Rosenthal: Scioscia expected to step down at end of season

[MuellerTime]

2 minutes ago, robblin17 said:

Agree to disagree then. I don’t think Mike was calling agents, agree, obviously.

However, I think a manager and his fundamental ability to coach, promote his message throughout all levels, develop players, and get more out of his players is extremely valuable and important to the success of the ML team. 

I think MS’s fundamental baseball philosophy is and has been outdated. I think his ability to nurture and effectively develop young and NEW players to the organization is extremely lacking. 

 

All total bullshit. Managers don't win games, they lose them. Mike didn't cost us games. He got the most he could out of the 40 man roster every season. We got hosed in 05, simply weren't good enough the other playoff years. 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Dude you called Mike Carlos Beltran. A great player and borderline hall of famer. Maybe you actually live Mikey

What he was saying is Beltran and Scioscia are collectors of numbers through longevity and not truly great.  

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, robblin17 said:

Agree to disagree then. I don’t think Mike was calling agents, agree, obviously.

However, I think a manager and his fundamental ability to coach, promote his message throughout all levels, develop players, and get more out of his players is extremely valuable and important to the success of the ML team. 

I think MS’s fundamental baseball philosophy is and has been outdated. I think his ability to nurture and effectively develop young and NEW players to the organization is extremely lacking. 

See I see the players the Angels have signed over the last let’s say 10 years as a reason to believe he hasn’t really had the influence you think. We remember what Mike loved playing which was small ball. High batting average guys with speed and hit and run mentality. Guys who could throw the ball hard and Solid defense and a shut down bullpen we had Donnelly Shields K Rod and Percy. Now look at the Angels today. Name me one other guy besides Simmons and Trout who do any of that? Maybe Fletcher but he’s still developing. Albert is a shell no one works the counts and the pitchers are all hurt. Kansas City Royals won a couple years ago with that exact philosophy. Baseball playoffs have basically turned into what Mike loved which was get the starting pitcher through 5 or so and let the bullpen carry it from there. Our bullpen is a mess this year we no consistency that is unlike any Mike team we saw in days past. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Kevinb said:

See I see the players the Angels have signed over the last let’s say 10 years as a reason to believe he hasn’t really had the influence you think. We remember what Mike loved playing which was small ball. High batting average guys with speed and hit and run mentality. Guys who could throw the ball hard and Solid defense and a shut down bullpen we had Donnelly Shields K Rod and Percy. Now look at the Angels today. Name me one other guy besides Simmons and Trout who do any of that? Maybe Fletcher but he’s still developing. Albert is a shell no one works the counts and the pitchers are all hurt. Kansas City Royals won a couple years ago with that exact philosophy. Baseball playoffs have basically turned into what Mike loved which was get the starting pitcher through 5 or so and let the bullpen carry it from there. Our bullpen is a mess this year we no consistency that is unlike any Mike team we saw in days past. 

This sounds very familiar

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

What he was saying is Beltran and Scioscia are collectors of numbers through longevity and not truly great.  

I know what he’s saying. Instead of the negative tones behind such comment. I wanted to turn it into a positive and say that Beltran was an incredible player in his prime and played well into his career as did Mike. Both were great. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

You all realize how bad so many managers the Angels had before Scioscia were right? I really only remember Marcel Latchemen, Doug Radar, and Terry Collins.

I do think it’s time for a change. And I think it will be someone like Torii Hunter, someone Young and out of the blue. 

I was at the game the day that Terry Collins was fired. Having been to only a couple of games, it didn't strike me as strange when Joe Maddon took the lineup card to the home plate umpire, but there was a buzz in the crowd. Someone in my row with a radio told me what had happened.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

The rent a cop thing is bullshit, but I guess it’s warranted because you felt attacked.  Sorry again  I never felt I was attacking you tonight,  if you took it that way I apologize.   Have a good night.   

Not just tonight Scott.  every time I post here.  You’ve got to rip open the suit and show the halo on your chest to protect your team and come after me as bitter, or a troll, or an ex-fan. 

You don’t have to agree with my opinion. I’m here to talk about the team otherwise I wouldn’t be here.  I have no problems with you disagreeing with me 100% of the time.  I respect your opinion even if I don’t agree with it. 

[Dick B Back]

I’ve been a fan of the Halos since the days of Rigney and I am a fan of Sosh. He brought this franchise to a level of respectability never seen before along with their first WS championship.

I’ve got a couple quick questions:

1. Have you ever had a shitty boss before that you just couldn’t wait to leave and when he/she left, the replacement ended up being worse?

2. What manager saddled with the current crappy roster could do better than hanging around .500?

We shall see what we see but unless the players perform and the pitchers don’t keep coming down with dehydration, it doesn’t mean a rat’s ass who the manager is.

[robblin17]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

See I see the players the Angels have signed over the last let’s say 10 years as a reason to believe he hasn’t really had the influence you think. We remember what Mike loved playing which was small ball. High batting average guys with speed and hit and run mentality. Guys who could throw the ball hard and Solid defense and a shut down bullpen we had Donnelly Shields K Rod and Percy. Now look at the Angels today. Name me one other guy besides Simmons and Trout who do any of that? Maybe Fletcher but he’s still developing. Albert is a shell no one works the counts and the pitchers are all hurt. Kansas City Royals won a couple years ago with that exact philosophy. Baseball playoffs have basically turned into what Mike loved which was get the starting pitcher through 5 or so and let the bullpen carry it from there. Our bullpen is a mess this year we no consistency that is unlike any Mike team we saw in days past. 

And that is fair. But do you think this style of play is indicative of success the way the game has been trending? Because to me the game, and those having success, are not playing this type of baseball. I’m not saying everything is one size fits all but very few teams play this way and have success in today’s game. 

[kevinb]

4 minutes ago, robblin17 said:

Okay, I understand. No, I don’t think ARod. Honestly, I think Pujols would be great. Likelihood? Who knows. It’s just a quick name off the top of my head  

He has seen the analytical change in the game and has been extremely affected by it. He relates to young players. See his relationship with Trout. And, he has some god damn fire. Even with his HOF career I think he wants to prove even more with the way his name has been dragged through the mud the last few year. 

Interesting. Never thought of Pujols as a manager and the way he talks I don’t know if he’s very into analytics seeing as the way he plays he can’t get on base. But it’s interesting none the less. I’d make him manager but only to get him and his 25 mil a year off the payroll. Deal  

[ten ocho recon scout]

45 minutes ago, robblin17 said:

The point is that new blood has been needed for a long while.

Agreed. The roster and farm have been piss poor since 2015. The bullpen has been a mess since about 2010, save for 3 or so months in 2014.

Oh, you meant sosh.

@Jeff Fletcher has some good insight in another thread on here about the farm and roster. @Inside Pitch had some great info on how we got here.

As one of the few posters on here who routinely spends time with the guys on this team, as well as others, I laugh at a lot of the shit i read on here. 

Scioscia is the guy that makes the lineups. Period. He argues rules with umps. Period.

He doesnt draft, or develop. He had no hand in who puts in extra work, and whos out banging waitresses after a game. No hand in whos not sleeping because they knocked up the chick from hooters, whos bitching about a lineup spot because their agent wants them to get more rbi, who doesnt get along because one guy is the alpha and always makes the other guy feel like a pussy, etc etc.

You could take ANY manager in baseball, replace sosh with him, and wed have the same record. Because its trout, lesser good guys like simmons, the shell of pujols, then dogshit.

Sosh manages trout. And valbuena. 

Thats the explaination of why were a .500 team. Because trout keeps us from being horrible. If we traded trout for a pen, another 2 SPs, a leadoff hitter and 2 more MOTO guys, sosh would "manage" us a lot better...

[robblin17]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

Interesting. Never thought of Pujols as a manager and the way he talks I don’t know if he’s very into analytics seeing as the way he plays he can’t get on base. But it’s interesting none the less. I’d make him manager but only to get him and his 25 mil a year off the payroll. Deal  

The last part is the main motivation for this movement. Haha! 

[robblin17]

2 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Agreed. The roster and farm have been piss poor since 2015. The bullpen has been a mess since about 2010, save for 3 or so months in 2014.

Oh, you meant sosh.

@Jeff Fletcher has some good insight in another thread on here about the farm and roster. @Inside Pitch had some great info on how we got here.

As one of the few posters on here who routinely spends time with the guys on this team, as well as others, I laugh at a lot of the shit i read on here. 

Scioscia is the guy that makes the lineups. Period. He argues rules with umps. Period.

He doesnt draft, or develop. He had no hand in who puts in extra work, and whos out banging waitresses after a game. No hand in whos not sleeping because they knocked up the chick from hooters, whos bitching about a lineup spot because their agent wants them to get more rbi, who doesnt get along because one guy is the alpha and always makes the other guy feel like a pussy, etc etc.

You could take ANY manager in baseball, replace sosh with him, and wed have the same record. Because its trout, lesser good guys like simmons, the shell of pujols, then dogshit.

Sosh manages trout. And valbuena. 

Thats the explaination of why were a .500 team. Because trout keeps us from being horrible. If we traded trout for a pen, another 2 SPs, a leadoff hitter and 2 more MOTO guys, sosh would "manage" us a lot better...

Honest question, did Scioscia have anything to do with the trading of Napoli? 

[Troll Daddy]

[Inside Pitch]

10 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Power struggle which I believe was only in the dugout. I don’t believe Mike was calling agents trying to sign different players behind Dipotos back. A manager is in control of his locker room a gm chooses the players and manages the minor leagues. That’s at least my opinion of the things. Which is why I feel that a manager doesn’t matter in terms of wins and losses I think what a manager is really there for is communication on a daily basis of the 25 guys in the locker room and keeping them focused. 

There was no power struggle in the dugout... The former player turned GM went into the dugout and was told to go pound sand by the players.... 

Mike Scioscia never questioned the quality of the players handed to him.   Never voiced a negative opinion of the trades made.   Never once complained that the MLB staff was barred access to what was being done in the minors....   Meanwhile, anyone notice how all those mysterious leaks to the media started then ended once Jerry Dipoto left?   

There was a definite attempt to undermine during those days....  You have to be a real dullard to still not know who the guilty party was.... and for those people reading this while sporting a dunce cap.... It doesn't take insider access to figure that out... Unless you're a moron.

[Troll Daddy]

Just now, robblin17 said:

Honest question, did Scioscia have anything to do with the trading of Napoli? 

Honest answer NO

[Stradling]

Just now, robblin17 said:

Honest question, did Scioscia have anything to do with the trading of Napoli? 

Here’s a better question, does Napoli deserve any of the blame for being traded?   

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 minutes ago, robblin17 said:

And that is fair. But do you think this style of play is indicative of success the way the game has been trending? Because to me the game, and those having success, are not playing this type of baseball. I’m not saying everything is one size fits all but very few teams play this way and have success in today’s game. 

The game has been trending towards multiple front end SPs, shutdown pens, and multiple guys who hit 20 home runs.

 

 

 

 

Have we had any of that in years?

[robblin17]

1 minute ago, Troll Daddy said:

Honest answer NO

Case closed. Scioscia is absolved of all blame. 

 

 

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, robblin17 said:

And that is fair. But do you think this style of play is indicative of success the way the game has been trending? Because to me the game, and those having success, are not playing this type of baseball. I’m not saying everything is one size fits all but very few teams play this way and have success in today’s game. 

I don’t know. I think of it in terms of business. There isn’t one way to make money. Similarly there isn’t one way to win. I’ve said it before. But this team needs upgrades at a lot of positions and just a different manager isn’t going to magically turn this same group of guys into something different. We need a new C, 1st 2nd and 3rd baseman. Shut down relievers and a legit closer. Before we start wanting to compete with Boston Yankees and Astros. I think me or you could have Boston or the Yankees in the playoffs if we were there respective managers. At the end of the day players need to do what they are paid to do. 

[robblin17]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Here’s a better question, does Napoli deserve any of the blame for being traded?   

I don’t know the answer to that.

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 minutes ago, robblin17 said:

Honest question, did Scioscia have anything to do with the trading of Napoli? 

No idea. I know he didnt like Napoli. And that in itself is a very real critique of sosh. 

That said, its something like a 2 year glance out of 20.

I think he was an idiot for the napoli situation. And had we kept naps, not been stupid when lackey hit FA, this team would have been very different.

But the overall big picture is bigger than napoli vs mathis.

[robblin17]

Just now, Kevinb said:

I don’t know. I think of it in terms of business. There isn’t one way to make money. Similarly there isn’t one way to win. I’ve said it before. But this team needs upgrades at a lot of positions and just a different manager isn’t going to magically turn this same group of guys into something different. We need a new C, 1st 2nd and 3rd baseman. Shut down relievers and a legit closer. Before we start wanting to compete with Boston Yankees and Astros. I think me or you could have Boston or the Yankees in the playoffs if we were there respective managers. At the end of the day players need to do what they are paid to do. 

I agree. But I also don’t think a change in voice at the head/a philosophical change in the approach to baseball will hurt because it has not been working as it currently stands. 

 

[Tank]

the guys who went to bed early are going to have a lot to read in this thread in the morning.

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

There was no power struggle in the dugout... The former player turned GM went into the dugout and was told to go pound sand by the players.... 

"Thats how I roll...."

Great post as usual. One thing that is always lost in the mix on this site is how the players themselves backed sosh, not dipoto.

Hey AW! Trout took mikes side in that one!

 

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