Plan B: What do you think the best option for the Angels is now?

[Angels_Fan]

Just now, Second Base said:

Wins above replacement is non-linear. Meaning 6 wins, isn't the same at 3B as it is on the mound.

Wins are wins, and if the Angels can improve 4 wins at 3B, it still counts in the standings. 
 

What’s the alternative? 

[Chuck]

Just now, Angels_Fan said:

Wins are wins, and if the Angels can improve 4 wins at 3B, it still counts in the standings. 
 

What’s the alternative? 

I agree with this. This is why I'm not only interested in Rendon, but even looking at Contreras in addition to Ryu & a trade for an arm. 

To me Maldonado or Castro only worked if we went ALL in on pitching which included Cole and someone else like Wheeler or Ryu.

[floplag]

3 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I agree with this. This is why I'm not only interested in Rendon, but even looking at Contreras in addition to Ryu & a trade for an arm. 

To me Maldonado or Castro only worked if we went ALL in on pitching which included Cole and someone else like Wheeler or Ryu.

Bingo, 100% with you on this one Chuck.  Its the only logical path at this point. 
IF we got lets say Madbum, Ryu, Rendon, and Contreras, were in the post with a shot... what else can you ask for?

[Second Base]

6 minutes ago, Angels_Fan said:

Wins are wins, and if the Angels can improve 4 wins at 3B, it still counts in the standings. 
 

What’s the alternative? 

WAR attempts to standardize the value of a win between position players and pitchers, but unfortunately there are always situational discrepancies. 

Case in point, let's say you sign a 6 win pitcher, who is replacing a -2 win pitcher. You've effectively added 8 wins to your total despite the pitcher himself only being with 6. Or if you add a 6 win 3B that it's a 2 win player on the bench. Despite that player assessing as being with 6 wins, he's really only worth 4. 

[Second Base]

9 minutes ago, Angels_Fan said:

Wins are wins, and if the Angels can improve 4 wins at 3B, it still counts in the standings. 
 

What’s the alternative? 

And I think the alternative here is to distribute the wins where there are roster deficiencies. No denying Rendon is a great player, but we can all agree the Angels are pitching deficient. 

I know it's common and popular to say wins are created equal and it all comes down to run differential, but those are still imperfect measurements. 

I can't recall the last time a team won the world series that was extremely strong in one area and completely deficient in another. Teams need to be balanced. 

[T.G.]

Opportunity to buy low on Blake Snell?

Anyone?

[CanadianHalo]

 

Ryu’s innings pitched by year...

Why do people want him? There is no reason to believe this guy can stay healthy and we have enough injury problems as is

[Bronson]

3 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Opportunity to buy low on Blake Snell?

Anyone?

It won’t be that low. 

[Second Base]

3 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Opportunity to buy low on Blake Snell?

Anyone?

Only if it costs slap-dick prospects.

[Angels_Fan]

5 minutes ago, Second Base said:

WAR attempts to standardize the value of a win between position players and pitchers, but unfortunately there are always situational discrepancies. 

Case in point, let's say you sign a 6 win pitcher, who is replacing a -2 win pitcher. You've effectively added 8 wins to your total despite the pitcher himself only being with 6. Or if you add a 6 win 3B that it's a 2 win player on the bench. Despite that player assessing as being with 6 wins, he's really only worth 4

So if the Angels can improve 4 wins at 3B, you would pass on Rendon just because starting pitching is more of a need? The Angels need all the wins they can find at this point. The Cole ship has sailed already. Now the Angels need a Rendon in addition to two starting pitchers a la Ryu and Darvish if they want to be legit contenders.

[Kendo36]

Costs are obviously inflated in this market. No "bargains" to be had. Angels lost 90 games and will have to overpay to get any free agent. We are in a rough rough spot. That's why you had to win the Cole sweepstakes. Now you have to over pay for far lesser talent. Goodluck outbidding the dodgers and rangers for rendon. 

[Second Base]

Just now, Angels_Fan said:

So if the Angels can improve 4 wins at 3B, you would pass on Rendon just because starting pitching is more of a need? The Angels need all the wins they can find at this point. The Cole ship has sailed already. Now the Angels need a Rendon in addition to two starting pitchers a la Ryu and Darvish if they want to be legit contenders.

Saying that is like me saying you don't care about pitching at all. It's not a fair characterization of you, and yours isn't a fair characterization of me.

Again, not all wins are created equal. 

I will say that if after the rotation is filled with quality top and mid-tier starters, and I has money left over, of course I would acquire a 3B. But within a world of finite resources, that just isn't happening.

I'm totally fine with 3B belonging to Fletcher, La Stella and Thaiss if it means Ryu and Darvish in the rotation. I would not be nearly as ok with Rendon at 3B and either La Stella or Fletcher on the bench (no manager is willing to plant Albert on the pine unfortunately), offering no value, and a rotation without any clear ace or every mid rotation starters.

[Angels_Fan]

4 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Saying that is like me saying you don't care about pitching at all. It's not a fair characterization of you, and yours isn't a fair characterization of me.

Again, not all wins are created equal. 

I will say that if after the rotation is filled with quality top and mid-tier starters, and I has money left over, of course I would acquire a 3B. But within a world of finite resources, that just isn't happening.

I'm totally fine with 3B belonging to Fletcher, La Stella and Thaiss if it means Ryu and Darvish in the rotation. I would not be nearly as ok with Rendon at 3B and either La Stella or Fletcher on the bench (no manager is willing to plant Albert on the pine unfortunately), offering no value, and a rotation without any clear ace or every mid rotation starters.

The goal should be to make the postseason, and I’m sure that’s Arte’s goal also. Trout won’t forever be in his prime. Ryu and Darvish alone won’t be enough. Rendon, Ryu and Darvish would give the Angels a chance. 

[VariousCrap]

I'm not sure why anyone thinks the Cubs will trade Darvish.  With the way he pitched the second half of last year and how his contract is considered "a bargain" when compared to what pitchers are getting this off-season, the Cubs have zero reason to trade him.

https://sports.yahoo.com/yu-darvishs-bargain-contract-cubs-222105830.html

As for Contreras, the Cubs asking price is supposedly very very high.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/cubs/padres-connected-willson-contreras-asking-price-absurd

[Glen]

11 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Saying that is like me saying you don't care about pitching at all. It's not a fair characterization of you, and yours isn't a fair characterization of me.

Again, not all wins are created equal. 

I will say that if after the rotation is filled with quality top and mid-tier starters, and I has money left over, of course I would acquire a 3B. But within a world of finite resources, that just isn't happening.

I'm totally fine with 3B belonging to Fletcher, La Stella and Thaiss if it means Ryu and Darvish in the rotation. I would not be nearly as ok with Rendon at 3B and either La Stella or Fletcher on the bench (no manager is willing to plant Albert on the pine unfortunately), offering no value, and a rotation without any clear ace or every mid rotation starters.

The thing is, we don't know what we'll get from La Stella. He was having a career year with a juiced ball and then he got injured. I like him a lot but I don't think we should expect much above his career norms. If getting Rendon's career norms puts La Stella on the bench that's a big improvement.

[Second Base]

2 minutes ago, Glen said:

The thing is, we don't know what we'll get from La Stella. He was having a career year with a juiced ball and then he got injured. I like him a lot but I don't think we should expect much above his career norms. If getting Rendon's career norms puts La Stella on the bench that's a big improvement.

And while that is a good point, I think it's fair to expect boosts in production from Upton, Simmons, Ohtani and Trout all being healthy, and the further development of promising younger players like Fletcher, Rengifo and Thaiss. 

Even if Tommy isn't the all-star he was last year, he has always been solid and the offense should be fairly decent without adding Rendon.

[Glen]

5 minutes ago, Second Base said:

And while that is a good point, I think it's fair to expect boosts in production from Upton, Simmons, Ohtani and Trout all being healthy, and the further development of promising younger players like Fletcher, Rengifo and Thaiss. 

Even if Tommy isn't the all-star he was last year, he has always been solid and the offense should be fairly decent without adding Rendon.

He hit more HR last year in 80 games than he had hit in over 900 games before that. I get what you're saying and I know Rendon will be a huge overpay, too. There are no easy answers.

[Tank]

10 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Someone has to try to cheer this place up.

(People say im the life of the part cuz i tell a joke or two,

But although im laughing loud and hardy, deep inside im blue)

Bam! Tied in the sad song thread AND the platoon thread all in this one!

i thought you were gonna go all 'some people call me the space cowboy, some people call me maurice.'

[Dtwncbad]

40 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Opportunity to buy low on Blake Snell?

Anyone?

Heck yeah

[mmc]

I wish Eppler's mom would've taken a Plan B.

[Second Base]

1 minute ago, Glen said:

He hit more HR last year in 80 games than he had hit in over 900 games before that. I get what you're saying and I know Rendon will be a huge overpay, too. There are no easy answers.

Rendon's numbers were also inflated by the juiced ball too. So expecting him to hit. 320 with 45 DB and 35 HR again is probably unreasonable. My guess is things return to normal for Rendon and he hits .290 with 40 DB and 25 HR.

And La Stella was on pace for .295 and 30+ HR's. I think there's a more than reasonable chance La Stella goes back to being more of a .280 and 20 HR type of hitter. The only reason I think some of the breakout was sustainable is because of three factors.

1. Everyday at bats.

2. Dramatically increased launch angle.

3. RF in Angel Stadium plays short, particularly with that incredibly stupid yellow line below the scoreboard.

[totdprods]

39 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

I'm not sure why anyone thinks the Cubs will trade Darvish.  With the way he pitched the second half of last year and how his contract is considered "a bargain" when compared to what pitchers are getting this off-season, the Cubs have zero reason to trade him.

https://sports.yahoo.com/yu-darvishs-bargain-contract-cubs-222105830.html

They need to move money and he’s the easiest big money contract they could move, in theory. 

It’d be pretty easy for the Cubs to shed some dollars right now and big-picture, acquire a few prospects along the way, be it with the Halos or whoever, make a shrewd short-term signing or two with frees up cash, and wait for the next winter where they can spend again. With a beloved rookie manager at the helm it’s a little easier for them to lower expectations and chalk up any struggles to Ross’ learning curve. 

Darvish might be very good next year still but by years three and four remaining the Cubs could be better served with him gone. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by totdprods

[hangin n wangin]

1 hour ago, True Grich said:

Opportunity to buy low on Blake Snell?

Anyone?

I would splooge all over the place. I love Blake Snell.

[VariousCrap]

Hahahaha....we have people actually trying to compare Rendon and LaStella????  Dear sweet Lord this place can be insane.

If getting Rendon means LaStella loses some playing time, who gives a shit?  You get Rendon.

[VariousCrap]

10 minutes ago, totdprods said:

They need to move money and he’s the easiest big money contract they could move, in theory. 

It’d be pretty easy for the Cubs to shed some dollars right now and big-picture, acquire a few prospects along the way, be it with the Halos or whoever, make a shrewd short-term signing or two with frees up cash, and wait for the next winter where they can spend again. With a beloved rookie manager at the helm it’s a little easier for them to lower expectations and chalk up any struggles to Ross’ learning curve. 

Darvish might be very good next year still but by years three and four remaining the Cubs could be better served with him gone. 

He isn't the money they are trying to move right now.  This seems like more of a fans idea than reality.