The Official Angels Hot Stove - Winter Meetings - Rumors thread

[Troll Daddy]

8 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Tony Reagins isn't around to make that trade....don't think you're going to find a taker for his 2.25 million price tag....we'll see....

Mathis just signed for 2/4M 

[DMVol]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

You mean Bill Stoneman or Matt Klentak?
Those guys made basically the same trade in 2015 - three times. That's such a minimal amount of money it's easy for either team to find a way to divy it up. Not saying it will happen, but it isn't impossible.

"Divy it up" implies that we eat some or all of his contract, which was the likely option I listed earlier....either way, just don't think Pennington brings much to the table....if he weren't under contract for 2017, he'd be long gone....I don't disagree that it shouldn't be a big deal but with the "luxury tax hard cap" that Eppler has to (evidently) operate under, a couple of million has been significant, particularly preseason....the 3 amigos in 2015 came on in August so we didn't owe much, pro rated.....

[Inside Pitch]

19 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yea, because in the last ten years there have been so many of those.  Let's see we had Abreu get 8 games as a 38 year old.  Victorino?  I guess you can pretend McDonald got regular at bats.  Who else?  I'm sure there are a couple of others, but to claim this is the Angel way is just you wanting to see something that isn't there.  

Was Nando even alive when that actually really was the Angel way?

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Was Nando even alive when that actually really was the Angel way?

If so he was a baby because that was the way in the 80's and 90's.. The last ten years, not at all.  

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

If so he was a baby because that was the way in the 80's and 90's.. The last ten years, not at all.  

Even the 90s didn't have as much of that.   Eddie Murray was like 100 when they brought him and Belcher was 37-38 -- those are the two that come to mind first..  But it really has been a long time since it was a regular thing.

[totdprods]

27 minutes ago, DMVol said:

"Divy it up" implies that we eat some or all of his contract, which was the likely option I listed earlier....either way, just don't think Pennington brings much to the table....if he weren't under contract for 2017, he'd be long gone....I don't disagree that it shouldn't be a big deal but with the "luxury tax hard cap" that Eppler has to (evidently) operate under, a couple of million has been significant, particularly preseason....the 3 amigos in 2015 came on in August so we didn't owe much, pro rated.....

I think the three amigos cost more combined than Pennington will this year. All I'm saying is I don't think they see Cliff Pennington as a platoon-mate if they bring in Utley, nor would Cliff Pennington prevent us from making an additional bench improvement. And there is zero evidence that the 'luxury tax hard cap' exists and that Billy has to operate under it, especially if it was just a matter of a few million. We virtually went over the luxury tax in the middle of the year last year once Chacin and Lincecum were brought on board - we either just missed the mark or managed to shed enough to avoid it - so I refuse to believe they wouldn't top it for a few million this year if necessary, especially with it looking very likely they get back under it next year. They will also be in a good position to shed payroll midseason this year - Maybin, Escobar, Street, Nolasco, and Chavez all could be dealt away to clear out some of that obligation. 

Many on here were against Josh Harrison because he looked more like a bench player than an everyday 2B. I could envision a roster where Josh Harrison and Chase Utley split 2B, with Josh also being a capable back-up at SS and LF/RF. Josh can also platoon some with Maybin if necessary. He wouldn't be much of a CF, but Maybin can cover that on the couple days Trout needs off. With Harrison dealt, SRod now in Atlanta, and Kang facing legal issues galore, Pittsburgh may actually take Pennington back in a trade - obviously not as a centerpiece, but as a throw in. There are ways it could work.

[DMVol]

6 minutes ago, totdprods said:

....And there is zero evidence that the 'luxury tax hard cap' exists and that Billy has to operate under it, especially if it was just a matter of a few million. We virtually went over the luxury tax in the middle of the year last year once Chacin and Lincecum were brought on board - we either just missed the mark or managed to shed enough to avoid it - so I refuse to believe they wouldn't top it for a few million this year if necessary, especially with it looking very likely they get back under it next year. 

t: I like your posts, a lot, not trying to start something because your analysis is usually very good, but you're off track here....zero evidence?  Hell, it's been life for the last three years...."virtually" went over the tax isn't the same as going over the tax...."managed to shed enough to avoid it" is an acknowledgement that there is a hard cap???.... Confusing post is confusing....

[totdprods]

21 minutes ago, DMVol said:

t: I like your posts, a lot, not trying to start something because your analysis is usually very good, but you're off track here....zero evidence?  Hell, it's been life for the last three years...."virtually" went over the tax isn't the same as going over the tax...."managed to shed enough to avoid it" is an acknowledgement that there is a hard cap???.... Confusing post is confusing....

Arte and the FO have said they'd go over the luxury tax under the right circumstances. They have never flatly said they refuse to go over the luxury tax or that it is a hard line. If it was, they wouldn't have thrown money at Lincecum last year when the season already looked lost, a signing that many reported would put them over the tax. If they were willing to do that then, last year, why wouldn't they again consider it now? 

There's a big difference blowing past the line on a 7/$140m deal and multiple 1-2/yr deals and going over by a few mil. 

That linked article offers a very good refresher on Arte and Eppler's stance on the luxury tax and how it affects the Angels. Going over for Utley, a complimentary bench bat, eating Pennington salary, and a couple flier arms is well within reason.

[Docwaukee]

In my opinion, the only reason they considered going over the CBT was because of the discrepancy it created on what was our true payroll.  But the target is still the true number of dollars going out.  Going over the threshold and paying the tax likely isn't as relevant anymore because there is no longer a discrepancy.  He's never really stated his payroll max, but just look at the trend.  It hovers between 150-160.  I could see there being a little juice with Hamilton coming off next year, but to get anywhere near the CBT, our payroll would have to be 180+mil.  Not a chance that is happening.  

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

In my opinion, the only reason they considered going over the CBT was because of the discrepancy it created on what was our true payroll.  But the target is still the true number of dollars going out.  Going over the threshold and paying the tax likely isn't as relevant anymore because there is no longer a discrepancy.  He's never really stated his payroll max, but just look at the trend.  It hovers between 150-160.  I could see there being a little juice with Hamilton coming off next year, but to get anywhere near the CBT, our payroll would have to be 180+mil.  Not a chance that is happening.  

I think there is also a realization between Arte and the current FO that the only way they can have a shot at contending right now is through low to moderate spending.  We spent our way into this mess, and since there's no farm, we have to spend our way out if we want to contend. They just can't do it with long contracts for now. It isn't hard to get payroll back where they are comfortable on multiple one-year deals. Players on short contracts are also far more tradeable midseason. Eppler also said in that recap of his meeting with season ticket holders that they acknowledge their financial clout gives them the ability to counter the current lack of the a farm by eating salary from other teams and, while it was more specifically directed at amateur drafts and international spending, they would spend over the line and pay penalties right up to the point where it costs them picks or players.  

They're just being very, very particular and cautious with when they tread those waters. But there is more evidence that that are willing to do that than not at all.

[totdprods]

Apologies for bringing all the luxury tax stuff into the thread. I'll hold off now. I just don't think it is as hard a line as we think. Still don't think they will go far over if at all, so it is likely moot, but it shouldn't eliminate us from thinking of scenarios in which it occurs.

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I think there is also a realization between Arte and the current FO that the only way they can have a shot at contending right now is through low to moderate spending.  We spent our way into this mess, and since there's no farm, we have to spend our way out if we want to contend. They just can't do it with long contracts for now. It isn't hard to get payroll back where they are comfortable on multiple one-year deals. Eppler also said in that recap of his meeting with season ticket holders that they acknowledge their financial clout gives them the ability to counter the current lack of the a farm by eating salary from other teams and, while it was more specifically directed at amateur drafts and international spending, they would spend over the line and pay penalties right up to the point where it costs them picks or players.  

They're just being very, very particular and cautious with when they tread those waters. But there is more evidence that that are willing to do that than not at all.

and now that's built into the total budget which mean even less flexibility on spending in other areas.  he might take it to 165 or 170, but I doubt he's going over that.  

he's not taking on any debt.  he's made that part of it quite clear.  I disagree about that evidence.  What I have seen is that he is very disciplined about his budget.  money going out isn't going to exceed money coming in.  It is what it is.  I'm not a huge fan of it in that I'd like to see him loosen it up, but he isn't going to.  

[Richard]

Eppler speaks:

 

 

[Chuck]

Here's an interesting guy to think about. Padres Carlos Asuaje. Hit 321/378/473 at AAA last year. Bats left Stuck behind Schimpf.

— Jeff Fletcher (@JeffFletcherOCR) December 5, 2016

[totdprods]

Pedro Moura‏ @pedromoura

The Angels hired a young man named Andrew Ball to be their new director of baseball operations. He comes from the Tampa Bay Rays.

 

[totdprods]

I would love either Carlos Asuaje or Greg Garcia.

[Chuck]

I would rather go after someone with more upside than Garcia, who doesn't possess much power or speed. Just a defensive guy with a little OBP. 

[Chuck]

Would love to land Ryan Schimpf somehow. 

35 HR's between AAA and the big leagues, plays 2B and hits left. 

I wonder what it would take?

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I would rather go after someone with more upside than Garcia, who doesn't possess much power or speed. Just a defensive guy with a little OBP. 

He'd also come much cheaper than Asauje though I think. If I recall, our 2B posted a .275 OBP last year. Garcia has a .366 career OBP and was .393 last year. If we just boosted OBP and defense at 2B, it'd be huge, especially hitting #9 before Yunel and Cameron.

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Would love to land Ryan Schimpf somehow. 

35 HR's between AAA and the big leagues, plays 2B and hits left. 

I wonder what it would take?

Pads are awfully starved off power. They'd want to move Spangenberg, Solarte, or Asuaje first. They would want pitching likely, and we'd maybe match up depending on who they wanted. I think they'd want way too much for Schimpf though. Probably ask for Meyer or something.

[beatlesrule]

 

This vid is going to be the most entertaining thing over the holidays for Angel fans.

[totdprods]

Now if the Padres wanted to talk one of Schimpf, Solarte, and Asauje plus Travis Jankowski, I'd start thinking closer about what pitching I could give up. He'd be a good 4th OF.

[Docwaukee]

31 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Pedro Moura‏ @pedromoura

The Angels hired a young man named Andrew Ball to be their new director of baseball operations. He comes from the Tampa Bay Rays.

 

I wonder if it's his mom or dad who drop him off at the park everyday.  or does he ride his schwinn?  

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I think Bach's orchestra of stuff is a little out of tune.  

Acquire Turner, and you have Bach Turner Overdrive.

[VariousCrap]

Utley better be a last case scenario.  If the Dodgers thought he had anything left, they'd be bringing him back.  They are letting him go because they know there isn't much left in the tank.