Best FA catchers still unsigned

[Angel Oracle]

Down to five now:

Chirinos, Machete, Jason Castro, Alex Avila, and Austin Romine

preferences?

Note: Did not include Martin, age 37 in 2020 and was not good offensively in 2019.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Angel Oracle

[Claude]

11 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Down to four now:

Machete, Jason Castro, Alex Avila, and Austin Romine

preferences?

They should ditch the current plan and sign both Maldonado and Romine. 

[Stradling]

They’ll sign Maldonado or trade for a major league ready catcher. I also would not be surprised to see them go after Austin Barnes. 

[Stradling]

Would a Marsh for Kiebert Ruiz trade be out of the question?

[Warfarin]

25 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Would a Marsh for Kiebert Ruiz trade be out of the question?

I have thought about this.  I do think, though, we'd have to kick in more than Marsh.  Ruiz is considered a top 25-30 prospect, in part because of the position he plays and his young age for the level he plays in.  Baseball Trade Values (https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trade-simulator/) has his value as 50.6, which is rather incredible for a prospect.

Still, it's a rather interesting idea.  I've read the Dodgers might be looking to move some depth pieces (guys like Ross Stripling), and I've thought he'd be a good target for us too, given years of control and his low cost.  I'd be interested in a packaged deal for Stripling and Ruiz.  The Dodgers could use some OF prospects, which happens to be our organizational strength.

If we could sign Cole + Ryu, then swing a trade for Stripling + Ruiz, I think that'd be an "affordable" offseason plan.  Our rotation would immediately become this:

Cole, Ryu, Ohtani, Canning, Stripling, Heaney, with Barria/Suarez/Sandoval/etc as depth.

Ruiz is likely to become a contributor by mid-season or so, and he'd become our catcher for the next 6+ years (he's only 21, I believe).  It'd be tough, but I'd trade Marsh in a deal for him, as it'd give us a very long-term, cost-effective solution in our greatest positional area of weakness, dipping in from our greatest positional area of strength.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I have thought about this.  I do think, though, we'd have to kick in more than Marsh.  Ruiz is considered a top 25-30 prospect, in part because of the position he plays and his young age for the level he plays in.  Baseball Trade Values (https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trade-simulator/) has his value as 50.6, which is rather incredible for a prospect.

I was simply looking at the most recent top 50 prospect report that came out where it has Marsh ranked 36th and I didn’t see Ruiz in the top 50.   Although because of his position he probably still holds more vale than Marsh. 

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

I was simply looking at the most recent top 50 prospect report that came out where it has Marsh ranked 36th and I didn’t see Ruiz in the top 50.   Although because of his position he probably still holds more vale than Marsh. 

Ah, it's possible Marsh holds more value, I was probably looking at some older rankings.  I think Marsh will be a better overall player, but I think you hit the nail on the head there - Ruiz plays a position that most teams need to fill (i.e., higher demand), and he's so young and virtually never strikes out, all while playing in AA/AAA, that I think he does hold a ton of value on the whole still.

But all that said, it's a very interesting idea.  I'm all on board for trading from our prospect depth to acquire a catching prospect, who can hopefully "solve" the position for us for many years.

[Inside Pitch]

32 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Would a Marsh for Kiebert Ruiz trade be out of the question?

I brought this up a while back...   Dunno if the Dodgers would be interested because of their glut of OFers -- but he's got legit two way upside behind the plate.

[Inside Pitch]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I was simply looking at the most recent top 50 prospect report that came out where it has Marsh ranked 36th and I didn’t see Ruiz in the top 50.   Although because of his position he probably still holds more vale than Marsh. 

Marsh helped himself out tremendously in the AFL and IMO is going to be better than Ruiz, the issue is there is always a premium on catchers that show any semblance of ability with the bat.  The downside -- most of the ones that do it in the minors fail to do it in the majors.   Marsh is the surer bet IMO.

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

Down to four now:

Machete, Jason Castro, Alex Avila, and Austin Romine

preferences?

Did Chirinos sign?

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

They’ll sign Maldonado or trade for a major league ready catcher. I also would not be surprised to see them go after Austin Barnes. 

 

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Would a Marsh for Kiebert Ruiz trade be out of the question?

2 great ideas imo, and i do think the Dodgers likely want to do something in that regard and Barnes is a logical trade piece not only due to Ruiz but they have another catcher on the farm thats highly touted as well if im not mistaken.
I think i would do that deal, i think i would probably do that deal for anyone not named Adell. 
We need an answer at the spot for more than a year and we have no one in the pipeline of promise.
The whole trade within the city thing is a likely roadblock but it does make sense.  I suspect though they might want a young pitcher over the OF as that seem to be thier target this off season.  They are so deep in the OF and so young that Marsh may not interest them too much.  But i like the idea.

[kevinb]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

They’ll sign Maldonado or trade for a major league ready catcher. I also would not be surprised to see them go after Austin Barnes. 

Why does everyone want Maldonado back? He’s gonna be 33 and when he was here last he had a 614 ops. We have to be able to provide better offense than that don’t we? 

[Stradling]

They have Will Smith who came up and did very well. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Kevinb said:

Why does everyone want Maldonado back? He’s gonna be 33 and when he was here last he had a 614 ops. We have to be able to provide better offense than that don’t we? 

Cost, familiarity, works well with pitchers, limited catcher market.  

[Second Base]

Marsh for Ruiz makes a ton of sense on paper, but I think the Dodgers are pretty loaded in the outfield already, so I don't think they'd go for it. 

As for the Angels current catching situation, I don't believe it's as dire as many of you are making it out to be. Stassi is a better hit than we saw last year. His minor league numbers draw that out. He's remaking his swing, and he has some pop to go with it. I don't believe for one second that Stassi will be a good offensive catcher, I simply believe he won't be as bad as he was. 

And Kevan Smith was actually a good offensive catcher before injury took away any sense of momentum he had. If he stays healthy, he stays in a groove and provides the bat you desire, but not the defense. 

A Stassi-Smith platoon should actually be fairly productive. But the big thing here is that Stassi likely won't be 100% to start the season, and Smith's defense isn't good enough to roll out there everyday. Bemboom is a good defensive catcher but lacks the upside you want, even for a short period of time. 

In my opinion, the Angels need a temporary option until Stassi gets back. Once he returns, whoever has performed better between Smith and the other guy sticks around in platoon role with Stassi, with Max getting the light side of the platoon, at least to start.

As for who that catcher might be... I like Chirinos or Romine. If it's Chirinos, you'll have to pay him more, but you can expect more production. If the Angels sign him, forget about him being a platoon partner. You better start him. If it's Romine, I think at some point you be getting rid of Smith. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

The downside -- most of the ones that do it in the minors fail to do it in the majors.

Name one.

[tdawg87]

Chirinos.

Cheating aside, he's the best overall candidate and I think he signs a 1-year deal.

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

Did Chirinos sign?

Drew a brain fart, adding him to the OP.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Angel Oracle

[Inside Pitch]

22 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Name one.

Mathis...   

Jeff Clement -- .825 career minor league OPS (top 100 three times) billed as an offensive first catcher, Mike Zunino -- career .920 minor league OPS (top 100).  Kevin Plawecki -- .815 career minor league OPS (top 100).  

Catchers miss more than any other position players.

 

[Docwaukee]

the one caveat in regard to Marsh is that he's not quite major league ready.  I don't think a contending team that needs OF help is gonna want to wait at least half a year and maybe a whole year to slot him in.   

I actually like the idea of of Ruiz and Stripling and would love to figure that out without including Marsh but it doesn't seem overly feasible considering the dogs OF depth.  The one thing I don't love about Ruiz is his low walk rate.  But that hit tool for a catcher is pretty impressive.  

If we're gonna trade with a contender for a catcher, we'd likely have to give someone up from our major league depth.  Like Rengifo or Fletcher which I would be reluctant to do unless the return was a player we could slot in for many years.  If the Angels dropped that return down into the Ward, Walsh, Herm, Thaiss range, then we're not talking about getting someone who is anything more than a platoon player.  There is probably a backup on some team that I am missing here who Eppler is targeting.  Maybe like an Aramis Garcia from the Giants or a Reese Mcguire from the Jays.  

As far as the remaining free agents, I think Castro would be my first choice followed by Chirinos.  

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Mathis...   

Jeff Clement -- .825 career minor league OPS (top 100 three times) billed as an offensive first catcher, Mike Zunino -- career .920 minor league OPS (top 100).  Kevin Plawecki -- .815 career minor league OPS (top 100).  

Catchers miss more than any other position players.

 

even if the bat eventually catches up, it could be 3-4 years before that happens.  Or longer.  

[Docwaukee]

21 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Drew a brain fart, adding him to the OP.

Russel Martin is probably in that mix somewhere as well.  

[totdprods]

Catching prospects bust way, way too often, and also usually start too slowly in the majors, for me to deal Marsh for one. I’d much sooner use him for a SP if he is being dealt. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by totdprods

[floplag]

50 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

the one caveat in regard to Marsh is that he's not quite major league ready.  I don't think a contending team that needs OF help is gonna want to wait at least half a year and maybe a whole year to slot him in.   

I actually like the idea of of Ruiz and Stripling and would love to figure that out without including Marsh but it doesn't seem overly feasible considering the dogs OF depth.  The one thing I don't love about Ruiz is his low walk rate.  But that hit tool for a catcher is pretty impressive.  

If we're gonna trade with a contender for a catcher, we'd likely have to give someone up from our major league depth.  Like Rengifo or Fletcher which I would be reluctant to do unless the return was a player we could slot in for many years.  If the Angels dropped that return down into the Ward, Walsh, Herm, Thaiss range, then we're not talking about getting someone who is anything more than a platoon player.  There is probably a backup on some team that I am missing here who Eppler is targeting.  Maybe like an Aramis Garcia from the Giants or a Reese Mcguire from the Jays.  

As far as the remaining free agents, I think Castro would be my first choice followed by Chirinos.  

The Padres also have a lot of depth at the spot, Mejia, Hedges etc...
Im honestly not that enthralled with any of the remaining FA and thing trade options would be much better to fill this need.   If no other option, bring back Maldy to buy a little more time, at least you know he will give you top notch D and hit a little from time to time and could help the young pitchers move along

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

the one caveat in regard to Marsh is that he's not quite major league ready.  I don't think a contending team that needs OF help is gonna want to wait at least half a year and maybe a whole year to slot him in.   

I actually like the idea of of Ruiz and Stripling and would love to figure that out without including Marsh but it doesn't seem overly feasible considering the dogs OF depth.  The one thing I don't love about Ruiz is his low walk rate.  But that hit tool for a catcher is pretty impressive.  

If we're gonna trade with a contender for a catcher, we'd likely have to give someone up from our major league depth.  Like Rengifo or Fletcher which I would be reluctant to do unless the return was a player we could slot in for many years.  If the Angels dropped that return down into the Ward, Walsh, Herm, Thaiss range, then we're not talking about getting someone who is anything more than a platoon player.  There is probably a backup on some team that I am missing here who Eppler is targeting.  Maybe like an Aramis Garcia from the Giants or a Reese Mcguire from the Jays.  

As far as the remaining free agents, I think Castro would be my first choice followed by Chirinos.  

In the thread where I brought up trading for Ruiz, I mentioned Adams as possibly being the more appealing option for the Dodgers just because he is further away from the majors and they DO have a glut of OFers curently...   But that might be more of a down the road trade than anything right now.  Ruiz, Marsh, Adams -- they all need more time in the minors.