Ottavino 3/27 to Yankees

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, Dochalo said:

i think it's time to bring back the nutswingers vs. tin foil hats.  that was a lot of fun.  

If that happens -- let me know which team we are supposed to be ..   Ill start a twitter for it.

[Inside Pitch]

7 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Not really sure where you are going with this since the Angels didn't resign Parker.

He's pointing out that Parker was plucked off the discard pile...  and Ottavino will cost 27 mil.

[Inside Pitch]

19 minutes ago, ukyah said:

just playing devil's advocate here, you don't think having harper or machado dramatically changes this team's potential?

or spreading 30 million around on a closer and a catcher? 30 million allows for a lot of different configurations of adding some pretty serious talent. 

i'm totally on board with them not giving up prospects or draft capital, but i'm not on board with that AND being cheap, which is what i think they're doing with their false ceiling. i think it's disingenuous. 

I hate Machado -- would easily blow Hollins away as my all time most hated Angels player but at the numbers they are talking about...   They gotta really look into it.  Ultimately, I think he ends up getting a lot more than what's been reported because Philly has a fan-base waiting on them to "spend stupid money".

Edited January 17, 2019 by Inside Pitch

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Look who is spouting his opinions as facts again...   The guy that allows click bait articles to formulate his thoughts..    Tell me, was it reading that sort of garbage that helped you come up with that amazing Arenado trade proposal -- because if so, it's a hard pass for me.

So, as far as your totally fact-less opinion goes -- allow me to educate you on a little bit of baseball history that seems strangely worth revisiting...

Back in the 90s, there used to be a baseball player that roamed CF... he was young, supremely talented, personable, and considered to be the face of MLB by many people.  Unlike Trout he embraced the limelight, was known nationally as "The Kid" and he was fast approaching free agency.  His team did everything they could to appease him, including giving a long term deal to his best friend but despite their best efforts "the Kid" grew dissatisfied with the situation in Seattle and the winter before his final season there demanded a trade.  But, it wasn't just any trade -- Nope.  "The Kid" had a full no trade, and the ONLY team he would accept a trade to was his home town team -- the Cincinnati Reds...  But wait it gets better..   Because he had a full no trade, and because he wanted to win, he didn't want the Reds to gut their club... so he made it known that he would veto any trade that would result in the Reds being put in a position where they couldn't win.   So, to recap.  He was forcing a trade at damn near the last second, while simultaneously attempting to decide WHO would be traded for him -- why?  Because he knew that if they didn't do what he wanted he was going to leave anyway and they would get nothing....      

Ken Griffey Jr was traded for four players, including a Brett Tomko, the number 16 prospect in MLB (the Mariners wanted Pokey Reeese, but Griffey wouldnt allow that so they settled on Antonio Perez), Mike Cameron, and a lottery pick of a pitcher named Jake Meyer.   Mike Cameron would go on to outperform Griffey from that point on -- BTW...  So to recap... four players, including a MLB SP, a starting MLB CF and a top 20 prospect despite what seemed like insurmountable odds.  

Want another example?  If so, I can regale you with the story of how that same team found itself in a situation where their 34 year old star SP pitched a fit after negotiations for a contract extension broke down in a season where he was struggling while coming back from off season back surgery....   He demanded a trade at the deadline, as a pure rental and still managed to bring back Freddy Garcia, John Halama and Carlos Guillen...

You go ahead and read those stories, I'll continue to pay attention to what's happened and who is saying what.  Because if the choice is the "yes man" posts around here or the sort of stories that leads you to believe that Mike Trout won't be valuable at the break in 2020, then by all means sign me up for  the yes man posts...

You're welcome.

I assure you i need no history lesson from you.
It is not my opinion that making a trade when you are forced to, versus when you have more leverage, will change the value of the return.
That does not mean the value is equal, i never suggested that and said the opposite. 
It is also fact that something, is better than nothing.
As for the rest you can shove the personal shit where your sitting.   
 

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

Do you think Arte and the Angels would be spending more on the team if they thought they were a better team?

Doesn't it make the most sense that the reason they aren't spending more money to bring in players is that they don't think the existing team is good enough to win the division with that incremental increase in spending?  

That comes across to me loud and clear.  In other words, an additional 30m likely doesn't change our fate.  

Self fulfilling... team is not good enough so dont spend, team doesnt get better so still no reason to spend. 
Does it make us better than Hou, NY or Bos, no, ive already said that multiple times.   
Does it make us better than Minn, Oak, or CHw who we will be directly competing with for a playoff spot, damn skippy it would.
If the big three are the only bar you are measuring against were in deep shit for a lot longer than a couple years.   Even if Adell, Canning, Suarez, March, Thaiss were all ready to go today, would that make us better?  We both know the answer is still no.
You are literally saying if it doesnt make us a WS favorite why bother.  

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

I hate Machado -- would easily blow Hollins away as my all time most hated Angels player

One of these days, I'd like to dive into this more...  I've known of your "hatred" of Hollins, but I don't know if I know why.

He was so intense.  He also over came a lot with his diabetes to play baseball.  Just curious about your disdain for him...

[UndertheHalo]

I think we should wait and see on Houston.  They’re the paper best, but they lost 2 SP and Verlander isn’t getting younger.  

The Angels could run them down if they got Machado and had some luck. 

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, floplag said:

 Even if Adell, Canning, Suarez, March, Thaiss were all ready to go today, would that make us better?  We both know the answer is still no.

of course it would.  because then you can allocate your FA dollars somewhere else instead of the spots those guys aren't currently filling.  

 

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

You are literally saying if it doesnt make us a WS favorite why bother.  

this is far from what I am saying.  There are shades of gray.  

I am not pointing out what I would do, but what is being done.  

Eppler and Arte are literally telling you that spending an extra 30m to have a better chance at the second WC is not worth it.  

We don't know what the financial response will be when they feel we have a legit shot at winning the division.  

[T.G.]

2 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Eppler and Arte are literally telling you that spending an extra 30m to have a better chance at the second WC is not worth it. 

That's LITERALLY your opinion.

[UndertheHalo]

Bringing on Machado definitely makes the Angels better then a “shot at the wild card” 

the player is available now.  He’s young for a FA.  Very good.  And his market is depressed.  If you're about winning in 2020 and 2021 and beyond it makes all the sense in the world to go after him now.  Almost the entire professional baseball landscape is surrendering on these guys.  The Angels should fuc*king do it. 

[Docwaukee]

7 minutes ago, True Grich said:

That's LITERALLY your opinion.

of course it is.  

[Inside Pitch]

31 minutes ago, True Grich said:

One of these days, I'd like to dive into this more...  I've known of your "hatred" of Hollins, but I don't know if I know why.

He was so intense.  He also over came a lot with his diabetes to play baseball.  Just curious about your disdain for him...

The Angels asked him to help Glaus along, to teach him the ropes, to pass along some of what he knew.  In response Hollins basically told them to go pound sand -- that he had no interest in helping someone take his job from him and that if they wanted someone to babysit or teach Glaus they best find someone else.    He went out of his way to make Glaus' life pretty miserable - -riding him mercilessly, took the hazing to unhealthy levels which resulted in Glaus gravitated towards Jim Edmonds who was the Napoli light of his era.  The closer Glaus got to Edmonds the more Hollins tried to argue that Glaus was going to follow a similar path and actively tried to undermine him -- this was the Collins/Disar era where if you were smiling you weren't trying.   It was a pretty ugly situation that thankfully became pretty obvious to the Angels brass.  

Hollins was not a good guy.  

[Erstad Grit]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

The Angels asked him to help Glaus along, to teach him the ropes, to pass along some of what he knew.  In response Hollins basically told them to go pound sand -- that he had no interest in helping someone take his job from him and that if they wanted someone to babysit or teach Glaus they best find someone else.    He went out of his way to make Glaus' life pretty miserable - -riding him mercilessly, took the hazing to unhealthy levels which resulted in Glaus gravitated towards Jim Edmonds who was the Napoli light of his era.  The closer Glaus got to Edmonds the more Hollins tried to argue that Glaus was going to follow a similar path and actively tried to undermine him -- this was the Collins/Disar era where if you were smiling you weren't trying.   It was a pretty ugly situation that thankfully became pretty obvious to the Angels brass.  

Hollins was not a good guy.  

Plus his throws to 1b were terrifying

[Inside Pitch]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

I assure you i need no history lesson from you.

Oh please -- schooling you is more than should be asked of any one person..   Thank God this message board takes turns trying to educate you so I don't have to.

8 minutes ago, floplag said:

It is not my opinion that making a trade when you are forced to, versus when you have more leverage, will change the value of the return. 
That does not mean the value is equal, i never suggested that and said the opposite. 

Jesus Christ...  

You argued that "when you need to, you get less value"  In response I gave you two examples where a team being forced to trade a player was able to obtain significant value despite being backed into a corner.  Mike Trout isn't some schleb utility IFer or fading veteran -- he's an in his prime HOFer and history has shown that guys on his level are valued above others regardless of when they are traded.  It's also shown that it's impossible for a team to receive comparable value for someone like him...  Trading more years of that sort of performance because you're afraid you're going to get a lesser package down the road is idiocy... 

24 minutes ago, floplag said:

It is also fact that something, is better than nothing.

Something is better than nothing is loser talk.   You take your shot at big prize or you go home a loser regardless -- there is no bigger prize than Mike Trout.   What kind of a pussy GM would trade Trout away before he's exhausted everything he believes is within his reach to try to get him to stay?   Notice I said within his reach?  Because at the end of the day it's not entirely up to him.

Again, I gave you two examples of elite level players traded away when the team had little to no leverage that resulted in decent returns.   Unless you believe it's now or never, and that his value will never be higher than it is RIGHT NOW, what is your rush to get "something" instead of retaining the services of the best player in MLB for another year at minimum. 

Doing something now would be akin to acting out of desperation or fear of the unknown..  How often is that successful?

26 minutes ago, floplag said:

As for the rest you can shove the personal shit where your sitting.   

It's precious when you try to pretend you're above pettiness.  

[eligrba4ever]

Arte Moreno knows exactly how much he is willing to spend -- to the penny. Billy Eppler knows exactly how much Arte Moreno is willing to spend -- to the penny. The $206 million limit to avoid additional penalty expanses is irrelevant as far as the Angels are concerned. Arte ain't gonna get near $206 million.

[Inside Pitch]

37 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

We don't know what the financial response will be when they feel we have a legit shot at winning the division.  

Some people don't need to know -- they make assumptions and act on them as if their assumptions are facts.   The Angels won't spend then because they aren't spending now -- that's the only proof they need and the only conclusion they are capable of coming to.... even when there is history of the team spending when it believed it DID have a chance.

 

 

[Inside Pitch]

9 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Plus his throws to 1b were terrifying

I LOLed because I had truthfully forgotten how random his arm was.   Good call E.G.

[Dtwncbad]

5 minutes ago, eligrba4ever said:

Arte Moreno knows exactly how much he is willing to spend -- to the penny. Billy Eppler knows exactly how much Arte Moreno is willing to spend -- to the penny. The $206 million limit to avoid additional penalty expanses is irrelevant as far as the Angels are concerned. Arte ain't gonna get near $206 million.

That all fine.

I don't know how much I will spend this year.  I am still watching to make up my mind.

That 3 million fan streak is hanging on by a thread.

I am one fan.  The difference in my contribution between an 78 win team and a 88 win team is probably thousands of dollars.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

That all fine.

I don't know how much I will spend this year.  I am still watching to make up my mind.

That 3 million fan streak is hanging on by a thread.

I am one fan.  The difference in my contribution between an 78 win team and a 88 win team is probably thousands of dollars.

Cool, once that is $30 million he will sign Harper.

[floplag]

33 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

of course it would.  because then you can allocate your FA dollars somewhere else instead of the spots those guys aren't currently filling.  

 

this is far from what I am saying.  There are shades of gray.  

I am not pointing out what I would do, but what is being done.  

Eppler and Arte are literally telling you that spending an extra 30m to have a better chance at the second WC is not worth it.  

We don't know what the financial response will be when they feel we have a legit shot at winning the division.  

Doc, with respect, i know what is being done.  
As a fan, the assertion that it is not worth it to have a better shot to make the playoffs in any fashion, is simply the worst possible thing you could say to me while trying to convince me to buy tickets and merchandise. 
We all know anything can happen once you get there, but you have to get there. 
No, we dont know what they might do if they felt they had a chance to win the division... even more we have no idea when that might be or who might be available when that time comes.  If they are waiting for that, plus a top 5 farm, before acting were gonna be waiting a good long while for that kind of guarantee.

[Lou]

11 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

It's precious when you try to pretend you're above pettiness.  

I'm waiting for his obligatory Cartman moment 

[floplag]

14 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Oh please -- schooling you is more than should be asked of any one person..   Thank God this message board takes turns trying to educate you so I don't have to.

Jesus Christ...  

You argued that "when you need to, you get less value"  In response I gave you two examples where a team being forced to trade a player was able to obtain significant value despite being backed into a corner.  Mike Trout isn't some schleb utility IFer or fading veteran -- he's an in his prime HOFer and history has shown that guys on his level are valued above others regardless of when they are traded.  It's also shown that it's impossible for a team to receive comparable value for someone like him...  Trading more years of that sort of performance because you're afraid you're going to get a lesser package down the road is idiocy... 

Something is better than nothing is loser talk.   You take your shot at big prize or you go home a loser regardless -- there is no bigger prize than Mike Trout.   What kind of a pussy GM would trade Trout away before he's exhausted everything he believes is within his reach to try to get him to stay?   Notice I said within his reach?  Because at the end of the day it's not entirely up to him.

Again, I gave you two examples of elite level players traded away when the team had little to no leverage that resulted in decent returns.   Unless you believe it's now or never, and that his value will never be higher than it is RIGHT NOW, what is your rush to get "something" instead of retaining the services of the best player in MLB for another year at minimum. 

Doing something now would be akin to acting out of desperation or fear of the unknown..  How often is that successful?

It's precious when you try to pretend you're above pettiness.  

lol.. so cute when angry.  
youve never schooled me on anything other than how to be a prick, and ive never needed much help in that regard.  

[Inside Pitch]

7 minutes ago, floplag said:

lol.. so cute when angry.  

LOL, you always say this.  What is it about my responding to your stupidity with things you can't dispute that makes you think I'm angry?   You really are special.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Inside Pitch

[floplag]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

LOL, you always say this.  What is it about my responding to your stupidity with things you can't dispute that makes you think I'm angry?   You really are special.

This is hilarious coming form the guy that went out of his way to post cartman and other such things in numerous threads.
Honestly i dont know why opposing opinions seem to vex you so, but im beyond caring at this point.
Call me what you will. post cartman all you want, i really dont give a rats ass any more

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

This is hilarious coming form the guy that went out of his way to post cartman and other such things in numerous threads.
Honestly i dont know why opposing opinions seem to vex you so, but im beyond caring at this point.
Call me what you will. post cartman all you want, i really dont give a rats ass any more

There it is!