Time to Abandon the Opener

[eligrba]

The Angels are only competing for a draft position at this point.  F*ck the opener and the fear of "third time through the lineup" and let the kids pitch, let the coaches coach and hopefully someone can figure how to use a 2 strike count to the pitcher's advantage..

Just play some old school baseball for the rest of the year.  I think every pitchers goal should be to learn how to get through the lineup three times because it opens up more opportunities and expands their repertoire.  F*ck the stats......the remaining part of the season should focus on the young pitchers learning how to be successful at the major league level.

[TroutField]

4 minutes ago, eligrba said:

The Angels are only competing for a draft position at this point.  F*ck the opener and the fear of "third time through the lineup" and let the kids pitch, let the coaches coach and hopefully someone can figure how to use a 2 strike count to the pitcher's advantage..

Just play some old school baseball for the rest of the year.  I think every pitchers goal should be to learn how to get through the lineup three times because it opens up more opportunities and expands their repertoire.  F*ck the stats......the remaining part of the season should focus on the young pitchers learning how to be successful at the major league level.

The opener is effective when you have a good pitcher opening. Otherwise starting the game off down at least 1 and as much as 5 isn’t going to instill any confidence in anybody. Especially a rookie pitcher that has no chance to win the game after being down 5-0 after the first without throwing a pitch... 

 

 

[zenmaster]

It's hard to do much of anything when you don't have good openers, starters, or closers.

[yamsi12]

Maybe just get rid of Taylor Cole in that role?

[Vlad27Trout27]

Cole came into his last 2 opener's with an era under 3. 

[stormngt]

Both Pena and Barria (the two primarily with an opener) both pitched better a year ago without an opener.  That should tell you something.   

[m0nkey]

3 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Both Pena and Barria (the two primarily with an opener) both pitched better a year ago without an opener.  That should tell you something.   

What does it tell me?  Pena had an ERA over 5 as a starter this year

[Claude]

I’m old school and I can’t stand the opener. I miss the days of complete game pitchers, complete no hitters by the starter, 200 plus innings guys, 200 plus K’s, 20 game winners. The game has changed so much but not all for the better. These pitching changes make me appreciate guys like Ryan, Drysdale, JR Richards, Valenzuela, Langston and many many more. Give me 7-8 innings and bring in a setup guy and then a fireball closer. That’s the way I remember it. This opener stuff may be strategic but it makes them all look soft. 

[m0nkey]

8 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

I’m old school and I can’t stand the opener. I miss the days of complete game pitchers, complete no hitters by the starter, 200 plus innings guys, 200 plus K’s, 20 game winners. The game has changed so much but not all for the better. These pitching changes make me appreciate guys like Ryan, Drysdale, JR Richards, Valenzuela, Langston and many many more. Give me 7-8 innings and bring in a setup guy and then a fireball closer. That’s the way I remember it. This opener stuff may be strategic but it makes them all look soft. 

Can’t wait for someone to come in and say your opinion is wrong 

[yk9001]

15 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

I’m old school and I can’t stand the opener. I miss the days of complete game pitchers, complete no hitters by the starter, 200 plus innings guys, 200 plus K’s, 20 game winners. The game has changed so much but not all for the better. These pitching changes make me appreciate guys like Ryan, Drysdale, JR Richards, Valenzuela, Langston and many many more. Give me 7-8 innings and bring in a setup guy and then a fireball closer. That’s the way I remember it. This opener stuff may be strategic but it makes them all look soft. 

My guess is Ausmus would take those guys as well.

[NJHalo]

15 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

My guess is Ausmus would take those guys as well.

I think I'd take those guys right now over most of what we have....JR Richards included. 

[Second Base]

The opener has sucked for the Angels so far. I really don't care one way or the other though. As long as our starters can start going 6 innings we'll be fine, with it without the opener.

[Claude]

2 hours ago, m0nkey said:

Can’t wait for someone to come in and say your opinion is wrong 

I knew I was wrong before I wrote it. Angelswin is like candid camera. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Calzone 2

[Torridd]

I do think it's futile. Just pitch for five innings or so. I don't think they make a difference.

[2112]

Let guys like Peters just pitch.  Start him every fifth day, it he craps the bed, move on.  If he's halfway decent - we've got a cheap starter.

[AngelsFaninGA]

1 hour ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

Cole came into his last 2 opener's with an era under 3. 

A few blowups here and there are what separates a bad reliever from good one. Suddenly your ERA goes from 2 to 5. Cole isn't much more than a mop up man, he just over performed in low leverage situations last year. 

[Claude]

If an opener starts the game and shuts down the opponents 1-2-3 hitters and then the starter comes in to the second inning and gives up 3 runs, both him, and Ausmus, should get kicked in the nutts. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Calzone 2

[Mark PT]

3 hours ago, eligrba said:

The Angels are only competing for a draft position at this point.  F*ck the opener and the fear of "third time through the lineup" and let the kids pitch, let the coaches coach and hopefully someone can figure how to use a 2 strike count to the pitcher's advantage..

Just play some old school baseball for the rest of the year.  I think every pitchers goal should be to learn how to get through the lineup three times because it opens up more opportunities and expands their repertoire.  F*ck the stats......the remaining part of the season should focus on the young pitchers learning how to be successful at the major league level.

Yes, the whole third time through the line up is BS. None of that would matter if the pitchers could hit their spots, which no Angel can. It is also the pitchers job to find combinations that challenge the batter. As you say, this is pitching at the major league level. I honestly dont think there is one major league pitcher on this starting roster (Canning might be eventually).

[Mark PT]

57 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

A few blowups here and there are what separates a bad reliever from good one. Suddenly your ERA goes from 2 to 5. Cole isn't much more than a mop up man, he just over performed in low leverage situations last year. 

Cole sucks. He has zero control over where he is throwing the ball. He should only be in when either leading or losing by 10.

[Jeff Fletcher]

An opener is a way to help prop up pitchers who aren’t as good. 

The Angels, and every other team, would love to have five starters who were good enough that they felt they didn’t need the opener. 

Right now they don’t have enough good pitchers. That is the problem, period.

[greginpsca]

I have to think our relievers are gassed. Seems like we use an average of 4-5 relievers a game. Over 2/3 of the season, they are just worn out. They look like they need a couple weeks of rest.

[ScruffytheJanitor]

5 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

An opener is a way to help prop up pitchers who aren’t as good. 

The Angels, and every other team, would love to have five starters who were good enough that they felt they didn’t need the opener. 

Right now they don’t have enough good pitchers. That is the problem, period.

This is true, but I don't think it's working. It didn't really work for the Rays last year or even this year-- What's worked is getting players like Blake Snell and Tyler Glasnow. Other wise, there was basically no real difference between performance for either the opener or the "main" pitcher when they are in use.

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 minutes ago, ScruffytheJanitor said:

This is true, but I don't think it's working. It didn't really work for the Rays last year or even this year-- What's worked is getting players like Blake Snell and Tyler Glasnow. Other wise, there was basically no real difference between performance for either the opener or the "main" pitcher when they are in use.

It is one of those things designed to improve your performance by a small margin, so you don’t really know if it works until you’ve done a lot of times, and you can never really get an accurate test on it because so many other variables are always changing. 

It is one of those things like “How many licks does it take to get the center of a Tootsie Pop?”

[gurn67]

18 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

An opener is a way to help prop up pitchers who aren’t as good. 

The Angels, and every other team, would love to have five starters who were good enough that they felt they didn’t need the opener. 

Right now they don’t have enough good pitchers. That is the problem, period.

Right now they don’t have ANY good pitchers.

Fixed

[Claude]

9 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

An opener is a way to help prop up pitchers who aren’t as good. 

The Angels, and every other team, would love to have five starters who were good enough that they felt they didn’t need the opener. 

Right now they don’t have enough good pitchers. That is the problem, period.

Pitching has to be one of the most unnatural things to do to your arm. A lot of high school pitchers are already toast because of what’s required to compete.