Cespedes anyone?

[disarcina]

he signed that big contract with the Mets........I don't see him being moved with that contract -- he's one year older -- had an OK season but I think teams may blink at the price here plus having to give up players........

I'd much rather go after someone like Angel Pagan who could play some LF and also DH -- much depends on how much 1B Pujols can play next year -- I expect NOT MUCH.

In fact, I see Pujols' glove retiring well before he does -- perhaps as soon as next year.

But Pagan -- who I expect will spark the SF Giants in the post-season may get an extension offer there --- has had considerable DL time the past three years but is always a force when he is in the line up.  He could make a difference for the Halos platooning in LF and some DH time.

I think he would be a better fit now than Cespedes -- Cespedes is a player I really like but the time to sign him was last year - not inheriting some other team's contract.

[Mark68]

15 hours ago, disarcina said:

he signed that big contract with the Mets........I don't see him being moved with that contract -- he's one year older -- had an OK season but I think teams may blink at the price here plus having to give up players........

I'd much rather go after someone like Angel Pagan who could play some LF and also DH -- much depends on how much 1B Pujols can play next year -- I expect NOT MUCH.

In fact, I see Pujols' glove retiring well before he does -- perhaps as soon as next year.

But Pagan -- who I expect will spark the SF Giants in the post-season may get an extension offer there --- has had considerable DL time the past three years but is always a force when he is in the line up.  He could make a difference for the Halos platooning in LF and some DH time.

I think he would be a better fit now than Cespedes -- Cespedes is a player I really like but the time to sign him was last year - not inheriting some other team's contract.

His Mets contract includes an opt-out option after one year, which is what he'll most likely take based on this year having been the best of his career.

He may not age that badly considering that he spent most of his 20s playing in Cuba (not sure how long their seasons are--but I doubt they're anywhere near the length of major league seasons). I can certainly see him being pretty productive well into his mid-30s.

Whether he's worth the money will depend on the amount of money he wants.

[ukyah]

i think the angels should go full yankees and dodgers and go way over the "cap", but this year is a shit year to do that.  the arms that they need so many of aren't available this year in FA anyway, so...whatever.

[totdprods]

55 minutes ago, ukyah said:

i think the angels should go full yankees and dodgers and go way over the "cap", but this year is a shit year to do that.  the arms that they need so many of aren't available this year in FA anyway, so...whatever.

No reason to employ something like that unless you have a crop of top prospects close to contributing or go in heavy on the intl' FA side too. If you're going to spend big money on players, do it when you can add across the board internationally as well. Spending that much usually limits your ability to draft/sigh amateurs, so do it all at once. That way you've got a crop of youngsters to offset the cost and some trade currency in case you work yourself into a corner with all the FAs.

[disarcina]

the 'full' Yankees / Dodgers does not always work as team find out.

Smarter pick ups rather than huge contract F/A signings make more sense.

The 'full Yankee' approach wound up with the Yankees jettisoning some of their older / big contract guy -- am sure the Cubs gave up a boat load of prospect talent to get Chapman but he's sure paying off for the Cubs (and right now as I post this, too) and probably will end up being a favorable deal for the Yankees as well.

I think the days of breaking the bank for that one or two big F/A signings is over (for the Halos anyway).

I'd rather not ink those huge contracts but instead of breaking the bank, spend a bit more to acquire that quality bench depth MIF, that fourth OF'er (in our case a LF'er I guess) that pen depth guy, that 24th 25th roster spot -- that's where the contending teams tend to have the guys that make a difference PLUS that one rotation ace who tends to be the 'stopper' to avoid prolonged slumps.

[Homebrewer]

I'd rather have Puig.

[Guest]

Anything is better than the status quo.

[Angelsjunky]

No way. He's a good player who will be paid like he's a great one, which is the last thing the Angels need to do. I'd rather see Eppler spend that $25M/yr, 6/$150M elsewhere or not at all.

[papawealey]

Pass.

[Tank]

i don't mind a cheap option as long as they're productive at the plate and can field decently. but last year was a mess, and none of our cheap options really worked out well. i'd rather go with a known quantity like cespedes over the 37 different "cheap option" guys we tried last year.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

If Marte can be taught to play an average to above average LF, I would be OK with him in LF next year. He had 15 HR in only 285 AB. he could possibly hit 30 HR over a full season with at least 600 AB.

Also I wouldn't be opposed to signing Cespedes to a 3-5 yr. deal either.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

On 10/6/2016 at 9:52 AM, mulwin444 said:

would score some runs but a 34-35-ish Cespedes would probably suck the last two years of the deal.

This is the issue. He is approaching the "Vernon Wells Zone", during which a player's production can go off the cliff without warning.

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

This is the issue. He is approaching the "Vernon Wells Zone", during which a player's production can go off the cliff without warning.

Exactly. Every contract right now has to be scrutinized in regards to how badly it would hurt us if it went south, and at this point in time, another 5/100+ would be deadly.

Even if it doesn't happen, just the small chance that it does and its effects are enough reason to avoid it.

[DCAngelsFan]

Before starting to read this thread, it barely occurred to me to think we might sign Cespedes.

Now, after reading all these perfectly rational and sound reasons why Cespedes would be a terrible signing for us has, to my horror, convinced me that signing him is precisely what we'll do ...

Been an Angel fan too long ...

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

I'd rather Eppy spend $48M across five 4 - year deals..........LF, 2B, RP, RP, SP, 

[DMVol]

16 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

I'd rather Eppy spend $48M across five 4 - year deals..........LF, 2B, RP, RP, SP, 

^^^This^^^....Think of all the holes we could have plugged with Hamilton's 125 million or Wells' 80 million....and we won't start with Pujols' quarter of a billion....

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

On 10/9/2016 at 4:55 PM, Vegas Halo Fan said:

This is the issue. He is approaching the "Vernon Wells Zone", during which a player's production can go off the cliff without warning.

Vernon Wells production didn't go off a cliff he was simply a league average player who had a few good seasons that he got massively overpaid for and in one case made his terrible contract move-able via trade.  Wells was also terribly inconsistent year to year while Cespedes has been much more consistent.  

As to the question for a 3 year deal I'd be a fan but if Cespedes opts out he'll get more than that and the Angels should stay away. 

[Richard]

26 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

I'd rather Eppy spend $48M across five 4 - year deals..........LF, 2B, RP, RP, SP, 

Think you can acquire a Reddick and neil walker with that budget and still have money left over for the rest.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

4 hours ago, Richard said:

Think you can acquire a Reddick and neil walker with that budget and still have money left over for the rest.

at 12-14Mper that would = 24-28M correct? That would leave me 20M for the 3 arms! or 6.66M each... And I would not touch Neil Walker after his back surgery!

[Vegas Halo Fan]

6 hours ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

Vernon Wells production didn't go off a cliff he was simply a league average player who had a few good seasons that he got massively overpaid for and in one case made his terrible contract move-able via trade.

He hit .273 with 30 HR the year before the Angels acquired him. The year that he arrived, .218 and 15. I would say that's off the cliff.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

14 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

He hit .273 with 30 HR the year before the Angels acquired him. The year that he arrived, .218 and 15. I would say that's off the cliff.

In 2006 he hit .303, 32 HR's, had an OPS of 0.899 and was rewarded with a 7 year 126M contract.  In 2007 he thanked Toronto by hitting .245, 16 HR's and had an OPS of 0.706.  Over the course of the 7 year 126M contract he had an OPS+ of 95 which means he was below league average.  His best year of that contract was 2010 which convinced the Angels to acquire a guy who a year earlier was considered one of the worst contracts in all of baseball.  He didn't fall off a cliff he was consistently inconsistent and barely above league average for his 15 year career.  Cespedes has a career OPS+ of 125 and has never posted an OPS+ below 100 over the course of a full season.  If you think he's going to fall off a cliff or his production will decline because of his age that's one thing but comparing him to Wells isn't a valid comparison.

[totdprods]

I think it's likelier they take on a big contract - coupled with a top prospect -than sign someone to one. Just not sure who. Braun comes to mind, but he's been fairly productive so he doesn't really match the salary dump deal where a top prospect is attached to negate the salary. Kemp? Choo?

[totdprods]

I think it's likelier they take on a big contract - coupled with a top prospect -than sign someone to one. Just not sure who. Braun comes to mind, but he's been fairly productive so he doesn't really match the salary dump deal where a top prospect is attached to negate the salary. Kemp? Choo? HanRam? Sandoval? Rusney Castillo? Yasmany Tomas?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

1 hour ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

IIf you think he's going to fall off a cliff or his production will decline because of his age that's one thing but comparing him to Wells isn't a valid comparison.

Because no player precipitously declines in his mid 30s.

[Angel Oracle]

On 10/8/2016 at 9:39 AM, ukyah said:

i think the angels should go full yankees and dodgers and go way over the "cap", but this year is a shit year to do that.  the arms that they need so many of aren't available this year in FA anyway, so...whatever.

Arms in FA are one of the toughest things to gauge.   For every Lester or Maddux success story, there are many more FA pitchers that flame out well before their deal is up.

It's best to develop as many pitchers as you can, and work from the excess.