Angels sign Julio Teheran (1 year, $9 million)

[Mark PT]

31 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Eppler did some things right, but five losing seasons shows that he’s not the guy to get them back to post-season baseball while keeping a solid farm.

Dont you think its still hard to judge while Pujols' contract is still on the books. It seems to me that Arte is the one at fault here. One hamstrung contract after another.

[Mark PT]

10 minutes ago, DMVol said:

I have, somewhat reluctantly, come to that conclusion also. Some on here disagree but I’d be fine with Dombrowski.  

at least with this guy, if he fails, we can do alot with his name.

[Inside Pitch]

17 minutes ago, DMVol said:

I have, somewhat reluctantly, come to that conclusion also. Some on here disagree but I’d be fine with Dombrowski.  

People here are too quick to shit on Dombrowski.  Dude was an amazing system builder.  Wasn't until he was given the mandate to win now that he punted the future to try to make an old man's dream of winning a WS a reality..    A lot of baseball people are throwing props at the Tigers for how far they have come towards turning things around... Those are pretty much all of Dombrowski's people including his RH man since his Marlins days -- Al Avila.

It's also worth reminding people that he worked under Stoneman and was his hand picked choice to be the GM of the Expos when they were both there.

[jsnpritchett]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

DFA time for Terribleheran

Sandoval looked solid for the most part over his past two 3-4 inning outings, let him make that one start.

What's the point in DFA'ing someone in the last week of the season?  Sandoval is already on the roster, so he can just make the start if that's the plan.  Might as well keep Julio around at this point, just in case you need someone to absorb some innings in a blowout.

[AngelsFaninGA]

On 12/19/2019 at 2:55 PM, AngelsFaninGA said:

3.67 career ERA, 30+ starts each of the last 7 years. I was actually hoping we'd sign him for multiple years

Nailed it. I agree

[Angel Oracle]

49 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

People here are too quick to shit on Dombrowski.  Dude was an amazing system builder.  Wasn't until he was given the mandate to win now that he punted the future to try to make an old man's dream of winning a WS a reality..    A lot of baseball people are throwing props at the Tigers for how far they have come towards turning things around... Those are pretty much all of Dombrowski's people including his RH man since his Marlins days -- Al Avila.

It's also worth reminding people that he worked under Stoneman and was his hand picked choice to be the GM of the Expos when they were both there.

Except that Dombrowski was replaced by Avila 5 years ago.   Thus, wouldn’t it pretty much have been Avila who built their farm?

[Inside Pitch]

13 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Except that Dombrowski was replaced by Avila 5 years ago.   Thus, wouldn’t it pretty much have been Avila who built their farm?

Same scouting dept, Avila has gone on record on MLB Radio saying as much.  He credited the continuity they had when he took over as having been vital to their long term success.    IMO he deserves credit for not having wanted to change everything just to lay claim to it as his own ala what happened here in 2012.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

People here are too quick to shit on Dombrowski.  Dude was an amazing system builder.  Wasn't until he was given the mandate to win now that he punted the future to try to make an old man's dream of winning a WS a reality..    A lot of baseball people are throwing props at the Tigers for how far they have come towards turning things around... Those are pretty much all of Dombrowski's people including his RH man since his Marlins days -- Al Avila.

It's also worth reminding people that he worked under Stoneman and was his hand picked choice to be the GM of the Expos when they were both there.

I was a hard no on Dombrowski till I read this and went back through his bio.  You'e, once again, provided me with an education in remembering to consider the body of work as opposed to the last thing I remember.  

Which further reminds me that no matter what the Angels do this off season in regard to Eppler, if the team is going to be successful over the next few years, it will be on the foundation of what Billy has built.  Granted, sometimes it takes someone else to come in and use what another has given you to put all the pieces together.  Or find those missing pieces that others are seeing.  Maybe Dobrowski is that guy.  

Regardless of whether they keep Eppler, it seems that bringing in someone who can take a 30,000 foot view from above would be helpful.  Someone with experience who can determine what's missing.  As opposed to a fledgling GM who is looking to establish their own infrastructure and start all over.  

My opinion at this point is that we don't have the luxury of time to bring in someone new to the game and let them cut their teeth.  It needs to be someone expensive with a track record for success who can make some important moves that bring it all together.  

I truly believe that Eppler has done most of the heavy lifting.  Or at least enough of it relative to the resources he's had available.  But it could be that top down piece that's missing as opposed to someone who is gonna want to start from the ground up.  

[Erstad Grit]

3 hours ago, DMVol said:

Harvey, Cahill, Allen and Teheran for 40 million...Yikes....

This has been my point. Overpaying for a guy like Corbin far out-ways moves like these. The dumpster dive approach might work for a bullpen but not a playoff bound rotation. 

[DMVol]

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

People here are too quick to shit on Dombrowski.  Dude was an amazing system builder.  Wasn't until he was given the mandate to win now that he punted the future to try to make an old man's dream of winning a WS a reality..    A lot of baseball people are throwing props at the Tigers for how far they have come towards turning things around... Those are pretty much all of Dombrowski's people including his RH man since his Marlins days -- Al Avila.

It's also worth reminding people that he worked under Stoneman and was his hand picked choice to be the GM of the Expos when they were both there.

My concern is that he’ll get another win now mandate from Arte...I’m not sure I have enough patience either but maybe it’s time for me and Arte to admit win now rarely works....not necessarily a blow it up rebuild but good scouting (including Latin America), development and drafting and approach FA signings differently....less short term high risk guys...easier said than done of course but maybe a good “medium“ risk FA, with good evaluating—-Lance Lynn, Mike Minor types...

[Angel Oracle]

I’m just asking that they finish over .500 next season.   End the under .500 streak, and go from there.

[Stradling]

10 hours ago, DMVol said:

Harvey, Cahill, Allen and Teheran for 40 million...Yikes....

Still better than Dipoto.  Albert and Josh, $375 million. 

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, DMVol said:

My concern is that he’ll get another win now mandate from Arte...I’m not sure I have enough patience either but maybe it’s time for me and Arte to admit win now rarely works...

This is a legit concern

[Docwaukee]

5 hours ago, DMVol said:

My concern is that he’ll get another win now mandate from Arte...I’m not sure I have enough patience either but maybe it’s time for me and Arte to admit win now rarely works....not necessarily a blow it up rebuild but good scouting (including Latin America), development and drafting and approach FA signings differently....less short term high risk guys...easier said than done of course but maybe a good “medium“ risk FA, with good evaluating—-Lance Lynn, Mike Minor types...

I think they've been trying to provide good scouting, development and drafting.  There's a ton of risk in the FA market for pitchers on any deal over a year.  For every Lance Lynn or Mike Minor, there are 10-20 other guys who were terrible or at best, not very good.  

I'm not saying they shouldn't go there, because at some point, I think you probably have to.  And to me that plays into what they need to do going forward which is win now.  Or at least set yourself up to win for the next 4-5 years.  You can't wait for Trout to turn 32 and Rendon 33 before you start putting together a winning team so in essence, you sorta have to win now.  You've probably got one more year for the youngsters to develop and for Albert to come off the books but by 2022, you've got to put the pedal to the metal.  Which means you're going to have to figure out how the hell you're going to get a front line starter.  And on top of it, if you're going to keep a huge chunk of your existing rotation intact in Bundy and Heaney, it's gonna cost you whatever money is coming off the books for Pujols and Upton without even dipping into the free agent market.  

So it's Arte spends more - which I just don't think will happen.  Maybe there's enough to grab one of those middling starters to help the rotation but certainly not enough to get a front line guy and it probably means that Simmons is gone which would be a big mistake in my opinion.  

Or it's time to start moving prospects for major league players.  With the lost year of development, they'll need 2021 to recoup some stagnant value of what is a system with a large concentration of future talent in the lower level.  

Bottom line is that 2021 can be a transitional year but you've got to open that window in 2022.  And we've all got to hope and pray that the farm system takes a solid step forward next year.  

[Docwaukee]

And what I've said above maybe plays into why they called up Adell now.  To not only determine if he's ready, but to determine how long it's going to take him to be.  And they've got their answer.  He's probably 2 years away.  At least.  Which is potentially fine if you can wait that long, but I don't think they can.  Hopefully he didn't decrease his trade value and teams that can wait for him to develop have that club controlled starter they are willing to give up.  

I think an ideal candidate would be German Marquez.  He's controlled for 4 more years after this one at a reasonable amount and he's very good away from Rockies park.  He might not be a traditional #1 right now, but I think he has the chance to front a rotation for his age 26-29 yo seasons.  

I would trade Adell for him right now.  

[Stradling]

In free agency for every Mike Minor (2019) there’s a Mike Minor (2020). 

[DMVol]

10 hours ago, Stradling said:

Still better than Dipoto.  Albert and Josh, $375 million. 

True, and they were all one year deals, rather than 10 or 5....I just wonder if there isn't a "middle ground" somewhere between the huge deals (Albert, Hamilton) and one year high risk guys like the 3 pitchers from 2019....I mentioned Lynn and Minor because they seem like a compromise of sorts between the two extremes.....I know there are lots of examples of bad signings of FA's (not just pitchers but maybe they are a little more risky)....and not just with the Angels...short term, long term and everywhere in between....I just hope a new GM (if we go that route) can do better than Valbuena, Cozart, Harvey, Allen, Cahill and Teheran....that isn't a good track record....

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, DMVol said:

True, and they were all one year deals, rather than 10 or 5....I just wonder if there isn't a "middle ground" somewhere between the huge deals (Albert, Hamilton) and one year high risk guys like the 3 pitchers from 2019....I mentioned Lynn and Minor because they seem like a compromise of sorts between the two extremes.....I know there are lots of examples of bad signings of FA's (not just pitchers but maybe they are a little more risky)....and not just with the Angels...short term, long term and everywhere in between....I just hope a new GM (if we go that route) can do better than Valbuena, Cozart, Harvey, Allen, Cahill and Teheran....that isn't a good track record....

I agree there needs to be a middle ground but is Mike Minor considered good or bad?  I’m sure on RangersWin they loved Minor in 2019 and felt like it was a steal of a deal.  Then this year he’d be our worst starter, outside of Teheran, he’s got about the same ERA as the Angels version of Cahill which is slightly better than Harvey.

[DMVol]

39 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I agree there needs to be a middle ground but is Mike Minor considered good or bad?  I’m sure on RangersWin they loved Minor in 2019 and felt like it was a steal of a deal.  Then this year he’d be our worst starter, outside of Teheran, he’s got about the same ERA as the Angels version of Cahill which is slightly better than Harvey.

He was ok (not great) in 2018 in year one of his deal....better in 2019, very solid year.....so two out of the three contract years, I'd take in a heartbeat....that would be a lot better than what we've gotten from most of Eppler's signings....But, it's not easy for sure....Eppler has had to walk a fine line of trying to compete without long term commitments....maybe the solution is to focus more on trades, as some have said...not sure....one thing I feel pretty sure about, if we make a change, I don't want to go with a young, unproven guy again....I know that probably sounds silly (get the best guy, period) but we've tried Reagins, DiPoto and Eppler and here we are....it's why Dombrowski has some appeal to me....

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

He was ok (not great) in 2018 in year one of his deal....better in 2019, very solid year.....so two out of the three contract years, I'd take in a heartbeat....that would be a lot better than what we've gotten from most of Eppler's signings....But, it's not easy for sure....Eppler has had to walk a fine line of trying to compete without long term commitments....maybe the solution is to focus more on trades, as some have said...not sure....one thing I feel pretty sure about, if we make a change, I don't want to go with a young, unproven guy again....I know that probably sounds silly (get the best guy, period) but we've tried Reagins, DiPoto and Eppler and here we are....it's why Dombrowski has some appeal to me....

Yea, for some reason I thought it was just a two year deal for Minor, last year and this year.  Lynn is the guy I wanted and thought 3 years and $30 million was a good deal for him.  For every Lynn there is an Alex Cobb.  

[Erstad Grit]

Everyone excited about Quintana don't forget this 

[mmc]

Ok I won't

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Everyone excited about Quintana don't forget this 

yeah.  It's not like a different GM signed a different guy.  How could this be different.  

IT'S ONE YEAR SO IT'S THE SAME!!!

[tdawg87]

8 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Everyone excited about Quintana don't forget this 

Dumb.

[Taylor]

8 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Everyone excited about Quintana don't forget this