Looking Like We'll be Sellers at Trade Deadline

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

13 hours ago, Stradling said:

I hope for one of two things, either they make a miraculous comeback, which is highly unlikely or a ton of empty seats this summer.  I want Arte to see how we feel.  

This is a serious question Strad.  Are you going to give up your season tickets and skip opening day?  

I haven't been going.  Arte certainly sees how I feel.  But he sleeps easy. 

You keep giving him money.  It's the fans like you that will ultimately make Arte see how "we" feel. 

Until longtime season ticket holders give up their prized status and elite "I've been a season ticket holder since..." Nothing will change.  BTW for all those people living by that motto, all they are really saying is "I've been a sucker and paying for crap longer than you." 

It's easier to call out others (and I'm not saying you're doing the calling) about not showing up to show Arte how fans feel.  Some of those people pay big money and their asses are there virtually every night. 

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

4 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Except that the Cubs didn't start there -- that was the last thing they did.  What they did do was rebuild their farm system from the bottom up and traded away everything that was expensive.   But let's not let reality get in the way of the narrative..

The Cubs have been rebuilding since 1906 or whenever.  I won't be around for a decent Angels team in 2126. 

[Stradling]

26 minutes ago, SoToSpeaks said:

This is a serious question Strad.  Are you going to give up your season tickets and skip opening day?  

I haven't been going.  Arte certainly sees how I feel.  But he sleeps easy. 

You keep giving him money.  It's the fans like you that will ultimately make Arte see how "we" feel. 

Until longtime season ticket holders give up their prized status and elite "I've been a season ticket holder since..." Nothing will change.  BTW for all those people living by that motto, all they are really saying is "I've been a sucker and paying for crap longer than you." 

It's easier to call out others (and I'm not saying you're doing the calling) about not showing up to show Arte how fans feel.  Some of those people pay big money and their asses are there virtually every night. 

I did give up my season tickets, I don't have them this year.  As far as opening day, you know that answer.  That's a tradition that's deeper than the quality of the team and my issues with Arte.  

[budice0]

"Looking ahead to 2022"...

[19HALO71]

Come on everyone!!!

Remember in 1995 when the Angels had a 13 game lead going into September. We lost the division to the Mariners.

It's only June, we have plenty of time to get back into this. Don't give up yet, it's going to be an exciting season. We got this!!!

Go Halos!!!

 

[fan_since79]

14 hours ago, Dochalo said:

What an unbelievable turd sandwich this has been. We are essentially done for 2017 as well.  I'm getting more and more inclined to want them to trade Simmons and Calhoun for a quick reload so we have a shot in 2020. That's a huge risk but right now we've got nothing to make me think it's gonna get better in the next two years. 

On the other hand...we finished 2001 losing 19 of our final 21 games, started 2002 with a franchise-worst record of 6-14, then won the World Series.

Stranger things have happened. Here's my 'wild optimism' scenario:

Shoemaker win 20 games and a Cy Young award. Lincecum wins 16, Tropeano 15, Santiago rights the ship; Skaggs wins comeback player of the year; Morin/Bedrosian/Street are lock-down in the bullpen; we get a left fielder who can hit; Trout has an all-time monster season; Pujols discovers the fountain of youth and goes .270/.340/.520 with 40 HR, 100 RBI; Cron hits 35 HR and drives in 90; Escobar, Petit, and the rest play out of their minds, and Scioscia pulls all the right strings.

How's that for a 2017 fantasy?

[stormngt]

8 hours ago, Dochalo said:

You only bag MS if you think that his influence on the direction of the franchise isn't working.  Because his skill as an actual manager is fine.  Good in fact.  Really good if he has the type of team that suits his strengths. It's his influence beyond that which some could call into question.  Frankly, we don't really know the extent of that so it's hard to speculate, but if the powers that be decided his influence in those areas wasn't something that helped the team then it would be time to move on.  If he were just a manager like Francona and Madden then he might actually be more valuable.  It's the other stuff that could lead to him being sacked.  Which I find ironic.  

Fact his his power beyond his managerial role has been nothing but speculation.  It could be pure fantasy as far as anyone really knows.

[ksangel]

If they trade an Escobar, Simmons, Street or Calhoun how do they replace them for next year and stay competitive?  There's nothing at AAA or AA and little in the 2017 free agent market.

 

The way Scioscia likes Martes' bat right now if he stays hot, can see Cron going on the trade block and maybe Smith and some other spare parts like Nava, Gentry...etc.  They won't get much back for any of them.

 

Pitching wise how can they trade anyone including Santiago with all the injuries?  Who replaces them?  Huff ? Kendrick? Nate Smith? Not much pitching help at AAA or AA.

 

 

[totdprods]

25 minutes ago, ksangel said:

If they trade an Escobar, Simmons, Street or Calhoun how do they replace them for next year and stay competitive?  There's nothing at AAA or AA and little in the 2017 free agent market.

 

The way Scioscia likes Martes' bat right now if he stays hot, can see Cron going on the trade block and maybe Smith and some other spare parts like Nava, Gentry...etc.  They won't get much back for any of them.

 

Pitching wise how can they trade anyone including Santiago with all the injuries?  Who replaces them?  Huff ? Kendrick? Nate Smith? Not much pitching help at AAA or AA.

 

 

Escobar could be replaced by Cowart, Marte, Kubitza, or even Petit (more of a Pennington replacement in my mind) for remainder of this season and going into next, and I'd be totally open to that. Simmons I'd keep. No need to move him as of right now. Street I would also likely keep. He likes it here, he's affordable, he could be dealt next year if we're out of it, but I think his presence at the back-end is far too important while we rebuild and develop a new pen. Calhoun I would move if we received a huge return, and I think we would. He's literally the only player me we have aside from Trout that could bring back multiple players who could make an impact immediately. I'd like to say we could sign Reddick or a vet stopgap like Jon Jay this offseason and hope for a .725+ OPS, but we also saw that not happen last year.

Unless they dramatically change over the next couple weeks, I hold onto both Santiago and Shoemaker, especially if GR/Heaney get TJ. As you said, someone needs to pitch, and I don't think either would return equivalent value relative to the team's needs right now. If Lincecum pitches well, I think the team aggressively pursues extending him or re-signing him. Chacin as well, to a lesser degree. 

Eppler isn't going to undergo a full fire-sale. I think he will construct next year's time similarly to this year's team. 

[Homebrewer]

Free Agency is the only way this team will become competitive any time soon. There really isn't anything in the current system to trade with.

Some money comes off the books next year, but not really enough for Eppler to do much with. If Arte doesn't come out of his self-protective shell and open the checkbook, fans of this team are going to be looking at a pretty long period of mediocrity.

[DMVol]

38 minutes ago, Homebrewer said:

Free Agency is the only way this team will become competitive any time soon. There really isn't anything in the current system to trade with.

Worst FA market in years this winter....if Arte opens up the checkbook, he may have picked the wrong year....which is why I'd look carefully at some of the Cuban FA's.....

[Angel Oracle]

Reddick's BIG red flag is his hitting vs LHP (sub .500 OPS so far in 2016, .625 OPS from 2013-15).  

If he could hit them even decently, he's an All-Star caliber player.   But because of it, he only averages some 425 at bats/season since 2013. 

[nando714]

arte did open his checkbook and it has gotten this organization where they are now 

 

[John Stellman]

The Angels will stand pat at the trade deadline.  If they can get healthy in the next 5-6 weeks they'll still have time to make things interesting.

[Stradling]

I disagree @nando714, I believe the reason the team is where it is has more to do with a lousy minor league system than over paying Albert and paying for Hamilton. 

[Jobu]

1 minute ago, hangin n wangin said:

Overpaying for Albert and paying for Hamilton did partly contribute to making our farm worse though. We lost the #19 pick in 2012 and the #22 pick in 2013.

Not to mention any transactions made due to some need to build a competitive team around high priced talent with a short shelf life.

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, 19HALO71 said:

Come on everyone!!!

Remember in 1995 when the Angels had a 13 game lead going into September. We lost the division to the Mariners.

It's only June, we have plenty of time to get back into this. Don't give up yet, it's going to be an exciting season. We got this!!!

Go Halos!!!

 

Except that the 13 game lead was actually through around mid-August (42 games remaining).     Understand your thought though, but there are far too many holes.   Where is the solid relief pitching going to come from?   Where is the hitting from the bottom 3-4 spots in the order?   Who are going to be the 5 effective enough starters going forward?   

We are already 7 games in back of the second WC spot, and a zillion games in back of Tejas.   

Currently, the Halos would get either the #6 or #7 overall pick (protected), and in each round, for the 2017 draft.   Unfortunately, there are no impending FA's on this team that would likely refuse a QO; and thus no extra picks to be had.   

[Pujols4MVP]

I don't like the idea of the Angels being the MLB equil of the NJ Devils. They need to restock the farm system & be sellers at the deadline.

& if the Twins were to sweep the Angels they'd gain some ground in next years draft order.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

5 hours ago, Stradling said:

I did give up my season tickets, I don't have them this year.  As far as opening day, you know that answer.  That's a tradition that's deeper than the quality of the team and my issues with Arte.  

Then you are doing your part.  I totally get opening day.  Pay once instead of 81 games. 

Unfortunately there aren't a lot like you. He still gets his cash.  I wish the Samuelis or some other OC billionaire could buy out the team.   Unfortunately nobody going to pay top dollar for this Yugo of a franchise.

we will likely need to endure much darker years than this.  

 

It it feels like the Nolan Ryan years all over again. 

[Troll Daddy]

You guys are all gutless ... if you're going to rebuild then you trade Trout. He's your #1 trade piece. 

By the time you rebuild a competitive team Trout will be gone anyways. 

[Angel Oracle]

23 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

You guys are all gutless ... if you're going to rebuild then you trade Trout. He's your #1 trade piece. 

By the time you rebuild a competitive team Trout will be gone anyways. 

And get mostly garbage in return, like the Fish got for M-Cab 8.5 years ago?

no thank you 

[Pujols4MVP]

41 minutes ago, SoToSpeaks said:

 I wish the Samuelis or some other OC billionaire could buy out the team.   Unfortunately nobody going to pay top dollar for this Yugo of a franchise.

With how good of owners Samuelis are in the NHL, they probally wouldn't even consider it unless Arte sold them the team on a loss.

They would focus more on a GM who will spend on international prospects & up the scouting budget.

They'd probally clean house of all responsible for the crappy drafts from 2011 to 2015.

Scioscia would be given the option of resigning or being fired.

They'd make the Angels a mid range team in payroll like the 2002 team & Possibly adjust the team name to be more accurate(they changed the mighty ducks of anaheim to just: anaheim ducks).

[Jobu]

Arte could sell the team 50% off and still make out like a bandit. No way he takes a loss even if he has to discount the $150M is stadium renovations owed in the lease.  

[DMVol]

2 hours ago, nando714 said:

arte did open his checkbook and it has gotten this organization where they are now 

We've had good signings.  Vlad was a good signing, the best FA signing in club history, probably one of the best since FA began in all of baseball. OCabrera was a good signing...Abreu was a good signing (for one year, the extension wasn't a good signing).  Signing KMorales out of Cuba was a good sigining....Joe Smith was a good signing. Way back, Langston was a good signing.

Hamilton was a terrible signing, one of the worst FA deals ever in baseball.  Pujols was bad because of the length.

Nobody gets them all right but if you miss on mega deals like Hamilton and Pujols, you're screwed.  You need to be smart.  If Arte pushed Pujols and Hamilton and didn't listen to the baseball people, that wasn't smart.

 

[Ohtaniland]

44 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

You guys are all gutless ... if you're going to rebuild then you trade Trout. He's your #1 trade piece. 

By the time you rebuild a competitive team Trout will be gone anyways. 

I've been saying that since last season. Everybody loves Trout but does it make sense to keep him around with the very little talent surrounding him. He could net some serious prospects and since we are going to suck for a few years anyways why not invest in the future now with cost controlled players. Like it or not, Mike Trout is going to get very expensive in the next couple of seasons. Putting all of your eggs into one basket is setting yourself up for fail. Trout has been here for a few seasons and shows nothing but class and greatness but WE ARE NOT WINNING with Trout. In fact, we are regressing to the point that we are worse than what Reagins left us. The 2010 team was better. Most of the 2002-2010 clubs were better TEAMS. This current squad is made up of Trout and mostly players that would not start on many other clubs. There's no balance. It's a one trick pony team. Weak pitching, weak bullpen, weak bench, weak lineup with Calhoun, Trout and aging Albert.