Best FA catchers still unsigned

[happybat4]

Fangraphs loves Martin. 55 career War. Borderline HOF 

[Warfarin]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

In the thread where I brought up trading for Ruiz, I mentioned Adams as possibly being the more appealing option for the Dodgers just because he is further away from the majors and they DO have a glut of OFers curently...   But that might be more of a down the road trade than anything right now.  Ruiz, Marsh, Adams -- they all need more time in the minors.

Friedman is pretty forward-thinking and has shown a tendency to be open to all possibilities.  Last offseason, he traded three key contributors to his 2018 team (Kemp, Puig, Wood) for, essentially, 2 single A prospects.  Fast-forward a year later, and those 2 single A prospects are now top 100 prospects.  I think Friedman would trade Ruiz for minor leaguers who are far away but have certain traits/characteristics he is searching for.  Maybe Adams, Jackson, etc.. not sure, but I'd be open to seeing if a deal could be struck.  I'd love to acquire an almost-ready catching prospect who we can slot in for many years.  Ruiz has an incredible hit tool.

[ukyah]

8 hours ago, happybat4 said:

Fangraphs loves Martin. 55 career War. Borderline HOF 

WTF?

russell martin, borderline HOF? get the fuck out of here with that. if fangraphs really says that, then it just gives more fuel to the WAR is a flawed stat fire.

[tdawg87]

33 minutes ago, ukyah said:

WTF?

russell martin, borderline HOF? get the fuck out of here with that. if fangraphs really says that, then it just gives more fuel to the WAR is a flawed stat fire.

Fangraphs doesn't "say" anything. The "borderline HOF" comment was happybat's words.

He's not going into the hall of fame.

[failos]

9 hours ago, happybat4 said:

Fangraphs loves Martin. 55 career War. Borderline HOF 

Dafuq?

[floplag]

18 hours ago, happybat4 said:

Fangraphs loves Martin. 55 career War. Borderline HOF 

Hes the literal thesis on how WAR isnt perfect. 

[Inside Pitch]

10 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Fangraphs doesn't "say" anything. The "borderline HOF" comment was happybat's words.

He's not going into the hall of fame.

Too late -- the WAR is cray cray people already running with it.

[Lou]

11 hours ago, failos said:

Dafuq?

if Martin makes the HOF, they should just blow up the building.

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Too late -- the WAR is cray cray people already running with it.

WAR isn't perfect.  

Wait.  How does WAR work?  

[failos]

2 hours ago, Lou said:

if Martin makes the HOF, they should just blow up the building.

I wonder if @happybat4 is trolling. I find it slightly impressive.

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, failos said:

I wonder if @happybat4 is trolling. I find it slightly impressive.

I think he's just implying that a guy who has accumulated 55 WAR is a borderline HOFer. A WAR between 50-70 is generally seen as a "Hall of Fame" career, but of course that is only one statistic. 

In the case of Russell Martin, his fWAR is inflated because of his defense. He's pretty much the definition of "average" offensively.

His bWAR of 38 is more reasonable. He's had a good career, but he's not getting into the Hall.

WAR is absolutely a "flawed" statistic but so is every other stat. Generally speaking, it's a pretty good basis for overall value. 

[Docwaukee]

If we believe in the way that fangraphs calculates catcher defense, Russell Martin is 9th in WAR all time for catchers.  

You know who else had an average wRC+ for his career?  Ivan Rodriguez at 104.  Yadier Molina has a career wRC+ of 99 and a lower fWAR than Martin.  

Some would consider Molina a HOFer as the best defensive catcher ever.  Based on fangraphs numbers, Martin is 3rd best.  

via JAWS, he's 28th for catcher.  

you have to also take into account that historically, there aren't a ton of really impressive catchers.  So it's not really a stretch to say he's a borderline HOFer.  He's better among his peers than people realize.  

I don't think he deserves to get in but he's on par with Molina who a lot of people think are a shoe in.  

[ettin]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

WAR isn't perfect.  

Wait.  How does WAR work?  

WAR? What is it good for? Absolutely Martin!

[failos]

2 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I think he's just implying that a guy who has accumulated 55 WAR is a borderline HOFer. A WAR between 50-70 is generally seen as a "Hall of Fame" career, but of course that is only one statistic. 

In the case of Russell Martin, his fWAR is inflated because of his defense. He's pretty much the definition of "average" offensively.

His bWAR of 38 is more reasonable. He's had a good career, but he's not getting into the Hall.

WAR is absolutely a "flawed" statistic but so is every other stat. Generally speaking, it's a pretty good basis for overall value. 

See I thought that at first, but when he said “borderline HOF” it sounded like he was admiring Martin.

[happybat4]

1 hour ago, failos said:

See I thought that at first, but when he said “borderline HOF” it sounded like he was admiring Martin.

I'm just implying based off WAR. Underrated for sure, but not a HOF in my book. 

[ukyah]

6 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Too late -- the WAR is cray cray people already running with it.

don't include me in your narrative.

 

 

 

i know i did that right.

>pat myself on the back<

[ukyah]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

If we believe in the way that fangraphs calculates catcher defense, Russell Martin is 9th in WAR all time for catchers.  

You know who else had an average wRC+ for his career?  Ivan Rodriguez at 104.  Yadier Molina has a career wRC+ of 99 and a lower fWAR than Martin.  

Some would consider Molina a HOFer as the best defensive catcher ever.  Based on fangraphs numbers, Martin is 3rd best.  

via JAWS, he's 28th for catcher.  

you have to also take into account that historically, there aren't a ton of really impressive catchers.  So it's not really a stretch to say he's a borderline HOFer.  He's better among his peers than people realize.  

I don't think he deserves to get in but he's on par with Molina who a lot of people think are a shoe in.  

i think he's on par with ramon hernandez or jason vasitek. they have similar career numbers to russell martin. if martin is a HOF, then those guys are and those guys definitely are not.

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, ukyah said:

i think he's on par with ramon hernandez or jason vasitek.

That's a fine comparison if we're going to just completely ignore the most important aspect of a catcher's game (their defense). 

[Docwaukee]

27 minutes ago, ukyah said:

i think he's on par with ramon hernandez or jason vasitek. they have similar career numbers to russell martin. if martin is a HOF, then those guys are and those guys definitely are not.

he's better than those guys and he's not a hall of famer.  It's not a stretch to call him a borderline HOFer.  

[Slegnaac]

WAR...

Cray cray people...

Blowing up buildings...

 

Can this thread get any better?

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, ukyah said:

don't include me in your narrative.

 

 

 

i know i did that right.

>pat myself on the back<

I wasnt.   The people that do that know who they are....  So do you.

[tdawg87]

Face!

[Tank]

The only stat that isn’t flawed?

 

yep.

 

 

RBIs.

[ukyah]

On 11/29/2019 at 4:40 PM, tdawg87 said:

That's a fine comparison if we're going to just completely ignore the most important aspect of a catcher's game (their defense). 

i think players get into the HOF on their offensive numbers. i realize that defense is key for a catcher, but if that were enough then there would be a lot of defense only catchers in the HOF.

[ukyah]

23 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

I wasnt.   The people that do that know who they are....  So do you.

 

honestly, i don't. but i'm kind of oblivious in that way. i have only the faintest picture of a few here. i just come here and talk some baseball.