

5 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

I really don’t know why people are so afraid of Dave Dombrowski.

Lets get real.  In about 20 years he won four pennants and two World Series.

The Angels have won ONE fucking WS in almost 60 years.

I can hardly get on board with being afraid of a GM that would (shaking in my boots) try to win a WS but could potentially disrupt this magical run of 60 years we have had.

If we had a pretty strong farm but were a few MLB pieces away, Dombrowski wouldn't be a bad hire, because he's shown he will aggressively pursue a title for a team that's close.  My concern, though, is our farm is rather weak and we already have a number of large contracts on our club.

I think we need a GM / prez of baseball operations that can find value in undervalued players and help find good players on the cheap, since there won't be a lot of money to spend moving forward.  That's why, IMO, we are better suited to have a Rays-type GM leading this team right now.

Well, that and it's neat to see these franchises who can build winners today while maintaining a very strong farm system/pipeline.

[Warfarin]

3 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Just sign Bauer for 2021, and suck it up for one year on the luxury tax threshold.   Pujols comes off payroll after that, and Upton the year after that.

If only, but I don't think Arte will do that, unfortunately.