Is Dipoto to blame?

[mtangelsfan]

Vlad came off of back surgery after missing the last 2 months of the 2003 season for the Expos.

That supposedly scared some teams away, and allowed the Halos to sign him for 5 years/$70 million, very good money for back then but still short of what a healthy Vlad would have gotten. 

 

So basically you give nobody credit for the Vlad signing.  Not the GM, not Arte, not Sosh.  Just good luck.

[Angel Oracle]

Not knowing the inner dealings behind the signing, it's hard to say.    Credit can be given to Moreno and Stoneman for taking a chance on Vlad, despite coming off of back surgery.

 

Luck likely played a part too, in the back surgery probably dwindling the teams willing to sign him to a large contract.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[greginpsca]

As noted above, Vlad was coming off surgery and scaring teams away. Stoneman was discussing Rafael Palmiero with his agent[ who was also Vlad's agent].  The agent brought up Vlad to Stoneman, and Stoneman then went to Arte to discuss it. We ended up getting  a discount on Vlad's contract, compared to what everyone thought he would get.

Edited September 2, 2015 by greginpsca

[Dick B Back]

The only new thing I've learned from this thread is the name of the documentary I'll be watching on FS West in October...

Angels 2015 - An Orgy of Suckage

Thanks tdwag!

[Stradling]

Not knowing the inner dealings behind the signing, it's hard to say. Credit can be given to Moreno and Stoneman for taking a chance on Vlad, despite coming off of back surgery.

Luck likely played a part too, in the back surgery probably dwindling the teams willing to sign him to a large contract.

Ok, so then stopped complaining about Arte being starry eyed and interferring, since you don't know the inner dealings behind the Angels signings and trades.

[Angel Oracle]

That was also 11+ years ago.    Who knows what has changed for the worse?   

And that's the frustrating part, not knowing if the "changed for the worse" will be reversed going forward. 

[Stradling]

That was also 11+ years ago. Who knows what has changed for the worse?

And that's the frustrating part, not knowing if the "changed for the worse" will be reversed going forward.

Here is the thing, you assume the worst, and you place the blame on whoever the whipping boy is at that moment, you change your narrative all the time.

[Angel Oracle]

I just call it like I see it, backed by nearly 50 years of watching the sport.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[Lou]

You guys should be blowing Arte for taking the chance and signing Vlad when other owners wouldn't,

not shi**ing all over him for it.

Once again, all blame/no credit reigns supreme.

[Lou]

That was also 11+ years ago.    Who knows what has changed for the worse?   

And that's the frustrating part, not knowing if the "changed for the worse" will be reversed going forward.

Since we had the best record in baseball last year and actually led the division a month ago, I guess the "changed for the worse"

(not that we know what that is - your words) occurred a few weeks ago then. Right?

[Angel Oracle]

Changed for the worse = from 2010-2015, three mediocre seasons, one decent season, one solid season, and one great season soiled by a sweep. 

Which followed 6 great seasons, 1 solid season, and only 1 mediocre season from 2002-2009.

 

And 2016 is a big question mark at this point.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[Lou]

From 2004-2009 we missed the playoffs twice and had 3 seasons "soiled by a sweep"

Another season ended with us winning the first game of the series then losing 4 straight.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Lou

[Angel Oracle]

And won at least 95 games in 6 out of 8 seasons from 2002-2009.

 

Just when many of us likely thought (myself included) by November 2009 that this franchise had turned a big corner in the 2000s, we are back to basically where we were in the 1980s, struggling to string together two over .500 seasons in a row (only once in the 1980s and so far just once in the 2010s).

[Lou]

Who cares how many games we won if the season was soiled?

Or does that only apply to 2014?

[Lou]

why are you suddenly including 2002?

and we didn't win 95 games 6 times from 02-09

[Ohtaniland]

Where are you getting your info? In particular, "...he was told to get it done or get fired"

TMZ

I also enjoy watching Finding Bigfoot on Animal planet. Solid information there.

[Lou]

TMZ

I also enjoy watching Finding Bigfoot on Animal planet. Solid information there.

That's it.

You and I are going squatchin!

[Angel Oracle]

Okay, 5 times with 95 wins from 2002-2009 plus the 92 win 2004 season featuring the 50-31 finish after the 42-39 first half plus the 89 win 2006 season featuring the 54-29 finish after a 35-44 start, and just 1 season out of 8 of not winning at least 89 games (franchise record for the first 21 seasons was 88.)

 

From THAT to the 2010s is a big letdown!   

[Stradling]

So you will only be happy with every year being a 90+ win team. Seems resonable.

[mp170.6]

I'll only be happy with a 140-win team. 

[Lou]

Arte had nothing to do with 2002. Not sure why you are suddenly including that season. Why not include 99-01 when we averaged under 76 wins/yr?

Also, why are you so disappointed in 2014 and yet look back fondly on the soiled seasons between 03-09?

[Lou]

I'll only be happy with a 140-win team.

failo

[mp170.6]

Teams that don't take care of business against their division rivals and/or dominate interleague play, almost never win their division. 

 

The reason Houston is on top is because they've gone 8-5 vs LAA, 7-6 vs OAK, 10-5 vs SEA, and 14-3 against the National League.  That right there accounts for 39 of their 73 wins.

 

Angels have been good against AL West teams but are 7-10 in interleague play. 

[YouthofToday]

Vlad was all set to sign with the Dodgers yet MLB rejected the contractual terms from McCourt.

Vlad then literally fell into the Angels lap.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I don't heap blame on Moreno. He signed guys who should have been productive and been major contributors. Whether the contracts were too long or for too much money is a different discussion. He has shown a willingness to spend major money to improve the club at a time when many complained that we weren't aggressive enough in the free agent market. It hasn't worked out.