The Official 2019 Minor League Statline and Prospect Discussion Thread

[Angelsjunky]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I think Adell has a higher ceiling, but right now, I would call Marsh the more complete player.  I feel like there's still that lingering thought with Adell that it could take him longer to adjust and he won't be the full package for a few years.  That's worst case mind you.  Yet with Marsh, I think he could be a consistent major leaguer by mid 2020.  

This is my feeling as well. I could see a scenario where Marsh is slightly better for a few years, but Adell surpasses him in 2023 or 2024 as he reaches his full potential. Something like:

2020-22:

Adell (21-23): .265/.330/.490, 30 HR, 4.0 WAR per 150 games

Marsh (22-24): .290/.370/.450, 18 HR, 4.5 WAR per 150 games

2023+:

Adell (24+): .285/.370/.580, 40 HR, 6.0 WAR per 150 games

Marsh (25+): .300/.400/.500, 25 HR, 5.5 WAR per 150 games

Or something like that.

I know, a bit optimistic. But why not?

[totdprods]

10 hours ago, Sean-Regan said:

I’ll really be disappointed if we trade Marsh at this point. If we do, it better be for a legit ace.

The flip side is the harder it becomes to trade him, it also means the more that trade value is growing. I didn’t think Marsh would be enough to be a centerpiece in a deal for a legit high-upside SP, but he’s starting to make me think he could be. 

The Angels could package Marsh, one or two if their young SPs with potential (and are not critical to short-term needs) like Yan, Soriano, or Suarez, and then at most one of Rengifo or Thaiss and get themselves a pretty damn good SP I would think, without really hurting the MLB club’s 2020-2021 aspirations. By the time 2022 rolled around, ideally there’d be some new youth like Adams ready to step in to where those prospects would have been.

[Second Base]

7 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I think Adell has a higher ceiling, but right now, I would call Marsh the more complete player.  I feel like there's still that lingering thought with Adell that it could take him longer to adjust and he won't be the full package for a few years.  That's worst case mind you.  Yet with Marsh, I think he could be a consistent major leaguer by mid 2020.  

That's the general consensus and I find it to be inaccurate.

Adell has adjusted to every level significantly faster than Marsh has. By that logic, I think it'll be Marsh who has the steeper learning curve. And for the most part, Adell's hit for a higher average too. More power as well.

Both hit for contact at about the same rate.

Marsh is the better defender, but that's not a landslide though because Adell himself is a good defender. Marsh takes walk better than Adell.

Overall, I think it's shortsighted to call Marsh the more compete player. Marsh has helium right now, but I think Jo Adell has been so good, from such a young age that people have taken for granted just how good this kid is. There's a reason why Adell is a top 5 prospect.

[Vlad27Trout27]

it seems that marsh has the comps to be 3 different player

Lowest ceiling potential 

Reddick : 

Most likely

Either/Brantely/Green

Full Potential 

 Blackmon

[Chuck]

[Angel Oracle]

I still see a young Jim Edmonds in Marsh.   Edmonds didn't develop his power until age 25. 

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I still see a young Jim Edmonds in Marsh.   Edmonds didn't develop his power until age 25. 

I think that's my favorite comp for Marsh so far.  

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

That's the general consensus and I find it to be inaccurate.

Adell has adjusted to every level significantly faster than Marsh has. By that logic, I think it'll be Marsh who has the steeper learning curve. And for the most part, Adell's hit for a higher average too. More power as well.

Both hit for contact at about the same rate.

Marsh is the better defender, but that's not a landslide though because Adell himself is a good defender. Marsh takes walk better than Adell.

Overall, I think it's shortsighted to call Marsh the more compete player. Marsh has helium right now, but I think Jo Adell has been so good, from such a young age that people have taken for granted just how good this kid is. There's a reason why Adell is a top 5 prospect.

I feel like because of Marsh's plate discipline and improvement with contact he's more well rounded.  I still think Adell is better and going to be better long term.  

Adell's walk rate and k rate aren't horrendous when you consider his power but he's so talented that he's blown past normal adjustment periods that other players go through because of his quick progression.  I think he's gotten away with stuff due to tremendous raw ability that will make him a bit more exploitable in certain areas once he reaches the bigs.  I think we saw that at AAA this year.  

It's splitting hairs to be honest.  

[Angelsjunky]

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

The flip side is the harder it becomes to trade him, it also means the more that trade value is growing. I didn’t think Marsh would be enough to be a centerpiece in a deal for a legit high-upside SP, but he’s starting to make me think he could be. 

The Angels could package Marsh, one or two if their young SPs with potential (and are not critical to short-term needs) like Yan, Soriano, or Suarez, and then at most one of Rengifo or Thaiss and get themselves a pretty damn good SP I would think, without really hurting the MLB club’s 2020-2021 aspirations. By the time 2022 rolled around, ideally there’d be some new youth like Adams ready to step in to where those prospects would have been.

Or they could just keep Marsh and spend a few extra bucks in free agency.

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Or they could just keep Marsh and spend a few extra bucks in free agency.

They could, but free agents tend to suck. Ideally, they do both - at some point in time, and not necessarily involving Marsh.

Edited October 15, 2019 by totdprods

[tdawg87]

7 minutes ago, totdprods said:

They could, but free agents tend to suck. Ideally, they do both - at some point in time, and not necessarily involving Marsh.

Hopefully we get a huge year from Adams, who could then either replace Marsh or become an extremely valuable trade asset. Right now we really only have our top 2 guys and then there's a significant drop off in quality. 

[Second Base]

I think at some point, Adams or Marsh are going to be dealt. We'll have four outfielders for three spots.

So either one of them switches positions to 1B/DH, or one of them is traded. At any rate, as much love as Marsh and Adell are getting right now, that's how we'll view Adams after next year.

[totdprods]

Knowles, Hermosillo, Lund, Jhansi Jones, Deveaux - even lesser guys like Spencer Griffin, Orlando Martinez, Torii Hunter - could come into play quickly too. We have that much depth in the OF.

Walsh, Ward, Fletcher, Thaiss, or Rengifo could probably move into the OF if something dramatic necessitated it too. 

Getting someone like Brian Goodwin really helped our outfield depth. If he sticks even as a good 4th OF it cascades down a whole wave of depth possibilities. Same can be said for what La Stella and Fletcher have done for the infield depth.

Edited October 15, 2019 by totdprods

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

Hopefully we get a huge year from Adams, who could then either replace Marsh or become an extremely valuable trade asset. Right now we really only have our top 2 guys and then there's a significant drop off in quality. 

It drops off mostly because of how young and unestablished the rest are.  I think Adell and Canning's rapid progression through the minor gave everyone a false sense of expectation for most prospects.  Especially Adell.  Almost our entire top 10-12 are age 20 and below.  Outside of Marsh and Adell, there are basically two guys in our top 30 that are at AA or higher yet haven't reached mlb.  Jones, and Luis Madero.  A couple of good seasons next year and that gap could close pretty swiftly.  

[Chuck]

On a more personal note, prayers out for Brandon's dad who is battling cancer. 

 

You push me everyday. You’re the reason I do what I do. You’re an inspiration to everyone. And with all of this going on you always seem to have a smile on your face. Keep fighting and kicking cancer’s ass! I love you Dad. Forever grateful for you and all you do for our family! pic.twitter.com/4Bl3eY5Sjg

— Brandon Marsh (@brandon_marsh22) October 15, 2019

[Chuck]

Jones has raised his slash line to .297/.386/.459 with a HR and 6 stolen bases. 

[Second Base]

11 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Jones has raised his slash line to .297/.386/.459 with a HR and 6 stolen bases. 

#TradeBait

If not him, then it has to be Rengifo.  

Edited October 15, 2019 by Second Base

[Angelsjunky]

If I remember correctly, Jahmai raked in last year's AFL. 

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

If I remember correctly, Jahmai raked in last year's AFL. 

He did. I think Jones will thrive in AAA with his AFL teammates Marsh and Adell in 2020.

[Second Base]

Jahmai Jones also made some considerable adjustments in AA this year. He got considerably better. I'd like to see him in AAA this year to see if those adjustments stick. If the change is real, then he could turn into an intriguing power-speed option at 2B and the outfield, which could result in selling high on him in a trade or a Rengifo trade.

[rafibomb]

 

Looks like another minor swing adjustment for Jahmai.

Edited October 16, 2019 by rafibomb

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, rafibomb said:

 

Looks like another minor swing adjustment for Jahmai.

much different than the start of 2019 when he was really struggling. his hand were tighter to his chest and way further forward where they started from mid chest from front to back and he was moving them up and down like he was churning butter.  The bat was also angled way forward.  Needed a long way to go to get into hitting position.   Then he moved them back further where he would start with the bat laid back on his shoulder but they were still lower than they were in that video.  Now his hands are high and the bat is angled more straight up and down.  He's always kept his back elbow very high but you can see from that video that the bat only has a few inches to go in order to get to his natural starting position from where his swing starts.  He also used to have a lot more front side movement where he would start with his front foot more open.  That works for a lot of guys but it forced him to be noisier to set up his weight and balance.  As you can see from above, there is very little transfer and his front side moves very little.  He also dropped the high leg kick where he used to bring his front knee up to his waist level.  

The end result is a much quieter swing with way fewer moving parts.  When I saw his swing in ST this year I was honestly concerned and the early results were not pretty.  This is the best I've seen it look maybe ever.  

[Second Base]

6 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

much different than the start of 2019 when he was really struggling. his hand were tighter to his chest and way further forward where they started from mid chest from front to back and he was moving them up and down like he was churning butter.  The bat was also angled way forward.  Needed a long way to go to get into hitting position.   Then he moved them back further where he would start with the bat laid back on his shoulder but they were still lower than they were in that video.  Now his hands are high and the bat is angled more straight up and down.  He's always kept his back elbow very high but you can see from that video that the bat only has a few inches to go in order to get to his natural starting position from where his swing starts.  He also used to have a lot more front side movement where he would start with his front foot more open.  That works for a lot of guys but it forced him to be noisier to set up his weight and balance.  As you can see from above, there is very little transfer and his front side moves very little.  He also dropped the high leg kick where he used to bring his front knee up to his waist level.  

The end result is a much quieter swing with way fewer moving parts.  When I saw his swing in ST this year I was honestly concerned and the early results were not pretty.  This is the best I've seen it look maybe ever.  

He's got plenty of bat speed, he never needed the hitch or the leg kick. I know we've been spoiled by the success of our prospects, but an athletic prospect struggling once exposed to AA is extremely common and that's what we saw with Jahmai. 

I still think he'll be more of a doubles hitter, but he can still scrape together 10 HR's a year. He's continued to improve as a base stealing threat, and now he actually looks like a 2B.

If he isn't traded, I'm expecting Jahmai's progression to make for interesting conversation this year. Choosing between Jones, Rengifo and Wilson as they long term second baseman.

[Docwaukee]

8 minutes ago, Second Base said:

He's got plenty of bat speed, he never needed the hitch or the leg kick. I know we've been spoiled by the success of our prospects, but an athletic prospect struggling once exposed to AA is extremely common and that's what we saw with Jahmai. 

I still think he'll be more of a doubles hitter, but he can still scrape together 10 HR's a year. He's continued to improve as a base stealing threat, and now he actually looks like a 2B.

If he isn't traded, I'm expecting Jahmai's progression to make for interesting conversation this year. Choosing between Jones, Rengifo and Wilson as they long term second baseman.

he got by on pure Athleticism and all that bat speed in the low minors but it goes to show that not too many can do that without adjusting once they reach the upper levels.  Honestly, that's what I've seen a little in Adell lately.  He's such a freak that he could get to AAA without needing even a minor adjustment.  But once the ability to locate breaking balls better comes into play then you start to see even the minor cracks.  I have no doubt he'll adjust and be a beast but it's only those generational types like Trout and probably Soto and Acuna that ultimately make the league adjust to them before they need to be the ones that adjust even the slightest bit.  

Jones biggest issue with his old swing was that he ended up making a ton of weak contact.  They exploited all those moving parts.  I agree he'll be at AAA in 2020 and he'll do very well there.  

[Inside Pitch]

I think as far as maximizing value goes -- if they end up keeping Jones, Marsh, Adell and putting them all at AAA they end up way ahead.

I'm not against trading guys to improve the MLB roster -- I just happen to think this season more than any in the franchise's history calls for ownership to step up in a significant way and if it means taking some financial losses, so be it.  If it was me, and I was valued at 3.3 Billion dollars while potentially looking to get a stadium deal, I'd spend big knowing full well the farm will allow me to bring the salaries back down within a couple years and that a better park will re-energize a fanbase that has to be feeling a great deal of loser fatigue, both on and off the field.   This is Arte's offseason IMO.  Nobody can do more to help this team right now that he can.

I'd love to see what a AAA team with Suarez, Jones, Marsh, Adell, and Sandoval could do both as a unit and with some more AAA seasoning -- I mean, the old man of that bunch is Sandoval who is 22.  They are incredibly young.

Keep one of Thaiss/Ward up and have him be the Bour piece.  See what LaStella does in a year that may or may not see a juiced ball.   Allow for Jones and Marsh to force the Angels hand and move them up only when keeping them down serves no purpose.   We have a ton of lower level prospects with upside -- try to cash in on their tools and look for trade partners looking to restock and improve their farm systems but looking 2-3 years down the road.

Keep the readily available talent, because this team needs it now -- not in three years.