Ottavino 3/27 to Yankees

[Blarg]

When Trout does sign his extension with the Angels someone needs to farm every last Trout trade in the media and create a bot for the largest Twitter blast to tag every author of those trades so their feed is clogged for hours of tweet after tweet of old stupid trade scenarios. They all have to deal with every other jackass idea that was a clone of their own jackass idea.

Then follow it up with, The Angels Need to Trade Trout before his current contract runs out in 2029.

[floplag]

7 minutes ago, DMVol said:

They aren't 50 million under the luxury tax, not sure where you got that number....and the luxury tax has a lot to do with our limitations...it matters to Arte, we haven't surpassed it for the three years Eppler has been GM...

The threshold is 206M, we are targeting somewhere around 165ish, as of today with all arb done we are at about 159 per Sportrac.    206-159=47M.  You got me, not quite 50. 
 
I realize its not quite this simple and you need to take into account other things against it, but no matter how you slice it we are nowhere near the lux tax and probably 40+ under it, our budget is based on internal factors, not the tax.
 
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/los-angeles-angels/payroll/

[Stradling]

Just now, floplag said:

The threshold is 206M, we are targeting somewhere around 165ish, as of today with all arb done we are at about 159 per Sportrac.    206-159=47M.  You got me, not quite 50. 
 
I realize its not quite this simple and you need to take into account other things against it, but no matter how you slice it we are nowhere near the lux tax and probably 40+ under it, our budget is based on internal factors, not the tax.
 
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/los-angeles-angels/payroll/

While on there look at our annual revenue and the Yankees or Dodgers and you’ll understand why the Yankees can spend $50 million on the pen and we can’t.  I’ll give you a hint they bring in more than $280 million more than us. 

[floplag]

Just now, Stradling said:

While on there look at our annual revenue and the Yankees or Dodgers and you’ll understand why the Yankees can spend $50 million on the pen and we can’t.  I’ll give you a hint they bring in more than $280 million more than us. 

I never suggested we spend 50M on the pen.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, floplag said:

I never suggested we spend 50M on the pen.

But you are the poster boy in comparing our payroll to other “Big Market” teams.  

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, floplag said:

The threshold is 206M, we are targeting somewhere around 165ish, as of today with all arb done we are at about 159 per Sportrac.    206-159=47M.  You got me, not quite 50. 
 
I realize its not quite this simple and you need to take into account other things against it, but no matter how you slice it we are nowhere near the lux tax and probably 40+ under it, our budget is based on internal factors, not the tax.
 
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/los-angeles-angels/payroll/

with benefits we're about $38m under the threshold.  

[Stradling]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193645/revenue-of-major-league-baseball-teams-in-2010/

[Angel Oracle]

27 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Yep, better to shop Trout now while we can still pick up some other organization's version of Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller.

That one is right there with Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas, Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio, Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen, and John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander.

The Fish got totally fleeced in basically giving a 24 year-old Cabrera away.

[Erstad Grit]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

But you are the poster boy in comparing our payroll to other “Big Market” teams.  

Our highest paid reliever this year might be Cam fn Bedrock at 1.75 million. Apparently Parker was too expensive so we cut him. 

My anger is not that we don't have a Big Market 50 million pen, what we have is a joke. 

[Kendo36]

Welp looks like we are going into the season with giant question marks in the pen and starting pitching. Yippieee!

[Angel Oracle]

On the other hand, if it works each year that leaves extra money to bring in that one big FA at the right time (Arenado or Cole in a year?) to join Trout, Simba, Upton, Ohtani, etc.

[floplag]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

But you are the poster boy in comparing our payroll to other “Big Market” teams.  

Are we not big market?
The Yanks may have more revenue than we do, they also have more revenue streams as you yourself have noted. 
How does that equate to us not being able to do more than we do?  what they do or dont so make or dont make has little to do with us.

 

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193645/revenue-of-major-league-baseball-teams-in-2010/

I cant read that for the thing wanting 50 bucks
 

3 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

with benefits we're about $38m under the threshold.  

Thank you for that clarification.

[kevinb]

35 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

people realize that Ottavino had an era above 5.00 in 2017 right?  and that he's 33 right?

Yes but if we did sign him people would be talking about how he’s incredible and the closer this team needs. Future hall of famer etc

[Docwaukee]

7 minutes ago, floplag said:

Are we not big market?
The Yanks may have more revenue than we do, they also have more revenue streams as you yourself have noted. 
How does that equate to us not being able to do more than we do?  what they do or dont so make or dont make has little to do with us.

 

Do you think Arte and the Angels would be spending more on the team if they thought they were a better team?

Doesn't it make the most sense that the reason they aren't spending more money to bring in players is that they don't think the existing team is good enough to win the division with that incremental increase in spending?  

That comes across to me loud and clear.  In other words, an additional 30m likely doesn't change our fate.  

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, floplag said:

When you need to, is when you get less value.   Perhaps its you who should read more than the yes man posts around here.  

Look who is spouting his opinions as facts again...   The guy that allows click bait articles to formulate his thoughts..    Tell me, was it reading that sort of garbage that helped you come up with that amazing Arenado trade proposal -- because if so, it's a hard pass for me.

So, as far as your totally fact-less opinion goes -- allow me to educate you on a little bit of baseball history that seems strangely worth revisiting...

Back in the 90s, there used to be a baseball player that roamed CF... he was young, supremely talented, personable, and considered to be the face of MLB by many people.  Unlike Trout he embraced the limelight, was known nationally as "The Kid" and he was fast approaching free agency.  His team did everything they could to appease him, including giving a long term deal to his best friend but despite their best efforts "the Kid" grew dissatisfied with the situation in Seattle and the winter before his final season there demanded a trade.  But, it wasn't just any trade -- Nope.  "The Kid" had a full no trade, and the ONLY team he would accept a trade to was his home town team -- the Cincinnati Reds...  But wait it gets better..   Because he had a full no trade, and because he wanted to win, he didn't want the Reds to gut their club... so he made it known that he would veto any trade that would result in the Reds being put in a position where they couldn't win.   So, to recap.  He was forcing a trade at damn near the last second, while simultaneously attempting to decide WHO would be traded for him -- why?  Because he knew that if they didn't do what he wanted he was going to leave anyway and they would get nothing....      

Ken Griffey Jr was traded for four players, including Brett Tomko, the number 16 prospect in MLB (the Mariners wanted Pokey Reeese, but Griffey wouldnt allow that so they settled on Antonio Perez), Mike Cameron, and a lottery pick of a pitcher named Jake Meyer.   Mike Cameron would go on to outperform Griffey from that point on -- BTW...  So to recap... four players, including a MLB SP, a starting MLB CF and a top 20 prospect despite what seemed like insurmountable odds.  

Want another example?  If so, I can regale you with the story of how that same team found itself in a situation where their 34 year old star SP pitched a fit after negotiations for a contract extension broke down in a season where he was struggling while coming back from off season back surgery....   He demanded a trade at the deadline, was a pure rental, and still managed to bring back Freddy Garcia, John Halama and Carlos Guillen...

You go ahead and read those stories, I'll continue to pay attention to what's happened and who is saying what.  Because if the choice is the "yes man" posts around here or the sort of stories that leads you to believe that Mike Trout won't be valuable at the break in 2020, then by all means sign me up for  the yes man posts...

You're welcome.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Inside Pitch

[Inside Pitch]

49 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

people realize that Ottavino had an era above 5.00 in 2017 right?  and that he's 33 right?

He's seriously the poster boy for volatility -- I love the guys arm and he was the guy I would have liked to see brought in but..  Cmon...  Like my love of Eovaldi... there is a lot of projecting and ignoring involved on my part.   At 3/27 there was NO way it was gonna happen here.

[Halokingfish]

A guy I have been keeping an eye on is Greg Holland. Had a bad start to last season with St. Louis but rebounded rather nicely when Washington signed him. I don’t think he will cost that much and I think he makes sense on a one year deal. The pen is young and struggled to close games last year and a veteran presence who can close should help as a stop gap until one of the young arms establishes themselves as a long term closer. If Holland works out and by July the team is going nowhere he is another trade chip. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

I get what and why Eppy is doing it this way (to place financial resources elsewhere). But, I also know enough about the rest of the game that says it's not all about analytics. Or, maybe, they just haven't had the right guy down there as a bullpen coach. Maybe, Bailey being a former closer and bullpen guy will help in that regard as normally it's been an ex-catcher who never sat down there or a guy who during is playing career came off as aloof.

My honest opinion is that while they think they CAN compete they also realize the cards are stacked against them and don't want to throw money around if it's not going to result in a big difference.   Even if the pen goes lights out this year and we see multiple guys break out and establish themselves, I'd still hope they would see fit to adding a piece down there at some point.

[Turd Ferguson]

The NYY bullpen is going to be crazy good. I wouldn't mind seeing us take a similar approach -- just sign a bunch of quality RP and make it a 5 inning game.

[ukyah]

17 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Do you think Arte and the Angels would be spending more on the team if they thought they were a better team?

Doesn't it make the most sense that the reason they aren't spending more money to bring in players is that they don't think the existing team is good enough to win the division with that incremental increase in spending?  

That comes across to me loud and clear.  In other words, an additional 30m likely doesn't change our fate.  

just playing devil's advocate here, you don't think having harper or machado dramatically changes this team's potential?

or spreading 30 million around on a closer and a catcher? 30 million allows for a lot of different configurations of adding some pretty serious talent. 

i'm totally on board with them not giving up prospects or draft capital, but i'm not on board with that AND being cheap, which is what i think they're doing with their false ceiling. i think it's disingenuous. 

[beatlesrule]

54 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Blake Parker in 2017 age 32 - 2.54 era, 67.1ip, 11.5k/9, 5.3 h/9

Adam Ottavino in 2018 age 32, 2.43 era, 77.2ip, 13.0k/9, 4.8h/9

granted, Ottavino has had more major league success, but it's certainly been up and down.  

Not really sure where you are going with this since the Angels didn't resign Parker.

[Erstad Grit]

6 minutes ago, Halokingfish said:

A guy I have been keeping an eye on is Greg Holland. Had a bad start to last season with St. Louis but rebounded rather nicely when Washington signed him. I don’t think he will cost that much and I think he makes sense on a one year deal. The pen is young and struggled to close games last year and a veteran presence who can close should help as a stop gap until one of the young arms establishes themselves as a long term closer. If Holland works out and by July the team is going nowhere he is another trade chip. 

Saves still get relief pitchers more money. A team like ours would be  intriguing to a guy like Holland who would like to reestablish themselves as a closer. 

[Inside Pitch]

22 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Do you think Arte and the Angels would be spending more on the team if they thought they were a better team?

Doesn't it make the most sense that the reason they aren't spending more money to bring in players is that they don't think the existing team is good enough to win the division with that incremental increase in spending?  

That comes across to me loud and clear.  In other words, an additional 30m likely doesn't change our fate.  

You should really stop reading all those yes man posts, or are you one of the yes men?   Regardless if you want the real scoop on the Angels and their future possibilities you need to read what the guy in the East Philly Gazette has to say..   Flop can give you his twitter handle...   Fair warning it's all gonna be "bad news".

 

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Not really sure where you are going with this since the Angels didn't resign Parker.

that Ottavino and his track record of volatility could easily turn into Blake Parker in a heartbeat.  

The one thing parker did really well in 2017 was to limit HRs.  something that Ottavino did in colorado last year.  

let's make a friendly wager about whether he's able to do that again.  

[Docwaukee]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

You should really stop reading all those yes man posts, or are you one of the yes men?   Regardless if you want the real scoop on the Angels and their future possibilities you need to read what the guy in the East Philly Gazette has to say..   Flop can give you his twitter handle...   Fair warning it's all gonna be "bad news".

 

i think it's time to bring back the nutswingers vs. tin foil hats.  that was a lot of fun.