Talk me down or confirm my reality

[Jay]

10 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Just to clarify. I've been a fan since 1986 so I'm not going anywhere and losing isn't anything new.  Yet this year's team is starting to become a team I check the score on rather than watch daily.  I don't even know who the SP is tonight which is crazy for this early into the season.  

Sounds like you're handling it well.

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, True Grich said:

I think Angel fans have every single stinking right to be angry and feel like there isn't any light at the end of the tunnel.  There isn't a single starting pitcher who give us any confidence what-so-ever.  Not a single one.  Seeing the team give up runs early night after night is just demoralizing.  Then watching late inning come backs fall short - adds to the frustration.

Adding to the misery is the fact that Houston is still a very, very good team.  Seattle is exceeding expectations and that doesn't help matters either - especially when you just watched your team lose 3 out of 4 (plus the two earlier in the season).

The hole is getting deeper and darker.  This sucks.  It blows. 

I still go to games and will continue to go to games, but it's getting easier and easier to find reasons not to.   Baseball is supposed to be fun.  This brand of baseball is hard to stomach.  I have season tickets... I'd like to get my money's worth out of having them. I feel like I'm wasting my time and my money.  I don't like it. 

It all adds up. The lousy pitching.  The poor hitting.  The stupid mistakes in the field by guys like La Stella and Bour.  The questionable decisions by Ausmus , etc. 

For 19 years - we were used to a certain style of Angels baseball. When it was going good - there was aggressive base running.  There was solid fundamental defense. They forced the issue on the bases.  They did the most with the talent they had.  They frequently out performed projections - or at least I thought they did.  This team looks like it's falling into the abyss.

It's on Eppler. It's on Ausmus.  It's on Arte Moreno. 

Last night's dismal crowd was shocking to see.  It was like we were back in the 70's and 80's when people didn't show up and those that did - were there to root for the other team. 

[Jay]

1 hour ago, True Grich said:

For 19 years - we were used to a certain style of Angels baseball. When it was going good - there was aggressive base running.  There was solid fundamental defense. They forced the issue on the bases.  They did the most with the talent they had.  They frequently out performed projections - or at least I thought they did.  This team looks like it's falling into the abyss.

Miss me yet...?

[floplag]

I think expectation matters.  Going into this season the expectation was that if everything were to break right we might might have a shot at the second wildcard.   If you expected everything to break right, i kinda think you havent been paying much attention    Optimism is grand and all and we all had that hope i think, but reality rarely meets expectation. 

This roster simply isnt very good.  We filled our needs with a patchwork group of affordable 1 year mercenaries designed to do one thing, be decent enough to get thru the year at an acceptable budget number and still get 3 mil to the gate.  

[Mark PT]

1 hour ago, True Grich said:

I think Angel fans have every single stinking right to be angry and feel like there isn't any light at the end of the tunnel.  There isn't a single starting pitcher who give us any confidence what-so-ever.  Not a single one.  Seeing the team give up runs early night after night is just demoralizing.  Then watching late inning come backs fall short - adds to the frustration.

Adding to the misery is the fact that Houston is still a very, very good team.  Seattle is exceeding expectations and that doesn't help matters either - especially when you just watched your team lose 3 out of 4 (plus the two earlier in the season).

The hole is getting deeper and darker.  This sucks.  It blows. 

I still go to games and will continue to go to games, but it's getting easier and easier to find reasons not to.   Baseball is supposed to be fun.  This brand of baseball is hard to stomach.  I have season tickets... I'd like to get my money's worth out of having them. I feel like I'm wasting my time and my money.  I don't like it. 

It all adds up. The lousy pitching.  The poor hitting.  The stupid mistakes in the field by guys like La Stella and Bour.  The questionable decisions by Ausmus , etc. 

For 19 years - we were used to a certain style of Angels baseball. When it was going good - there was aggressive base running.  There was solid fundamental defense. They forced the issue on the bases.  They did the most with the talent they had.  They frequently out performed projections - or at least I thought they did.  This team looks like it's falling into the abyss.

It's on Eppler. It's on Ausmus.  It's on Arte Moreno. 

Last night's dismal crowd was shocking to see.  It was like we were back in the 70's and 80's when people didn't show up and those that did - were there to root for the other team. 

I agree with everything except the insinuation that this is Eppler's fault. I think he has done a great job so far. They were, what, last in all of baseball in minor league talent and in 2 years now rank in the top 10. This takes time. The Angels are still hampered by the Josh Hamilton and Pujols deals and traded much of their talent in the early 2010s. They have assembled a good bullpen, with some exceptions. They need to get Calhoun, Cozart, and Puljos  out of the lineup and bring up youth. 

[Stradling]

57 minutes ago, Jay said:

If you can have a sense of humor and laugh at how bad the Angels are.

Otherwise you should watch some other team. Maybe take up golf.

Go right ahead. 

[T.G.]

3 minutes ago, Mark PT said:

I agree with everything except the insinuation that this is Eppler's fault. I think he has done a great job so far. They were, what, last in all of baseball in minor league talent and in 2 years now rank in the top 10. This takes time. The Angels are still hampered by the Josh Hamilton and Pujols deals and traded much of their talent in the early 2010s. They have assembled a good bullpen, with some exceptions. They need to get Calhoun, Cozart, and Puljos  out of the lineup and bring up youth. 

Eppler signed Cozart.  He also brought back Bourjos. The contracts to Harvey ($11 mil) and Cahill ($9 mil) aren't small potatoes. He's moving the future of the team in the right direction - but he's not without fault in the process - especially for this year's squad.  He also hired Ausmus... and time will tell if that was a good thing. 

[Second Base]

What I'm most looking forward to is when the kids get to play.  Rengifo at leadoff will be great.  Thaiss and Walsh over at 1B should be a lot of fun to watch and debate and seeing Walsh come in out of the pen will be a fun novelty as well.  Looking forward to seeing what a healthy Hermosillo can do.  Ward looks like he's made the adjustments in AAA and to be honest, it will just be nice to have someone other than Cozart in at 3B.  Thaiss getting reps at 3B has become a very intriguing development, because if that becomes a thing, it opens up a whole new world of possibilities for lineup configuration.  And getting Canning, Suarez and Sandoval on the mound against major league hitters will tell us a lot. 

When the kids start playing, Angels games will become a lot more interesting, and judging by what I've seen so far, they'll win a lot more ball games as well. 

[Angel Oracle]

Regarding Doug White, does it generally take a year for pitchers to adjust to a new pitching coach?    Or is it mainly lack of talent/too many injuries?

Because his hiring hasn't done diddly squat yet for the rotation.

The starting pitching is really meh.   The bullpen has mostly been fine though, outside of Allen's meltdown.  

[Mark PT]

7 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Eppler signed Cozart.  He also brought back Bourjos. The contracts to Harvey ($11 mil) and Cahill ($9 mil) aren't small potatoes. He's moving the future of the team in the right direction - but he's not without fault in the process - especially for this year's squad.  He also hired Ausmus... and time will tell if that was a good thing. 

I agree with all your points but I still think that overall, the growth in the minor league will overcome these weak signings. Plus these will be off the books soon enough. I dont mind Bourjos so much because if Upton is back and they can replace Calhoun with Goodwin, then Bourjos isnt that bad as a fill in or even a pinch runner.

[Angelsjunky]

On one hand, I feel the pain. The team sucks right now - the roster is filled with mediocrities, the lineup is anemic, we're missing two of our four best position players, a couple of our best starters. The rotation looks bad, the bullpen has holes. Even Trout is slumping (.226 BA since returning from injury, with a .387 SLG...but somehow still a .442 OBP. Lol). To add insult to injury, the hope of the future--the farm system--has been disappointing so far: our top prospect injured, most of our best prospects underperforming expectations.

It doesn't look good...right now. And that is the point. Baseball is not only a long season, but more like a never-ending series rather than a one-shot movie. There are good and bad episodes of Game of Thrones; some seasons are better than others. Or to use an over-used but apt cliche: it is a marathon, not a sprint.

There will be ups and downs, over the course of a season and a "chapter" within the "story" of a franchise. In Hollywood there's something called the "all is lost moment" when the addict reaches rock bottom or it seems like the hero won't succeed. But that is also the moment when some kind of epiphany happens and things start looking up. Of course that is Hollywood and baseball is more real, so not only is it not so tidy as that but there are many such moments, and sometimes the change in tide takes years.

Our franchise low-point, at least in this era (say, 21st century), was probably sometime in 2015-2016 - when the Angels had their worst win pct since 1999 (2016), it was clear that 2014 was an aberration, the farm system was atrocious, and Dipoto jumped ship (2015). Things have been looking better since then, even if it hasn't translated to the playoffs. Sometimes you have to look below the symptomatic level to see change, and that is the best kind of change - because it means it is lasting, not quick-fix.

This organization is going in the right direction. To some degree that's all we can ask. Throwing money at a problem might temporarily fix it, but it doesn't solve it. Eppler is trying to solve it on a lasting level. He wants to turn this team into a perennial contender. And he's got the best player in the game on board with that. So let's relax a bit, and enjoy the ups and downs of the Story of Angels Baseball.

[Jay]

Right now the Story of Angels Baseball is kind of like an Amy Schumer movie.

 

[AngelsFaninGA]

3 minutes ago, Mark PT said:

I agree with all your points but I still think that overall, the growth in the minor league will overcome these weak signings. Plus these will be off the books soon enough. I dont mind Bourjos so much because if Upton is back and they can replace Calhoun with Goodwin, then Bourjos isnt that bad as a fill in or even a pinch runner.

I think part of the concern is that the minor league improvement has yet to translate to the majors. Fletcher's been decent, but he's not gonna move the needle by himself. Ward struggled last year. Thaiss, Rengifo, Jones, Marsh, etc are off to poor starts this year (and Jones and Marsh already seemed to be fizzling last year). A lot of the other top prospects are in the low minors and based on the trajectory of Jones and Marsh there's concern that they too may fizzle out before they even get to AAA. I think you'd see a lot more optimism if guys were showing more progress, getting called up, making an impact, etc

[Claude]

2 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

Sorry, can't do. You're a better man than I.

Enjoy the games instructions...

1) Make some noise

2) Jump around

3) Bring a few beach balls

4) Get on the dance cam

5) Start the wave

6) Every now and then put the phone down and watch the game. It’s trending.

7) Find some better seats after the 5th inning. 

 Leave after the 7th inning to beat the traffic and listen to Terry Smith. 

You’re welcome. 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Calzone 2

[Angel Oracle]

Please, NOT 3) or 5)  

[T.G.]

3 hours ago, Blarg said:

Jump.

[Angel Oracle]

5 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Since 2016, the Halos have been more like Bon Jovi, living on a prayer.

[Dtwncbad]

3 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

What's the old saying..... you can't win the division in April but you can lose it. 

It occurred to me last night angels could be done before my kids get out of school for the summer.  That's a lot of season left to have zero hope.  

Can't even blame Upton injury because Goodwin has exceeded my expectations of what Upton would do.  

Rotation sucks.  3b sucks.  1b/dh sucks.  Calhoun is not a starting OF. Our closer is our worst option in the pen.  

I guess enjoy trout,  moments by Simmons,  wait for ohtani, and see what eppler can get in trades again.  

Sigh 

Anyone else or is it still early? 

When we said this at end of last year. . .

"Its only October."

When we said this at the end of the winter meetings. . .

"Its only December."

When we said this at the beginning of Spring Training. . .

"Its only Spring Training."

We say it now and. . .

"Its early in the season."

All I want to know is when is it going to not be premature to make these observations?

[angelsnationtalk]

3 hours ago, True Grich said:

I think Angel fans have every single stinking right to be angry and feel like there isn't any light at the end of the tunnel.  There isn't a single starting pitcher who give us any confidence what-so-ever.  Not a single one.  Seeing the team give up runs early night after night is just demoralizing.  Then watching late inning come backs fall short - adds to the frustration.

Adding to the misery is the fact that Houston is still a very, very good team.  Seattle is exceeding expectations and that doesn't help matters either - especially when you just watched your team lose 3 out of 4 (plus the two earlier in the season).

The hole is getting deeper and darker.  This sucks.  It blows. 

I still go to games and will continue to go to games, but it's getting easier and easier to find reasons not to.   Baseball is supposed to be fun.  This brand of baseball is hard to stomach.  I have season tickets... I'd like to get my money's worth out of having them. I feel like I'm wasting my time and my money.  I don't like it. 

It all adds up. The lousy pitching.  The poor hitting.  The stupid mistakes in the field by guys like La Stella and Bour.  The questionable decisions by Ausmus , etc. 

For 19 years - we were used to a certain style of Angels baseball. When it was going good - there was aggressive base running.  There was solid fundamental defense. They forced the issue on the bases.  They did the most with the talent they had.  They frequently out performed projections - or at least I thought they did.  This team looks like it's falling into the abyss.

It's on Eppler. It's on Ausmus.  It's on Arte Moreno. 

Last night's dismal crowd was shocking to see.  It was like we were back in the 70's and 80's when people didn't show up and those that did - were there to root for the other team. 

You said it perfectly.

I'd like to add that during the good Angel baseball the angels were focused on baseball by itself. We weren't so focused on super analytics to determine who bats where and all this crap. It was the old school thinking of "If this guy makes contact and is fast then he leads off". Eppler and staff have focused so much on analytics that sometimes it takes us out of the game. All I can think about is how Dave Roberts overused it in the World Series with the Dodgers and lost. Twice.

I love how Eppler is building the system, got Ohtani and re-signed Trout, but i'm worried the front office and management are too data driven that they are forgetting about baseball as a game. Spin rate and velocity is nice, but Luke Bard Chris Stratton will show you it's not all about that. 

Matt Shoemaker and Blake Parker have sub 2.00 ERAs....

[T.G.]

@angelsnationtalk my biggest beef with analytics is not the process itself.  It's the conversation.  I find it strange/peculiar/sad that a lot of fans spend more time talking about statistics than they do the actual game.  The "Hey, did you see that Mike Trout homerun" is now being replaced by "Hey, did you check out Trout's WAR after this past weeks' games?"  It's like some fans are more interested in the statistical outcome of games more than the actual outcome of games.  Maybe it's just me. 

Baseball is about the individual stories and accomplishments to me.  I watch a guy like Trout play and I'm amazed by what I see him doing on the field.  I don't sit there and think, "Man, I bet his OPS+ is off the charts." 

Again, I don't have any issues with using analytics and some of these new metrics to predict the productivity of a player.  I just don't need to hear about them all day, every day.

[Angel Oracle]

A balance between playing the game right (good pitching/defense and timely hitting) and working in analytics is best for me.

If the game ever gets to ONLY being truly about launch angels, spin rates, WAR, etc., we might as well be playing Stratomatic Baseball. 

[Duren, Duren]

Still early in the season, though trending negatively. And pretty much a nightmare baptism for the new coaching regime. But with major injuries they haven't ever been able to pencil in their best lineup. No excuse, since injuries are part of the equation, but the depth isn't enough to sustain things over long stretches. 

What is frustrating is ragged play, mental errors and under performance. Even bad teams can be likeable when they hustle, are in sync and at least play up to their potential, even if limited. 

So far, Eppler's acquisitions have disappointed. Most not measuring up to their career expectations. But he had a limited pool to select from and obviously is trying to bridge the present into the farm supplied future. 

Looking at this season as somewhat of an experiment I hope for the best, but am conditioned to just try and enjoy the positives. Especially when the prospects start appearing on the roster. Meantime there are Trout, Simmons, some of the bullpen and maybe a starter or two if they show consistency. And watching if Goodwin sustains his play. 

On a more hesitant track I am curious if Kole can ever regain past form. And even in decline Albert keeps persevering in his record book achievements. One day in the future his last years will just be a footnote in his career retrospective. 

As far as attending games, it always is a crapshoot as a tourist. One year I managed to be at the only rain out in decades, but went back the next day to see the Angels score in double digits against the Red Sox. Last year I saw Seattle score eight times in the first inning. This year I'll be at one of the games against the Reds. So who knows what will happen. 

Baseball in person is always enjoyable for the ambience and escapism, but winning makes it a lot more fun.

[Griffey's Corner]

4 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

What's the old saying..... you can't win the division in April but you can lose it. 

It occurred to me last night angels could be done before my kids get out of school for the summer.  That's a lot of season left to have zero hope.  

Can't even blame Upton injury because Goodwin has exceeded my expectations of what Upton would do.  

Rotation sucks.  3b sucks.  1b/dh sucks.  Calhoun is not a starting OF. Our closer is our worst option in the pen.  

I guess enjoy trout,  moments by Simmons,  wait for ohtani, and see what eppler can get in trades again.  

Sigh 

Anyone else or is it still early? 

They were never going to the playoffs this year. The Harvey signing was a total joke. Half of the lineup is a total joke. The starting pitching is bad. the relief pitching is not good. Without Trout they would probably lose 100 games. Ohtani is coming back from injury & surgery with no spring training.... he may have a down season? I hope not. He is fun to watch.

[Adam]

Clearly the goal is to contend for a championship in 2021

[Angel Oracle]

What is different about Heaney's injury this time vs a year ago?   Seems that he missed very little time a year ago, and now it will be two months when he returns?   I guess the bright side is that he will be limited to about 130 innings in 2019, which is what he should have been limited to in 2018, given the lack of innings in 2016/2017.