Thank you, Mr. President!

[m0nkey]

1 hour ago, Franklin Bluth said:

You missed my point, strad. I called it a "strawman" because it's an extreme view that nobody here (except Rico) believes, yet it's become the talking point that everyone continues debating against.

It would be like someone running in and yelling, "I eat puppies, and you should too!" and 25% of the posts in the thread are devoted to arguing against that point.

 

No offense, Rico.

In before something about Koreans 

[Tank]

3 hours ago, Rico said:

I'm just here saying we wouldn't be in this situation if more people cared about what was happening to black lives. 

This is the first thing you've said in the last ten days that I agree with.

[Tank]

3 hours ago, Randy Gradishar said:

Also, isn't the consensus that most of the looting and violence is coming from white supremacists trying to make the protestors look bad, or just people watching the world burn? Why is that being ignored?

this might be true in rhode island and wyoming, but from what i've seen on tv, it's not remotely true in LA, NY, or pretty much everywhere else. it's been overwhelming young people of color (not exclusively, but an absolute clear majority).

[Tank]

1 minute ago, calscuf said:

See, I look at those stats and the larger picture and understand, “wow, cops are out of control.”  Not “geez, cops like to kill black people.”

The sad moral of those stats was: the less interactions you have with cops, the less likely they are to murder you.  The more you put yourself in situations where you are going to interact with a cop, the more likely you are to die.  So, if you are committing more crimes, the more cop time you get and the more dead you get.  Cops kill everyone. Black people commit more crimes, per capita, than other groups.  So they have more interactions with cops and get dead more.

Plus, there is a learned bias amongst cops (call it racism if you want) to assume your average black guy is a criminal. That isn’t fair, but Vegas would give that cop pretty good odds that he’s correct.  

And how can that “racism” be changed?  It starts in the black community.  It starts by having children with fathers.  It starts by not blaming everyone else for your problems.  It starts by not asking for money because ‘maybe’ a relative was a slave 160 years ago. It’s starts by prioritizing things which will bring the culture up and not down.  And some responsibility for your own actions should be number 1 on that list.

[angelinkc]

51 minutes ago, calscuf said:

See, I look at those stats and the larger picture and understand, “wow, cops are out of control.”  Not “geez, cops like to kill black people.”

The sad moral of those stats was: the less interactions you have with cops, the less likely they are to murder you.  The more you put yourself in situations where you are going to interact with a cop, the more likely you are to die.  So, if you are committing more crimes, the more cop time you get and the more dead you get.  Cops kill everyone. Black people commit more crimes, per capita, than other groups.  So they have more interactions with cops and get dead more.

Plus, there is a learned bias amongst cops (call it racism if you want) to assume your average black guy is a criminal. That isn’t fair, but Vegas would give that cop pretty good odds that he’s correct.  

And how can that “racism” be changed?  It starts in the black community.  It starts by having children with fathers.  It starts by not blaming everyone else for your problems.  It starts by not asking for money because ‘maybe’ a relative was a slave 160 years ago. It’s starts by prioritizing things which will bring the culture up and not down.  And some responsibility for your own actions should be number 1 on that list.

I was just thinking the same thing.

[angelinkc]

42 minutes ago, Randy Gradishar said:

The thing is, the stats account for that variable. They say that assuming there is police interaction i.e. crime, blacks are more likely to become a victim. Those numbers have nothing to do with the fact that they potentially commit more crime.

And the one thing the stats can't tell you is whether blacks actually commit more crime per capita or if those numbers are skewed by police bias e.g. Andre. They probably do, but the reasons for that are a whole other topic.

But the "average" black guy being a criminal is an extreme stretch, unless you're including "California stops" and scaffolding violations.

Look at he violent crimes. Keep in mind the white column includes hispanics. Close to 80% percent of the population and the black is only 13%. I still believe we judge everyone individually but you can understand why some cops may treat them differently.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

[Lou]

9 hours ago, Rico said:

Your posts have been 90% "fuck looters", and 10% "murder is bad too I guess."

And yours have been 100% "all cops are evil" and 0% "beating and murdering cops is bad"

It's disgusting.

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, Randy Gradishar said:

I think everyone knows beating and murdering cops is bad, but saying that at this time is focusing on the wrong thing, and makes one part of the problem, unless you follow it with a "but".

It's all about where you put the "but".

So speaking out against the attacks on law enforcement is part of the problem?

Yeah, I'm going to disagree on that.

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, Randy Gradishar said:

If that's all you say, then yes, incontrovertibly. It's like trying to solve Covid by sending everyone cough drops.

Unlike jump-to-conclusions Benny over here, I put every death from these protests at the feet of Trump. Has he said one thing about what he's doing to address the problem, other than murdering more innocent civilians?

Go ahead and add these to his 50k Covid deaths.

Nobody is saying to speak out about it exclusively.  Doing so 0% of the time, while painting all LE as criminal, is pathetic.

Blaming Trump for all of this is also pathetic, as well as extremely ignorant.

[Jason]

10 hours ago, calscuf said:

See, I look at those stats and the larger picture and understand, “wow, cops are out of control.”  Not “geez, cops like to kill black people.”

The sad moral of those stats was: the less interactions you have with cops, the less likely they are to murder you.  The more you put yourself in situations where you are going to interact with a cop, the more likely you are to die.  So, if you are committing more crimes, the more cop time you get and the more dead you get.  Cops kill everyone. Black people commit more crimes, per capita, than other groups.  So they have more interactions with cops and get dead more.

Plus, there is a learned bias amongst cops (call it racism if you want) to assume your average black guy is a criminal. That isn’t fair, but Vegas would give that cop pretty good odds that he’s correct.  

And how can that “racism” be changed?  It starts in the black community.  It starts by having children with fathers.  It starts by not blaming everyone else for your problems.  It starts by not asking for money because ‘maybe’ a relative was a slave 160 years ago. It’s starts by prioritizing things which will bring the culture up and not down.  And some responsibility for your own actions should be number 1 on that list.

I like serious Cals better. In regards to the last paragraph, I had the exact same conversation with someone the other day. Guess what they called me? 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Jason

[Tank]

8 minutes ago, Randy Gradishar said:

Unlike jump-to-conclusions Benny over here, I put every death from these protests at the feet of Trump. Has he said one thing about what he's doing to address the problem, other than murdering more innocent civilians?

dude, that's quite a leap.

it's like connecting veganism and BLM.

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Randy Gradishar said:

If that's all you say, then yes, incontrovertibly. It's like trying to solve Covid by sending everyone cough drops.

Unlike jump-to-conclusions Benny over here, I put every death from these protests at the feet of Trump. Has he said one thing about what he's doing to address the problem, other than murdering more innocent civilians?

Go ahead and add these to his 50k Covid deaths.

It must be very easy to live where the entire world is a victim to one individual.  Imagine how amazing it must be to live devoid of personal accountability.  Hell the murdering cop, he must feel like a million bucks because it is Trump’s fault.  The murdering thugs that killed cops in the aftermath, not their fault, just Trump’s fault.  

I have no idea if you have kids, but I would assume if your kids ever acted out and did anything bad in their life, from not turning in school work, to doing drugs, to theft, or cheating on their spouse, you took full blame, right, since you were in charge of them.  Or would that also be presidents fault.  

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

It must be very easy to live where the entire world is a victim to one individual.  Imagine how amazing it must be to live devoid of personal accountability.  Hell the murdering cop, he must feel like a million bucks because it is Trump’s fault.  The murdering thugs that killed cops in the aftermath, not their fault, just Trump’s fault.  

I have no idea if you have kids, but I would assume if your kids ever acted out and did anything bad in their life, from not turning in school work, to doing drugs, to theft, or cheating on their spouse, you took full blame, right, since you were in charge of them.  Or would that also be presidents fault.  

The victim mentality works well for many people 

[Tank]

Just now, Randy Gradishar said:

Agreed on the first part.

And let's say 80% of the deaths on Trump. There would still be protests, but be makes it much worse.

Maybe there's nothing he can do about it, because no one would listen to him with his track record. But that track record's on him too. 

this is not about trump. the police officers who killed george floyd did not stand up and say "take THAT!" then put on a MAGA hat. they didn't proclaim their allegiance to him or do anything to support your idea that it's inherently his fault. reminder - this has been happening for far longer than trump has been in office.

and as i said in another thread, trump is caught in a catch-22: people want him to speak up about all of this, but then nobody believes or likes what he has to say. he is not going to be the person that will calm the angry crowd on this issue.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Randy Gradishar said:

Let's just say systemic racism then, which he is not helping (and possibly making worse).

People choose to be cops and assume the risk. People don't choose to be black.

The murder of German soldiers is bad, but does that mean we should have stayed out of WW2? 

So it isn’t Trump’s fault, got it.  You could have saved yourself a lot of time and energy and replied back with, “I was wrong”

[Lou]

5 minutes ago, Randy Gradishar said:

Let's just say systemic racism then, which he is not helping (and possibly making worse).

People choose to be cops and assume the risk. People don't choose to be black.

The murder of German soldiers is bad, but does that mean we should have stayed out of WW2? 

The 2 LE personnel that were murdered were black. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Lou said:

The 2 LE personnel that were murdered were black. 

But they were murdered by a white man, well an orange man.

[Jason]

6 minutes ago, Randy Gradishar said:

Let's just say systemic racism then, which he is not helping (and possibly making worse).

People choose to be cops and assume the risk. People don't choose to be black.

The murder of German soldiers is bad, but does that mean we should have stayed out of WW2? 

Wrong

[Lou]

14 minutes ago, Tank said:

dude, that's quite a leap.

it's like connecting veganism and BLM.

Randy Gradishar.

 

Buckeye.

[Redondo]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

The 2 LE personnel that were murdered were black. 

Yes they were.

Somehow that's not important.

Their lives are important also.

Doesn't fit their narrative.

[Tank]

Hi Randy!

[Tank]

2 minutes ago, Randy Gradishar said:

And I said as much.

you posted while i was typing so i hadn't seen it yet.

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

Hi Randy!

I forgot about her

[Lou]

Talcum X Matters 

[Jason]

1 minute ago, Randy Gradishar said:

I will say I want these protests, especially the violence, to end as much as anyone.

I just don't want them to seemingly fizzle out with no progress like the last few, and just set up an even worse situation 5 years down the road. I want them to end because something is being done.

Wasn't it 11 days of riots that led to the Civil Rights Act?

IMO this whole thing is less about racism and is more about statism.