Does This Convince Moreno To Allow For A Rebuild?

[AngelsLakersFan]

The team has needed something of a reboot for awhile now, but I think most of us are convinced that Moreno is not willing to run an uncompetitive team out on the field.

Do you guys think we will be sellers now? Or even attempt something of a rebuild? How far will we take it?

I think we should take fliers on some veterans with upside like Lincecum, with the hopes that they do well and can be traded at the deadline, along with useful pieces like Street, Smith, Wilson, or really anyone who can fetch a decent return and isn't signed for more than 2 seasons.

Thoughts?

[nando714]

Gives 200m to Strasburg in December 

Edited May 6, 2016 by nando714

[gotbeer]

Too late to build an arc, when you are neck deep in a flood.

[Angel Oracle]

If I was Arte Moreno, I'm ready to go into rebuild mode; but not a 5 year plan, more like a 3 year plan through 2018 that still leaves two years before Trout is a FA.

Count on Richards and Heaney (if also needing TJ surgery later) not being back until mid-2017.   Meantime, make sure the best possible scouts and development coaches are in place and draft well without giving up any 1st round picks, and reinvest in Latin America once the 2 year post-signing Baldoquin moratorium is up.

On the bright side, they may get a really good 1st round pick for each of the next 2 seasons (2017-18).

Edited May 6, 2016 by Angel Oracle

[Pujols4MVP]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

If I was Arte Moreno, I'm ready to go into rebuild mode; but not a 5 year plan, more like a 3 year plan through 2018 that still leaves two years before Trout is a FA.

Count on Richards and Heaney (if also needing TJ surgery later) not being back until mid-2017.   Meantime, make sure the best possible scouts and development coaches are in place and draft well without giving up any 1st round picks, and reinvest in Latin America once the 2 year post-signing Baldoquin moratorium is up.

On the bright side, they may get a really good 1st round pick for each of the next 2 seasons (2017-18).

Yup. No point in them trying to salvage the season & end up with the #12th pick when they can go for #1 or #2 by trading Calhoun & Santiago.

 

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

If I was Arte Moreno, I'm ready to go into rebuild mode; but not a 5 year plan, more like a 3 year plan through 2018 that still leaves two years before Trout is a FA.

Count on Richards and Heaney (if also needing TJ surgery later) not being back until mid-2017.   Meantime, make sure the best possible scouts and development coaches are in place and draft well without giving up any 1st round picks, and reinvest in Latin America once the 2 year post-signing Baldoquin moratorium is up.

Even if we focus our attention on drafting as well as we possibly can, I'm not sure how much impact it will really have. Most really good high school draft picks are going to take 4 years to develop. By the time they are established Trout will not represent as significant of an advantage. Our best bet will be through getting good returns on trades.

[krAbs]

Just now, MikeScioscia4MVP said:

Yup. No point in them trying to salvage the season & end up with the #12th pick when they can go for #1 or #2 by trading Calhoun & Santiago.

 

 

I like this. I guess spend a couple years trying to sell/pick up high upside guys like lincicum and hoping they preform so you can turn them for prospects, and then spend like a motherf*cker in 2018. Its like...its not fun, but thats how you run a team...

[Angel Oracle]

It's amazing that the Halos, iirc, are the ONLY MLB team to never lose 100 games (high of 96 in 1968, also 95 in 1980). 

With all of this happening, that may change.

[Pujols4MVP]

Just now, krAbs said:

I like this. I guess spend a couple years trying to sell/pick up high upside guys like lincicum and hoping they preform so you can turn them for prospects, and then spend like a motherf*cker in 2018. Its like...its not fun, but thats how you run a team...

Yeah spend like crazy in 2018.

Its too bad that their isn't a #1 draft prospect with a last name like Luck so they can do a Suck for Luck campaign at the stadium.

[Angel Oracle]

They can still sign a couple of solid FA's after 2017, when some $55-$60 million (Weave, Wilson, and Hackilton) is cleared from payroll. 

But the days of relying on aging superstars need to come to a close, and actually have for all intents and purposes (none signed since Hackilton over 3 years ago). 

[krAbs]

1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

They can still sign a couple of solid FA's after 2017, when some $55-$60 million (Weave, Wilson, and Hackilton) is cleared from payroll. 

But the days of relying on aging superstars need to come to a close, and actually have for all intents and purposes (none signed since Hackilton over 3 years ago). 

Oh yeah. I'll be happy if they take that and don't spend more then 10 mil a year on a player. Spread it around the field, and let the actual young superstars we DO have shine.

[Stradling]

This team is so poorly constructed that a rebuild isn't all that possible.  I'd be ok trading Escobar, Soto, Street, Smith and possibly Trop, but what are you really going to get for these guys?  So you rebuild the minors with guys, but if those guys aren't good enough to be major leaguers then what does it matter?  The idea of trading Calhoun is crazy, only because of what the possible return would be.  Who really thinks we will get someone that is as good as Calhoun in return for him?  Maybe Eppler has the ability to see some hidden gem, but if you find a hidden gem that guy is going to be a Class A player 3 or 4 years away.  Street might bring the best haul of the group I mentioned.  Now if a contender is looking for a SS and you can get a nice haul for Simmons, he is the one guy that could get us real value in return.  However doing that means you give up the best defensive player in the game at a reasonable contract.  When your team is average you need great defense because you will be playing a ton of close games and won't be scoring a ton of runs.  Pretty frustrating time.  Arte has to invest in the minor leagues it is the only way we will be a stron, self sufficient, team going forward. 

[Troll Daddy]

You do nothing until the trade deadline. I'd take the wait and see approach. 

 

[Pujols4MVP]

I wouldn't be surprised if Arte 'Al Davis' Moreno says "just win, baby" to Eppler. Seems like that guy will never agree to a rebuild.

[Mark68]

Since we need to get talent in the minors, drafting was going to be important anyway.

Unfortunately, we're probably not going to see the fruits of good drafts for quite a few years, maybe not in the remainder of Trout's contract. But we have to draft well regardless.

[RallyPanda]

Everyone but Trout is tradeable, but could they even net anyone decent in return?

[Chimi]

The Angels are in a terrible spot. Part of going into rebuild mode is buying time for top prospects to mature and get to the major league level. We have no top prospects. Our farm system is garbage and we have no one on the major league roster not named Trout that's going to bring you an infusion of young talent.

Rebuilding through free agency is a terrible plan. This team needs to get better at drafting and player development. I feel that's been a huge black hole in this team for a while.

 

[bloodbrother]

31 minutes ago, nando714 said:

Gives 200m to Strasburg in December 

Ewww no. We just saw Richards/Heaney go down with TJS and you want to shell out over $200 million on a guy who will be 29 and already having had TJS in his past(amidst other various injuries). Strasburg has too many red flags to want to commit long-term

 

[Stradling]

Hey, but good news, Arte didn't waste any extra money this past off season.  That has to make us feel good, right?

[Pujols4MVP]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

This team is so poorly constructed that a rebuild isn't all that possible.  I'd be ok trading Escobar, Soto, Street, Smith and possibly Trop, but what are you really going to get for these guys?  So you rebuild the minors with guys, but if those guys aren't good enough to be major leaguers then what does it matter?  The idea of trading Calhoun is crazy, only because of what the possible return would be.  Who really thinks we will get someone that is as good as Calhoun in return for him?  Maybe Eppler has the ability to see some hidden gem, but if you find a hidden gem that guy is going to be a Class A player 3 or 4 years away.  Street might bring the best haul of the group I mentioned.  Now if a contender is looking for a SS and you can get a nice haul for Simmons, he is the one guy that could get us real value in return.  However doing that means you give up the best defensive player in the game at a reasonable contract.  When your team is average you need great defense because you will be playing a ton of close games and won't be scoring a ton of runs.  Pretty frustrating time.  Arte has to invest in the minor leagues it is the only way we will be a stron, self sufficient, team going forward. 

Whats the point of keeping players so they can average 75 wins every year ? 75 wins every year means they suck at winning & suck at getting a better draft position.

One must have alot of confidence in the teams scouting to do well with the 10th overall pick they likely get if they average around 75 wins next few years. Given the Angels recent failures in the draft, they might as well try their luck with a top3 pick next few years.

Edited May 6, 2016 by MikeScioscia4MVP

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, MikeScioscia4MVP said:

Whats the point of keeping players so they can average 75 wins every year ? 75 wins every year means they suck at winning & suck at getting a better draft position.

One must have alot of confidence in the teams scouting to do well with the 10th overall pick they likely get if they average around 75 wins next few years.

Like I said, I have no problem trading Escobar, Street and Smith.  But Calhoun and Simmons are both young and unless the perfect situation is presented, trading either probably doesn't improve the team, short term, or long term.  They don't cost so much that they would open up needed salary space. 

[bloodbrother]

As far as the state of this org.....I've already stated my opinion on what I think is a pretty dire situation for us as fans. The roster is weak, the payroll is bloated, and the farm is laughably bad. With that said, things can and do change quickly in sports. I think these injuries should hopfully signal a bit of course correction for this FO. They should be looking more towards 2018 now IMO. That would be the target year to see this team become competitive and make the playoffs. They have this 2 yr window now to figure things out with regards to trading certain pieces and signing certain pieces....and to also hopefully be more freakin aggressive in the international market

Goal now would be to try and be good by 2018 and then hopefully become very aggressive in what should be a historic FA class after that year

[Stradling]

The payroll is only bloated for another year.  One of the shitty "good news" parts of this, is this will absolutely bring down Richards price tag going forward.  So when Arte was talking about having to think about extensions to players going forward, well who really deserves big money on the current roster.  So after next season, we will be paying Albert, Trout and Simmons.  The team will have over $100 million to spend annually on the rest of the team. 

[Pujols4MVP]

Best case scenario: Mark Cuban buys the team & Albert Pujols retires.

There is about a 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance of that happening.
But hey its still a chance !

[nando714]

How do you rebuild without trading Trout? Why surround a bunch of aaa/aaaa players around trout. 

Have the balls blow the whole thing up and start over. 

Everyone is tradable except Pujols bc of his contract.