Cespedes anyone?

[Angel Oracle]

On 10/11/2016 at 3:12 PM, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

at 12-14Mper that would = 24-28M correct? That would leave me 20M for the 3 arms! or 6.66M each... And I would not touch Neil Walker after his back surgery!

+1

Plus Reddick would have to be platooned ultimately, because he's as bad vs LHP as Cerrano is vs the curveball.

[Richard]

On 10/11/2016 at 3:12 PM, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

at 12-14Mper that would = 24-28M correct? That would leave me 20M for the 3 arms! or 6.66M each... And I would not touch Neil Walker after his back surgery!

Think the season ending back surgery could help bring his number down to a 1 year deal. Definitely worth a flier when comparing the rest of the 2nd base market. 

[ukyah]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Arms in FA are one of the toughest things to gauge.   For every Lester or Maddux success story, there are many more FA pitchers that flame out well before their deal is up.

It's best to develop as many pitchers as you can, and work from the excess.

that's all fine and dandy, but that doesn't do shit for the angels over the next couple years. the angels need some midrange FA starters and some good relievers to work out. 

signing an ace would be fantastic. signing some reliable arms would be even better.

[Angel Oracle]

I'd be happy with one or two short term (2 years) signings of FA starters.   It's those long pitching contracts that can many times blow up on a team.

[floplag]

On 10/6/2016 at 10:34 AM, ScottyA_MWAH said:

With Cespedes, you'd be making the same mistake as Pujols and Hamilton. Signing a player and paying him for what he accomplished in his 20's, not what he's going to accomplish in his 30's.

Free agency is a good tool to use with a protected pick, but it has to be the right sort of player. Preferably one still in his 20's, that's multi-dimensional and can be slotted in different places in the lineup or at different positions.

You may not find a player that checks all those boxes, but maybe one close. Fowler comes to mind.

You know i read this one a lot, the whole paying for the 30s for what they did in their 20s thing, but those kinds of players dont become available in their 20s so the point is moot.   

I've long wanted him but 2 years later i think that ship has sailed and we would be paying far more for far less at this point in time.  If we were going to do this we should have done it when the Mets did, at this point it doesnt really matter unless we are actually going to try to contend in 2017 and i dont think we are so it would be wasted money. 

Then again it really depends on whether or not the front office cares at this point considering they get their 3 mil good bad or ugly. 

[Stradling]

This isn't directed at simply you Flop, but this whole 3 million fan thing is dumb.  He may have sold 3 million tickets, but not only is the actual number far far less (it is always less), but it is nowhere near how it once was.  If you have to greatly reduce prices for your product mid-season, ($49 for 17 games), then did you really sell 3 million tickets?  Sure you can hang your hat on a nice round number, but it is far different than the 3 million fans of 5-10 years ago.  Not to mention all the lost revenue from empty seats.  I posted a link saying the average fan spends $49 or something like that for their ticket and concessions.  So that is roughly $20-30 per person that doesn't show up in lost revenue.  

[VariousCrap]

I said this last year and I I'll say it again this year:

The Angels do not need to have a "big splash" signing this offseason.  Spending all your money on one big name isn't going to help this team other than in the headlines.  Instead, I'd much rather the Angels sign numerous moderate FA's to fill their needs.  Going this route would be far more beneficial for the team.

[Angel Oracle]

And it buys time while the farm gets rebuilt.

[floplag]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

This isn't directed at simply you Flop, but this whole 3 million fan thing is dumb.  He may have sold 3 million tickets, but not only is the actual number far far less (it is always less), but it is nowhere near how it once was.  If you have to greatly reduce prices for your product mid-season, ($49 for 17 games), then did you really sell 3 million tickets?  Sure you can hang your hat on a nice round number, but it is far different than the 3 million fans of 5-10 years ago.  Not to mention all the lost revenue from empty seats.  I posted a link saying the average fan spends $49 or something like that for their ticket and concessions.  So that is roughly $20-30 per person that doesn't show up in lost revenue.  

Very True, but the revenue of that in 3 mil sold is still a lot higher than it would be with 2 mil sold for example.  
We put out a terrible product this season... horrendously bad bordering on unwatchable, yet the stadium never looked empty or vast areas of open seats so... while the true number might have been less in terms of actual attendance, it wasnt that much so i dont think so that money was getting spent.
Just my 2 cents is that i dont think they felt the pinch in the pocket book and are content to ride it out till the bad money is gone... of course by then Trout is past his prime too but gotta have something for us to watch i guess, lol 

[Homebrewer]

Reports today that he will opt out.. Would be nice, but it'll never happen. Not in the DNA.

[19HALO71]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/10/yoenis-cespedes-opt-out-mets-contract-rumors.html

Thanks Homebrewer!

Go Halos!!!

[Angel Oracle]

This is a tough one to predict.   He doesn't have the wear and tear that 31 year-olds usually have (only 5 full MLB seasons).   

How much will teams be willing to offer him?   Say 5 years/$125 million?

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

This is a tough one to predict.   He doesn't have the wear and tear that 31 year-olds usually have (only 5 full MLB seasons).   

How much will teams be willing to offer him?   Say 5 years/$125 million?

Yeah, I imagine 5/125...I can even see someone offering 6/150 though. I wouldn't go that high.
I actually think Cespedes' most appealing factor is he is the safest big splash out there. He may not be the .835 30/100 guy we'd be paying for, but he's probably going to at least be productive over his contract length, at least far more productive than our last 3.5 years worth of LFers. Is 'productive enough' worth that contract? No, but what contract is these days? It wouldn't be the route I would go, but if we were to sign him, I wouldn't be disappointed. He'd be a safer bet than Desmond, Reddick, or any of the budget LFs - but they would at least cost far less.

[19HALO71]

I would hope, that IF the Angels were to get involved with Cespedes that they would incorporate some kind of opt out. They could offer him a big signing bonus and basically buy themselves a third year team opt out. This would protect the organization from having another Hamilton/VW type situation again. Not saying that I have the contract answers, but he is the type of player that could really have a positive impact on both sides of the ball. We may very well have the best defensive outfield in baseball and a pretty good offensive one as well.

Go Halos!!!

[totdprods]

24 minutes ago, 19HALO71 said:

I would hope, that IF the Angels were to get involved with Cespedes that they would incorporate some kind of opt out. They could offer him a big signing bonus and basically buy themselves a third year team opt out. This would protect the organization from having another Hamilton/VW type situation again. Not saying that I have the contract answers, but he is the type of player that could really have a positive impact on both sides of the ball. We may very well have the best defensive outfield in baseball and a pretty good offensive one as well.

Go Halos!!!

It'll be interesting to see if he gets another opt-out. I think there are several budget options that are so much cheaper and stand a chance at being enough improvement to negate the additional impact a 5/125 guy brings. I think Jefry Marte could come within striking distance of Cespedes' offensive line - not an exact match for sure, but close enough to offset the hundred-something million dollar distance. But if they are committed to spending big this offseason, he's by and far the best 'big splash' option, at least offensively. I'd still prefer they threw that money at Jansen or Chapman as I think their impact would be felt more in the pen than Cespedes' in the line-up, and they'll run a little cheaper on fewer years. 

I also think our current payroll probably only has room for one 'big splash' over the next two seasons, and I would be far more interested in going after one of the free agents SPs next season. Arrieta, Darvish are FAs, Shohei Otani could be posted, Cueto and Tanaka have opt outs, and guys like Chatwood, Cobb, Pineda, Tyson Ross, Danny Duffy, Eovaldi, and Daniel Tillman are all young and talented or durable enough to take a big step forward. So much more to choose from in talent, upside, and consistency, over this year's big money guys - Cespedes, Trumbo, Reddick, Ramos, Chapman, Jansen.

[IEAngelsfan]

57 minutes ago, 19HALO71 said:

I would hope, that IF the Angels were to get involved with Cespedes that they would incorporate some kind of opt out. They could offer him a big signing bonus and basically buy themselves a third year team opt out. This would protect the organization from having another Hamilton/VW type situation again. Not saying that I have the contract answers, but he is the type of player that could really have a positive impact on both sides of the ball. We may very well have the best defensive outfield in baseball and a pretty good offensive one as well.

Go Halos!!!

I don't think Cespedes would agree to a 3rd year team option, even with a big signing bonus.  By the beginning of the 3rd year, he'd be turning 34 and would either be into or entering into his decline stage.  I believe this would be his last big contract and would want at least 5 guaranteed years, probably something along the lines of what totdprods mentioned (5/$125M).

Is this the risk the Angels want to take?  Did they not learn with all the other aging players they've signed?

Based on what Eppler has done so far, I'm inclined to think they won't sign him.

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 10/12/2016 at 7:17 PM, ukyah said:

that's all fine and dandy, but that doesn't do shit for the angels over the next couple years. the angels need some midrange FA starters and some good relievers to work out. 

signing an ace would be fantastic. signing some reliable arms would be even better.

I miss the days we nabbed the paul byrds, and garlands, and pinieros. Nothing that shook the world, but reliable and cheap.

[totdprods]

8 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I miss the days we nabbed the paul byrds, and garlands, and pinieros. Nothing that shook the world, but reliable and cheap.

The problem is those guys aren't cheap anymore. Folks caught onto their value, and started offering them a lot of money.

[DMVol]

8 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I miss the days we nabbed the paul byrds, and garlands, and pinieros. Nothing that shook the world, but reliable and cheap.

Garland came in a trade for OCabrera, I think....but point made....seems like it's either Pujols and Hamilton or Pennington, Nava and Gentry....no in between....

[Chuck]

I am all for signing Cespedes. Move him to cleanup and push Pujols down in the order.

3B Escobar or Marte 

2B Walker (sign Neil Walker if the Mets do not give him a qualifying offer)

CF Trout

LF Cespedes

RF Calhoun

DH Pujols

1B Marte or Cron (let them battle it out in ST)

SS Simmons

C  Bandy/Perez

 

[Homebrewer]

26 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I am all for signing Cespedes. Move him to cleanup and push Pujols down in the order.

3B Escobar or Marte 

2B Walker (sign Neil Walker if the Mets do not give him a qualifying offer)

CF Trout

LF Cespedes

RF Calhoun

DH Pujols

1B Marte or Cron (let them battle it out in ST)

SS Simmons

C  Bandy/Perez

 

Not a bad looking lineup..

[Chuck]

Yep... We get a lefty bat hitting second (or we could move Walker to 5th and put Calhoun 2nd). 

Whoever loses the starting 1B job between Marte and Cron goes to the bench. Either way you get a power bat off the bench. 

[totdprods]

Just now, Homebrewer said:

Not a bad looking lineup..

Great lineup but it probably eats up all of our payroll without adding any pitching, and at least one of those guys will cost a draft pick. It'll be a good offense, but we already had a solid offense.

[DailyHalo]

How about Nick Markakis or splurging a bit and going after Carlos Gonzalez?

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, DailyHalo said:

How about Nick Markakis or splurging a bit and going after Carlos Gonzalez?

I think Markakis would be a great target and could be had fairly cheaply. Cargo's price on the other hand will probably will be a little steep for the drop-off his production will have leaving Coors. It wouldn't deter me, but I don't think it's likely.