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Dylan Bundy to the Angels for Isaac Mattson, Zach Peek, Kyle Bradish, and Kyle Brnovich

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11 hours ago, tntoriole said:

hey....Orioles fan here....and a regular on the Orioles Hangout....  The general consensus is that Bundy is what Bundy is...a backend of the rotation and reliable innings eater.  He gives up too many HRs both in Camden and on the road but is fine for what he brings.  Of course, Mike Elias/Sig Mejdal are of the Houston rebuild mode....i.e.  sell any and all parts, etc.   So we fully expect another 100 plus loss season and maybe two, but are generally positive about the rebuild under the new regime (and that the Angelos sons are much more hands off than the old man who is ill and not involved in active franchise issues any longer).   We are hopeful to hit a lottery ticket with any of the four coming back, but most believe this is an OK, fair return (unlike the Villar to the Marlins recently which most feel was a true salary dump).       Don't be expecting any Arrieta like transformation, though....those days are long gone.   Braves fans said the same thing about Gausman...we knew better.  Same with Dylan.  He is what he is.    Dylan is an excellent character guy, very stoic despite having essentially to rebuild his career after surgery and his decline in velocity and many of us were  saddened by his injuries because when he was drafted, he was the top pitching prospect in the nation and his first year in the minors with 98 plus fastball and killer slider was really amazing. 

Anyway....we wish him all the best and that he has a fantastic year with you guys!!   

 

Welcome, and thanks for that feedback.  
We will of course be a little hyped but i think youve hit the nail pretty well.  We are about the only team that he is actually an upgrade to even if it is the back end which i dont think anyone is suggesting anything else realistically. 

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14 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Its fine, Kyle Bradish will be one of the most sought after free agents in 6 years and Bundy will be the next Joe Blanton. But look on the bright side, the Lakers are 19-3.

I don't think anyone can predict either outcome.  If the A's acquired Bundy instead of the Angels, there would probably be a large number of people on this forum criticizing Eppler and predicting a Cy Young year for Bundy, paying little attention to what prospects were sent to the Orioles.

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40 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Its fine, Kyle Bradish will be one of the most sought after free agents in 6 years and Bundy will be the next Joe Blanton. But look on the bright side, the Lakers are 19-3.

As a 22 year old in A+ ball, he put up a 4.28 ERA 1.416 WHIP...he has to make it to the MLB first.

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7 hours ago, Glen said:

That would mean our #2 pitcher is recovering from TJ surgery and pitching once a week, and our #3 starter has a career 4.44 ERA. Then Bundy slots in.

That's not good.

I agree. Bundy's acquisition is an interesting start, and certainly worthwhile to stabilize the back end of the rotation. But the Angels pitching issues weren't just in a lack of innings. It was the quality of innings too. The upside. Bundy addresses one part, not the other. They'll need a couple pitchers to address the other. 

If their goal is to win 85 games, then Bundy and Cole will suffice. 

 

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8 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

As a 22 year old in A+ ball, he put up a 4.28 ERA 1.416 WHIP...he has to make it to the MLB first.

This could very well be no different than if we essentially traded three Jake Jewells and a future Mike Morin to Cam Bedrosian to them. 

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7 hours ago, Dochalo said:

it's not just on Eppler.  I think people are making too much of Arte's comments about increasing payroll.  He will but even payout to Cole at 35m plus 5m for a catcher puts them at about 190m.  I wouldn't expect it to go any higher than that.  

It definitely would, but the reason my expectations are high is rooted in the concept that ultimately, winning a World Series is the goal. Eppler's job was to build a winner and rebuild the farm while maintaining a reasonable payroll for a mid to large market team. He's done the latter, but it's been 5 years and Eppler has failed to build a winning team which is his primary function in the front office.

Every GM has their failures, but the longer Eppler is in the GM seat, the more those failures have compounded. Maybin, Nava, Gentry, Giavotella, Harvey, Cahill, Doug White and Brad Ausmus..... Even the Upton deal is looking like it has become prohibitive.

He has to win at some point. And that point has come. 

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2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

This could very well be no different than if we essentially traded three Jake Jewells and a future Mike Morin to Cam Bedrosian to them. 

Yeah, it's a collection of arms...a bunch of potential traded for a talented question mark...it's balanced.

Of the guys traded, only Mattson was drafted earlier than 2018 (two were in 2018 and one in 2019).  From this we start to get an indication of what Eppler is using some of these post 3rd-round picks for...trading for potential middling assets like Bundy.  

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7 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Yeah, it's a collection of arms...a bunch of potential traded for a talented question mark...it's balanced.

Of the guys traded, only Mattson was drafted earlier than 2018 (two were in 2018 and one in 2019).  From this we start to get an indication of what Eppler is using some of these post 3rd-round picks for...trading for potential middling assets like Bundy.  

I really don't see much potential though. Mattson has good numbers but lacks projection. Bradish projects into the back of a rotation, that's about it though. The other two are about as typical as college starters get it seems. They'll more than likely remain starters until they reach AA, then either become middle relievers or depth fodder.

If I was Mike Elias....I don't think I would've accepted the offer. Arms are nice to have but you need quality. 

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4 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I really don't see much potential though. Mattson has good numbers but lacks projection. Bradish projects into the back of a rotation, that's about it though. The other two are about as typical as college starters get it seems. They'll more than likely remain starters until they reach AA, then either become middle relievers or depth fodder.

If I was Mike Elias....I don't think I would've accepted the offer. Arms are nice to have but you need quality. 

I believe Elias mentioned specifically that they’re almost as interested in adding quantity to the farm as they are quality. 

I mean, Eppler sort of did the same thing the last two years. He drafted a ridiculous number of pitchers just to give him a deep well to draw from for future trades. Elias is doing the same thing, trying to just add as much volume to the once-barren Baltimore farm as possible now. 

It could actually be argued that Eias’ Baltimore is taking a very Eppler-esque approach to their rebuild. They didn’t have much to sell and didn’t have much of a farm, in a strong division. They’ll be quick to claim talent and try to rebuild value on guys to flip them for anything they can, and having arms like these gives them other trade chips or lotto ticks to dream on.

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6 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I really don't see much potential though. Mattson has good numbers but lacks projection. Bradish projects into the back of a rotation, that's about it though. The other two are about as typical as college starters get it seems. They'll more than likely remain starters until they reach AA, then either become middle relievers or depth fodder.

If I was Mike Elias....I don't think I would've accepted the offer. Arms are nice to have but you need quality. 

I don't think there is much potential either but I think it was a trade of circumstance where the Orioles just wanted to get of the salary and probably couldn't get much better for him right now.

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1 hour ago, Second Base said:

It definitely would, but the reason my expectations are high is rooted in the concept that ultimately, winning a World Series is the goal. Eppler's job was to build a winner and rebuild the farm while maintaining a reasonable payroll for a mid to large market team. He's done the latter, but it's been 5 years and Eppler has failed to build a winning team which is his primary function in the front office.

Every GM has their failures, but the longer Eppler is in the GM seat, the more those failures have compounded. Maybin, Nava, Gentry, Giavotella, Harvey, Cahill, Doug White and Brad Ausmus..... Even the Upton deal is looking like it has become prohibitive.

He has to win at some point. And that point has come. 

Yes, true, but I think it is easy for us to forget how hard it is to be a major league GM. Actually, none of us has any clue, really. For one, it isn't done in a vacuum. It isn't like shopping at Costco, where everything is in stock and you just buy whatever you feel like. It is more like an auction with 29 other potential bidders (although usually only a handful of serious bidders). Furthermore, you might not know what anyone else is bidding. In the end, every GM has to put limits on what they'll spend.

Dialling back a month, it was fun saying "I'll take one of Cole, Wheeler, and Grandal"--which was my pipe-dream offseason haul--but it just doesn't work that way. If Eppler had equalled the Wheeler and Grandal offers, he'd have spent $42M AAV already.

But yeah, he pretty much "has to" get Cole--or at least Strasburg, or possibly Ryu and some other upgrade--to not turn 2020 into another "wait until the next yearyear."

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I don't think Eppler is going to miss a quartet of pitchers that were more likely to be Major League relievers than starters. Eppler has shown a propensity to pick up good relievers off of the waiver wire or through minor trades so this probably isn't a real loss in the organization's eyes. For the Orioles if even just one of those four turns into a Major League starter they will consider it a real win. Even if only a couple of them turn into Major League relievers they will consider it a win too, I would think.

That is why I like the trade for both sides, it met common needs on both ends.

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8 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yes, true, but I think it is easy for us to forget how hard it is to be a major league GM. Actually, none of us has any clue, really. For one, it isn't done in a vacuum. It isn't like shopping at Costco, where everything is in stock and you just buy whatever you feel like. It is more like an auction with 29 other potential bidders (although usually only a handful of serious bidders). Furthermore, you might not know what anyone else is bidding. In the end, every GM has to put limits on what they'll spend.

Dialling back a month, it was fun saying "I'll take one of Cole, Wheeler, and Grandal"--which was my pipe-dream offseason haul--but it just doesn't work that way. If Eppler had equalled the Wheeler and Grandal offers, he'd have spent $42M AAV already.

But yeah, he pretty much "has to" get Cole--or at least Strasburg, or possibly Ryu and some other upgrade--to not turn 2020 into another "wait until the next yearyear."

Yeah, but I have dominated in fantasy baseball!

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1 hour ago, Second Base said:

It definitely would, but the reason my expectations are high is rooted in the concept that ultimately, winning a World Series is the goal. Eppler's job was to build a winner and rebuild the farm while maintaining a reasonable payroll for a mid to large market team. He's done the latter, but it's been 5 years and Eppler has failed to build a winning team which is his primary function in the front office.

Every GM has their failures, but the longer Eppler is in the GM seat, the more those failures have compounded. Maybin, Nava, Gentry, Giavotella, Harvey, Cahill, Doug White and Brad Ausmus..... Even the Upton deal is looking like it has become prohibitive.

He has to win at some point. And that point has come. 

Floating through the gray zone again where a lot needs to go right for the team to win.  At least that's where I see us headed with this acquisition.  Only now he used prospect capital to get there.  Two players of which have no time in pro ball.  As mentioned, the likelihood of those guys being something isn't great but it's still less capital in your pocket than you had before.  

If he uses year to year payroll on those types of deals then fine.  Even if it's for 2-3 years at a reasonable rate then ok.  Gibson getting 3/30 is fine.  Is a Wade Miley type at a couple mil more this year and likely the same dollar amount as Bundy next year a downgrade in performance?  

Cole is different because he's a longer term play.  But they have to also decide what they want to be over the next couple years.   Why bother giving up prospects when you are skirting the margins of mediocrity?  

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12 hours ago, RBM said:

Best reply was “Some of those home runs he gave up left the country also...”

I am appalled that someone would make fun of a learning disability like this...

 

 

 

 

 

 

At least when I'm done laughing out loud, I might be appalled...

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43 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Floating through the gray zone again where a lot needs to go right for the team to win.  At least that's where I see us headed with this acquisition.  Only now he used prospect capital to get there.  Two players of which have no time in pro ball.  As mentioned, the likelihood of those guys being something isn't great but it's still less capital in your pocket than you had before.  

If he uses year to year payroll on those types of deals then fine.  Even if it's for 2-3 years at a reasonable rate then ok.  Gibson getting 3/30 is fine.  Is a Wade Miley type at a couple mil more this year and likely the same dollar amount as Bundy next year a downgrade in performance?  

Cole is different because he's a longer term play.  But they have to also decide what they want to be over the next couple years.   Why bother giving up prospects when you are skirting the margins of mediocrity?  

This very well may be the time he cashes in that Brandon Marsh trade chip he's kept in his back pocket these years.

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This trade is very sensible. The Angels starters mostly couldn't last half a game even. An inning eater with an ERA in the mid 4.00s who starts 25 times, goes 125 plus innings.  is certainly a positive. 

Back rotation pitchers are important in the long run. You need some steady, dependable arms to stretch the innings, rest the mid relievers and stay competitive into the last four innings. 

The Angels should have a better offense behind Bundy. More runs scored will let him eat more innings. 

Of course he has his flaws, but he is intended to play a certain role, not be the ace. He has enough experience, knowledge of the league and a very good k rate. What happened in Baltimore is also a reflection of the types of games he was in too, where he had to serve as as a de facto ace and carry more pressure.

A nice, modest move by Eppler. Not the blockbuster trade or signing, but a positive addition for the most glaring position of weakness.

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I hope Bundy turns a corner and improves in Anaheim. I was high on him three years ago and do like the guy, but he’s just been super average since then. Yes, he didn’t pitch in a good ball park, but he was still throwing too many hittable pitches. He has the stuff to be a solid pitcher, but I’m still expecting a 4+ ERA simply because I don’t think he’s a very smart pitcher. A 4 ERA is fine and useful as a depth starter but let’s see what else we do to improve the starting pitching.

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1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yes, true, but I think it is easy for us to forget how hard it is to be a major league GM. Actually, none of us has any clue, really. For one, it isn't done in a vacuum. It isn't like shopping at Costco, where everything is in stock and you just buy whatever you feel like. It is more like an auction with 29 other potential bidders (although usually only a handful of serious bidders). Furthermore, you might not know what anyone else is bidding. In the end, every GM has to put limits on what they'll spend.

Dialling back a month, it was fun saying "I'll take one of Cole, Wheeler, and Grandal"--which was my pipe-dream offseason haul--but it just doesn't work that way. If Eppler had equalled the Wheeler and Grandal offers, he'd have spent $42M AAV already.

But yeah, he pretty much "has to" get Cole--or at least Strasburg, or possibly Ryu and some other upgrade--to not turn 2020 into another "wait until the next yearyear."

There is a shopping list, but you're right in that it leaves out the very human element, that sometimes, it isn't about the money. We do know that Eppler recognizes talent when he sees it. The fact that the Angels were runner up on Eovaldi, Corbin and Morton last year speaks to this concept. We can explain away why each player choose each destination, but the bottom line is still the same. Eppler had failed to build a winner. He's had money to spend, he had Trout, Ohtani, Simmons and So-Cal and still he hasn't built a winner.

This is a hard job. That's why there's only 30 of them in the world. But that also means that if Billy can't do it, there's a lot of other candidates that are willing to step in and give it a shot.

Through circumstances that are mostly outside of his control, Eppler now had to build a winner, or get fired.

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18 hours ago, ScottT said:

I don't blame Orioles fans for being defeated instead of angry and cursing.  They've had a brutal couple of decades.   Fourteen seasons in a row under .500.   4th or 5th place in thirteen of those seasons.   At least 20 games out in thirteen of those seasons. 

Then, 2012...  93 wins... because they somehow won every close game.  They improved in 2013, but won 8 fewer games.    They were legitimately good in 2014, for the first time in 17 years.   They've had one winning season since, and the last three have been ugly.   

How does their farm system rank?   Did it move at all today?  I get the trade from their end, but yikes.   They fucking suck. 

Actually from 2012 through 2016 the Orioles won more games than any team in the AL.   Yes it was a long down period prior to that time, but, someone like me went to his first Orioles game in 1965  and was lucky enough to have many years where the Orioles were the best team in baseball and I have attended all five World Series that have been played in Baltimore (significantly more than some organizations, one might add).    But baseball runs in cycles and we are in a rebuild.  We believe that Mike Elias/Sig Mejdal have already made substantial progress in many areas including the hires of Koby Perez away from Cleveland to lead the international scouting division and the recent hire of Eve Rosenbaum from Houston as director of baseball development and Chris Holt last winter as organization pitching developmental director.    Elias was heavily involved in the drafting and scouting process both with St. Louis and Houston and the farm system has already made substantive progress....  Farm rankings are notoriously variable but a Fangraphs recent analysis had the Orioles system ranked 10th overall in MLB ( a substantial improvement from 2017 when it was 27th).   Picking number one Adley Rutschman helps with that but the pitching prospects at A and AA levels in our system have made marked improvement in the last year.     We will have the 2nd, 31st (competitive balance pick) and 40th picks in this year's draft and given the likelihood of being at the bottom again in 2020, we will likely again have high picks in the 2021 draft.   Look for the 2021 season to have us hit .500 and in 2022 to be at the top of the AL East and then in playoff competition for some years to come...(if the Houston type rebuild works as planned...lol).  

https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2019-in-season-prospect-list/farm-ranking?sort=-1,1&type=100

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11 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

Yep. If this is our big acquisition, this organization deserves what it gets.

That isn’t what he said. He said if this ‘if this is our second acquisition’. I don’t necessarily agree with him on that. If we get Cole and a catcher, I’ll wait it out and see how it goes. 

I do agree if we don’t get an impact pitcher, I’ll call for Eppler to be out. 

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