Talk me down or confirm my reality

[Inside Pitch]

4 hours ago, True Grich said:

For 19 years - we were used to a certain style of Angels baseball. When it was going good - there was aggressive base running.  There was solid fundamental defense. They forced the issue on the bases.  They did the most with the talent they had.  They frequently out performed projections - or at least I thought they did.  This team looks like it's falling into the abyss.

It's on Eppler. It's on Ausmus.  It's on Arte Moreno. 

Last night's dismal crowd was shocking to see.  It was like we were back in the 70's and 80's when people didn't show up and those that did - were there to root for the other team. 

This is the most boring Angels team in an easy 20 years.  Even the awful 1999 team was interesting in that you half expected to hear about a shooting in the clubhouse.   Station to station baseball is boring, always has been unless you have some 2019 Mariners like explosion on HRs.  People used to bitch about outs on the basepath while ignoring it forced the action and kept things moving.  Now the Angels are like everyone else and wait for the guy at the plate to move them over..  Zzzzzzz.

It will get better when they are at full strength -- but you're 100% in thinking that many of the elements of Angels baseball 2000-2018 are gone, at least until some of the more athletic guys in the system filter their way up..  My fear is that in the three outcome world that baseball is evolving into that athleticism won't always be put to maximum use...   

What I don't like, what's different for me is that I went into last nights game expecting boring uninspired play and they delivered that exactly..   Even when they were awful I expected them to at least keep it interesting.  I'm happy baseball is back, I'm happy the Angels are playing again but for the first time in eons I'm happy there are other teams to watch and almost always prefer watching the minor league stuff.

Anyway..  Things will get better, the struggle will be to stay awake until they do.

[TroutBaseball]

Their Pythagorean WL is 11-13. That feels about right to me. 2 games under .500 in April is nothing more to get excited about than going 13-3 last April. Patience.

[Inside Pitch]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

If you can have a sense of humor and laugh at how bad the Angels are.

Otherwise you should watch some other team. Maybe take up golf.

Honestly this is good advice...   I had a couple options the other night when they pinch hit Bour and I chose to laugh...   It was a completely idiotic move IMO and I felt like I saw the result coming but it was easier to laugh than get bent...  For me, it's healthier too.

Luckily with Milbtv there is always the option of watching minor league game and that really does help a lot.

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Regarding Doug White, does it generally take a year for pitchers to adjust to a new pitching coach?    Or is it mainly lack of talent/too many injuries?

Because his hiring hasn't done diddly squat yet for the rotation.

The starting pitching is really meh.   The bullpen has mostly been fine though, outside of Allen's meltdown.  

It really is too early to put any weight into anything starter wise well -- save for a couple guys IMO.  I'm not a fan of the Stratton experiment and I know myself and a lot of other people here were skeptical of the Harvey signing...  IMO with good reason, guys with TOS have terrible track records coming back. 

Cahill's been hurt by the long ball -- that can happen in spurts, we will see if it carries over the entire year or if it's one of those baseball things.   We haven't seen Heaney, we really haven't seen much of Skaggs.    I've felt like Barria has pitched better than his ERA shows, Pena had an ugly game but hasn't been awful -- the entire staff has been giving up HRs though..   There is already a lot of talk about MLB possibly being cute with the balls again, time will tell.   When push comes to shove -- HRs allowed have been the biggest issue.

[rottiesworld]

5 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

What's the old saying..... you can't win the division in April but you can lose it. 

It occurred to me last night angels could be done before my kids get out of school for the summer.  That's a lot of season left to have zero hope.  

Can't even blame Upton injury because Goodwin has exceeded my expectations of what Upton would do.  

Rotation sucks.  3b sucks.  1b/dh sucks.  Calhoun is not a starting OF. Our closer is our worst option in the pen.  

I guess enjoy trout,  moments by Simmons,  wait for ohtani, and see what eppler can get in trades again.  

Sigh 

Anyone else or is it still early? 

 

5 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

What's the old saying..... you can't win the division in April but you can lose it. 

It occurred to me last night angels could be done before my kids get out of school for the summer.  That's a lot of season left to have zero hope.  

Can't even blame Upton injury because Goodwin has exceeded my expectations of what Upton would do.  

Rotation sucks.  3b sucks.  1b/dh sucks.  Calhoun is not a starting OF. Our closer is our worst option in the pen.  

I guess enjoy trout,  moments by Simmons,  wait for ohtani, and see what eppler can get in trades again.  

Sigh 

Anyone else or is it still early? 

and the manager sucks as well

[Claude]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

This is the most boring Angels team in an easy 20 years.  Even the awful 1999 team was interesting in that you half expected to hear about a shooting in the clubhouse.   Station to station baseball is boring, always has been unless you have some 2019 Mariners like explosion on HRs.  People used to bitch about outs on the basepath while ignoring it forced the action and kept things moving.  Now the Angels are like everyone else and wait for the guy at the plate to move them over..  Zzzzzzz.

It will get better when they are at full strength -- but you're 100% in thinking that many of the elements of Angels baseball 2000-2018 are gone, at least until some of the more athletic guys in the system filter their way up..  My fear is that in the three outcome world that baseball is evolving into that athleticism won't always be put to maximum use...   

What I don't like, what's different for me is that I went into last nights game expecting boring uninspired play and they delivered that exactly..   Even when they were awful I expected them to at least keep it interesting.  I'm happy baseball is back, I'm happy the Angels are playing again but for the first time in eons I'm happy there are other teams to watch and almost always prefer watching the minor league stuff.

Anyway..  Things will get better, the struggle will be to stay awake until they do.

I’m actually going to wait and see how the team responds with a full healthy roster. Injuries and bad luck have plagued this team for years so it’s tough to win with any consistency when things like that happen. Sure we will poke a little fun along the way but with a clear understanding that we will have a bright future. 

[Inside Pitch]

7 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

I’m actually going to wait and see how the team responds with a full healthy roster. Injuries and bad luck have plagued this team for years so it’s tough to win with any consistency when things like that happen. Sure we will poke a little fun along the way but with a clear understanding that we will have a bright future. 

Absolutely... I'm not punting, I expect it to get better.  I'm happy to see the predictive data say what it's saying and expect better results will come but I really do find station to station boring.

 

[Angel Oracle]

I hate three true outcomes baseball.    Boring!   Might as well be playing Stratomatic Baseball.

[Jay]

Yes but Three True Outcomes more closely mimics the mobile app.

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

What is different about Heaney's injury this time vs a year ago?   Seems that he missed very little time a year ago, and now it will be two months when he returns?   I guess the bright side is that he will be limited to about 130 innings in 2019, which is what he should have been limited to in 2018, given the lack of innings in 2016/2017.   

The difference is this year he tried to pitch through it and made it worse. 

[Mark PT]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

What is different about Heaney's injury this time vs a year ago?   Seems that he missed very little time a year ago, and now it will be two months when he returns?   I guess the bright side is that he will be limited to about 130 innings in 2019, which is what he should have been limited to in 2018, given the lack of innings in 2016/2017.   

Speaking without directly knowing if his injuries are the same, I have to believe he will have arm and shoulder problems his whole career because his mechanics suck. He is all arm no legs or back. 

[Tank]

as i've gotten older i've learned to enjoy the game for what it is a whole lot more. no more living and dieing game by game. no more expectations of "maybe this'll be the year for some magic." 2002 went a very, very long way for me. i sincerely hope i get to see another championship in my lifetime.

my daughter thoroughly enjoys the experience of going to games with me. we celebrate the great moments and "oh well, maybe tomorrow night" the rest. she's 19 and has had a sudden resurgence of interest in going to games. i'm going to enjoy that for as long as i can. winning and losing is completely secondary for me right now.

[T.G.]

14 minutes ago, Tank said:

as i've gotten older i've learned to enjoy the game for what it is a whole lot more. no more living and dieing game by game. no more expectations of "maybe this'll be the year for some magic." 2002 went a very, very long way for me. i sincerely hope i get to see another championship in my lifetime.

my daughter thoroughly enjoys the experience of going to games with me. we celebrate the great moments and "oh well, maybe tomorrow night" the rest. she's 19 and has had a sudden resurgence of interest in going to games. i'm going to enjoy that for as long as i can. winning and losing is completely secondary for me right now.

I hereby revoke your super fan card.  And you must also change your name from tank to tanked. 

[Angelsjunky]

2 hours ago, Adam said:

Clearly the goal is to contend for a championship in 2018 2019 2020 2021

Fixed.

[Angelsjunky]

2 hours ago, Adam said:

Clearly the goal is to contend for a championship in 2018 2019 2020 2021

Fixed.

[ten ocho recon scout]

30 minutes ago, Tank said:

as i've gotten older i've learned to enjoy the game for what it is a whole lot more. no more living and dieing game by game. no more expectations of "maybe this'll be the year for some magic." 2002 went a very, very long way for me. i sincerely hope i get to see another championship in my lifetime.

my daughter thoroughly enjoys the experience of going to games with me. we celebrate the great moments and "oh well, maybe tomorrow night" the rest. she's 19 and has had a sudden resurgence of interest in going to games. i'm going to enjoy that for as long as i can. winning and losing is completely secondary for me right now.

There it is.

Also, have you two ever popped Iron Eagle in the ole VCR and enjoyed that nail biter together?

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

It really is too early to put any weight into anything starter wise well -- save for a couple guys IMO.  I'm not a fan of the Stratton experiment and I know myself and a lot of other people here were skeptical of the Harvey signing...  IMO with good reason, guys with TOS have terrible track records coming back. 

Cahill's been hurt by the long ball -- that can happen in spurts, we will see if it carries over the entire year or if it's one of those baseball things.   We haven't seen Heaney, we really haven't seen much of Skaggs.    I've felt like Barria has pitched better than his ERA shows, Pena had an ugly game but hasn't been awful -- the entire staff has been giving up HRs though..   There is already a lot of talk about MLB possibly being cute with the balls again, time will tell.   When push comes to shove -- HRs allowed have been the biggest issue.

Halos must lead the AL in HRs allowed?   Seems like it.

Update: Close, 2nd most HRs allowed (42 in 24 games), only the hapless O's have allowed more HRs.

Nicely done, zero rotation guys! 

[beatlesrule]

7 hours ago, True Grich said:

I think Angel fans have every single stinking right to be angry and feel like there isn't any light at the end of the tunnel.  There isn't a single starting pitcher who give us any confidence what-so-ever.  Not a single one.  Seeing the team give up runs early night after night is just demoralizing.  Then watching late inning come backs fall short - adds to the frustration.

Adding to the misery is the fact that Houston is still a very, very good team.  Seattle is exceeding expectations and that doesn't help matters either - especially when you just watched your team lose 3 out of 4 (plus the two earlier in the season).

The hole is getting deeper and darker.  This sucks.  It blows. 

I still go to games and will continue to go to games, but it's getting easier and easier to find reasons not to.   Baseball is supposed to be fun.  This brand of baseball is hard to stomach.  I have season tickets... I'd like to get my money's worth out of having them. I feel like I'm wasting my time and my money.  I don't like it. 

It all adds up. The lousy pitching.  The poor hitting.  The stupid mistakes in the field by guys like La Stella and Bour.  The questionable decisions by Ausmus , etc. 

For 19 years - we were used to a certain style of Angels baseball. When it was going good - there was aggressive base running.  There was solid fundamental defense. They forced the issue on the bases.  They did the most with the talent they had.  They frequently out performed projections - or at least I thought they did.  This team looks like it's falling into the abyss.

It's on Eppler. It's on Ausmus.  It's on Arte Moreno. 

Last night's dismal crowd was shocking to see.  It was like we were back in the 70's and 80's when people didn't show up and those that did - were there to root for the other team. 

I agree with all of this but the fact is that I will once again be watching tonight and plan on going to at least one game this year. I'm also always on the lookout for free or discounted tickets too.  I know this year has been a disappointment so far and that Moreno should have been doing so much more while he's had Trout but the Angels are my team so I just have to keep watching.  It has gotten to the point where I am now doing other things(currently playing Mass Effect for the first time)while I watch the game. When they went down 7-1 last night or whatever it was, I knew the game was over so put on the Sharks game instead while playing Mass Effect. Unlike other bad starts(Red Sox for example)this team has too many question marks to justify a 160 million dollar payroll but that's reality.  Eppler has mostly missed on his moves so hopefully the farm pans out or Arte hires a GM that actually does his job well. The owner isn't going anywhere and while I haven't agree with Ausmus fully, it's too early to want him gone.  I just have to have the following mindset

[Troll Daddy]

Eppler seems like a good guy ... I can hardly give him credit with signing Trout to a extension. I do give him credit for signing Ohtani. I don’t give him a whole lot of credit for the farm ... organizational decisions imo. 

Grade C

Angels odds at making the playoffs are not good. I’m still going to enjoy every Angel game played this season. 

[UndertheHalo]

I think there’s a simple way to look at the major league club.  And you just look at last year.  

The Angels finished April 2018 as one of the best teams in baseball.  And then, they were absolute dog shit for 2 and half months.  Just as bad or worse then they are now.  Things can turn around quickly and the Angels do have a lot of help coming quick with Ohtani, Skaggs, Heaney, and maybe Griffin Canning coming soon.  I like the bullpen.  The team isn’t lose 9 of 11 bad.  I think it’s very likely that they’re a .500 team.  I think it’s about equally likely that they’re better or worse then that.  Have a sense of humor about it.  Make fun of them or whatever. It’s all part of it.  That’s all fine.  

The thing that concerns me more is attaching a lot of hope to this organization becoming very good in the next couple of years, just on the strength of the farm system.  The Angels have some fun prospects.  IMO they have 2 genuinely impact prospects that might be close.  Adell and Canning.  I think the idea that Jam Jones is going to be a good starting 2B for a possible 90+ win team in 2021 or 2022 is laughable.  I think the faith some here have in like Luis Rengifo is extremely speculative.  I don’t doubt that some of the Angels prospects will end up being good players.  But I think it’s wrong to assume this is all going to come together quickly. 

My concern is that the Angels have way too many holes for the farm to be able to fill.  Mike Trout is 2 and half years away from his 30’s.  Simmons is entering his 30s.  Upton is like 32.  The Angels don’t have a huge window.  Failure to get these guys into the playoffs at the height of their baseball powers is bullshit.  They should have been in on Manny Machado.  They failed to get other FA that could have helped the team now.  In a depressed market.  The Angels brass aren’t dumb.  They know what was going on.  I’m unconvinced that they’ll go out and get the players the team needs to win in the next few years.  I’m unconvinced that those players are even available.  

So, we’ll see what happens.  It’s not all doom and gloom.  But I think a lot of stuff has to go right for the team to get where we want to be soon.  I’m not sure if that’s going to happen.  Oh well.  

And for the OP.  I get where you’re coming from man.  If winning or lack of it is impacting how you feel about spending the money.  Let the Angels know and cancel your tickets until you’re excited to go out to the big A again.  You’ve got great seats at home on your couch.  You’re not obliged to give them thousands of dollars for season seats.  

Finally, I’m 100% with some here that sometimes the environment at the Big A is lame as hell for Angels fans.  The team should do something about stupid large visiting team crowds.  It’s not 100% preventable of course.  But they can do things to try and discourage fans from selling their season seats when the Yankees or dodgers are playing us.  Other professional teams do this with some measure of success.  The Vegas Golden Knights have a great team loyalty program.  Do something to make it worth their while to show up and cheer for the Angels.  

Edited April 24, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Mark PT said:

Speaking without directly knowing if his injuries are the same, I have to believe he will have arm and shoulder problems his whole career because his mechanics suck. He is all arm no legs or back. 

Time to set up the rotation by 2021 as follows then:   Canning, Ohtani, Suarez, Barria, Sandoval, and ? (if 6 man rotation) 

[fan_since79]

1 hour ago, RBM said:

So here is a positive narrative for the hope seekers: Through 24 games we are 9-15 and the 2002 team was only 10-14 through its first 24 games.

Now for the realists out there: The 2002 team won 17 of their next 20 to bring their record to 27-17 on their way to a wild card berth and a World Series Championship.

This is not that team. We suck.

Bour, Calhoun, Cozart, Bourjos, and (the at least 39-year old) Pujols are a long way down the scale from Eckstein, Erstad, Salmon, Anderson, and Glaus. Not to mention Percy in the pen. Several other highly competitive players such as Spiezio , Fulmer, and Frankie had huge contributions that year. Our present collection is about as exciting as watching paint dry (except for Trout of course).

[ten ocho recon scout]

8 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

Just to clarify. I've been a fan since 1986 so I'm not going anywhere and losing isn't anything new.  Yet this year's team is starting to become a team I check the score on rather than watch daily.  I don't even know who the SP is tonight which is crazy for this early into the season.  

This is where ive been the past few years. I wasnt even excited to sign ohtani (with how our lucks been, I assumed hed be more hype than anything).

I stopped really hinging on he team. More into angelswin.com than the angels winning (mostly losing). I havent been able to name the bullpen or most of the staff in a few years. 

I still have fun going to the games...but thats mostly because I go with a cool group of people, and head out somewhere after the game ends...the game being more of a place to hang out with my friends than worrying about the score.

Yeah, im not happy with the team..but maybe im nonchalant because I havent been excited for a few years (although last april was fun).

That said, i legit believe its getting better. I truly believe this team will get back to good times sooner than people think.

Put it this way. Trout didnt commit to a lifetime here because of the pizza. (Although guatamalan wonk says hes never eaten it anyway).

[Lou]

I love all the calm, level-headed fans here

f'n liars. 

this place is bombarded with bitching and moaning every single day. even worse are those that go apeshit every single night in the GDT, beginning as soon as the lineup is posted. 

 

[SoCalSportsFan]

3 hours ago, Tank said:

as i've gotten older i've learned to enjoy the game for what it is a whole lot more. no more living and dieing game by game. no more expectations of "maybe this'll be the year for some magic." 2002 went a very, very long way for me. i sincerely hope i get to see another championship in my lifetime.

my daughter thoroughly enjoys the experience of going to games with me. we celebrate the great moments and "oh well, maybe tomorrow night" the rest. she's 19 and has had a sudden resurgence of interest in going to games. i'm going to enjoy that for as long as i can. winning and losing is completely secondary for me right now.

Yes, a majority of how well I enjoy the game is who I go to the game with. From 2005-2012 I went to about 35-40 games a season and went to a majority of those games with a very good friend of mine (who I split season tickets with) about 1/2 of those games. Many of the other games I took my son/wife/father in law/other close friends. I saw many games the Angels won, and many games the Angels lost, but when all is done and said, it was who I went to the games with being the major determining factor of "did I have fun", and I enjoyed every game I went to no matter of the games outcome.