Is Dipoto to blame?

[Stradling]

Various, there is no proof that Arte forced Jerry's hand with Hamilton or Albert. I realize it is assumed and considered common knowledge that this was the case, however Jerry himself has said he went to Arte with the idea of signing both of those players.

[DMVol]

Every MLB team should stop trading with the Cardinals....ur going to lose no matter what.

So far, it looks like the Indians bent them over pretty good for Brandon Moss.....

[Tyler]

So far, it looks like the Indians bent them over pretty good for Brandon Moss.....

 

If Heyward doesn't stick around Miller and Jenkins is looking pretty good for the Braves.

[Doug Van Oort Sr]

I don't blame Dipoto, I don't think he was ever allowed to actually be a real GM.  Dipoto had his hands tied and could only make moves if MS approved them. Time for Mike to go, find another young GM that has fresh ideas and allow him to run the team.

[Ohtaniland]

2007 - 2011 Reagins' plan was unsustainable. 2011 (71-59) after 130 games

 

2012 - 2015 Jerry's plan was unsustainable. 2015 (65-65) after 130 games

 

Jerry Dipoto didn't really improve the team. The names have changed but the results are the same.

[Doug Van Oort Sr]

2007 - 2011 Reagins' plan was unsustainable. 2011 (71-59) after 130 games

 

2012 - 2015 Jerry's plan was unsustainable. 2015 (65-65) after 130 games

 

Jerry Dipoto didn't really improve the team. The names have changed but the results are the same.

And the one thing that remains the same is the dinosaur in the dugout.

[tdawg87]

There are a lot of people to blame for this mess. Dipoto is absolutely one of them. As is Scioscia. As is Stoneman. As is Moreno. As are the players. Ultimately, this has been a collective effort of suck.

 

It's like an orgy of suckage. You get a beej from 20 different people throughout the night before blowing your wad. Obviously one person will ultimately be the one giving the beej when you explode but there were a multitude of people who contributed to it.

 

I'm drunk btw.

[Ohtaniland]

There are a lot of people to blame for this mess. Dipoto is absolutely one of them. As is Scioscia. As is Stoneman. As is Moreno. As are the players. Ultimately, this has been a collective effort of suck.

 

It's like an orgy of suckage. You get a beej from 20 different people throughout the night before blowing your wad. Obviously one person will ultimately be the one giving the beej when you explode but there were a multitude of people who contributed to it.

 

I'm drunk btw.

 

Orgy of suckage.

 

Brilliant tdawg!

[Troll Daddy]

I don't blame Dipoto, I don't think he was ever allowed to actually be a real GM. Dipoto had his hands tied and could only make moves if MS approved them. Time for Mike to go, find another young GM that has fresh ideas and allow him to run the team.

This is garbage ... Dipoto hands were never tied. He needed MS approval. Lol

[Blarg]

The horsemen of the apocalypse.

[tennischmp]

I was excited because I welcomed statistical analysis and saw it as improvement.  The total power BS meant almost nothing to me.. I saw that as fluff, everyone knew that when George talked about giving a guy power to call the shots it went so far as calling the shots until he got a wild hair up his butt and then he was time for "The Boss"...   Seems naive to believe Moreno would be any different.  Its possible that might be the case with the next guy but the Angels had not hit bottom yet.

So then if you agree that Dipoto didn't have complete power, how can you be so sure most of the moves he had no influence from above or below? I bet his first move would have been to fire Scioscia if he could and things could have looked a bit different with a new manager running the show

Edited August 31, 2015 by tennischmp

[Angelsjunky]

It seems that many forget the influence Scioscia has on this team, and is the common denominator throughout all of this. The guy just needs to go - this team needs new leadership.

[ettin]

I think you are right on the mark Shane.  The fact that he quit and walked away at the worst possible time rankles me the most; great timing for him, very poor timing for the team.  You can't expect someone like Stoneman to come in at that point and do anything significant, he's just trying to keep the club from doing anything rash prior to finding a permanent replacement.  Jerry didn't give Scioscia a team that was suitable to Scioscia's strengths as a manager, i.e. this club was given a stationary offense.  Now we are probably forced to make wholesale changes in the coaching staff, manager, and who knows elsewhere in the front office system.  These kind of changes will likely set us back for more years then they should have under an organized change over at the GM position.  He was better than Reagins, but worse than Stoneman's first tenure as GM.  The original Stoneman had the better instincts, inter personal skills, and stability that Jerry lacks.  Jerry has the tactical skills for the saber metric baseball world (there are many in the baseball world these days who have those kind of skills), but falls short after that.

 

One other thing is that I can't completely blame Arte for this mess (although he made a number of apparent mistakes), when a GM tries to force certain changes on an owner by giving him an ultimatum (do as I want, or I'm gone), I wouldn't necessarily back him either.  It's a collaborative effort, you have to lead people by convincing them your ideas are sound, and will work.        

 

And Arte didn't give Jerry a Manager that was suitable to his strengths as a GM. Wholesale changes should have been available to Jerry from the start. Instead Dipoto got a partial wish list in firing Butcher.

 

The blame game can go all over the place. Arte is at the top and I blame him for not empowering his General Manager. I also blame Arte for giving Scioscia a 10 year contract. It is not unlike giving a player a 10 year contract.... You get a handful of good years and at the end of the contract you get some bad ones. In fact this team over the last several years has paid for past performance way too much (GMJ, Pujols, blahblahblah) which really points to Moreno. It's great that he wants to spend money but I think we've learned hard lessons that the money we're spending shouldn't be to free agent players but to our farm system, international scouting, and extensions to our young, improving players (Trout being the best example of this).

 

We need a change at the management position. Scioscia has impressive qualities (baseball knowledge and consistently calm demeanor being two) but I just feel like this club is so stale that a fresh voice would reinvigorate this team and some coaching rollover would brighten the clubhouse. It may ultimately backfire as the new manager just might not cut it but there is just no spirit here and I really feel like the players WANT to win but just don't have the RIGHT leadership in place.

 

This has been a supremely disappointing season in many ways. I didn't like Dipoto resigning as I felt he was on the right track with his moves and positioning this team to compete each year but mistakes were made and his timing was off. Even some of his "failures" have gone on to do well just at the wrong times in their careers to help the Angels (see Madson, Blanton and Hawkins this year for instance). No GM is perfect and Dipoto certainly wasn't. Same with managers. Same with owners.

 

I really need Arte to read this and ask him to please select an analytically sound GM who has scouting and negotiation experience. That is what this team needs right now. We need a GM who will think outside the box, build the farm and can make savvy trades to re-position this team for next year and beyond. Most importantly Arte PLEASE EMPOWER this GM properly. Doing the same thing over and over has only been producing the same result.

 

Okay /endrant

[Second Base]

There's plenty of blame to go around, but I think we can pinpoint it down to 5 specific cases.

1. Veteran leadership. Ibanez and JohnnyMac were clubhouse leaders that had more influence with the players than coaches did. That is gone now. Trout and Pujols have done a solid job, but this team needs more of an identity. Veterans off the bench help give you that.

2. Second base. Kendrick would've been the Angels 4th best hitter this year. He also would've been among the better defenders. The Angels not only lost a middle of the order bat, they lost veteran leadership and a key defensive cog.

3. The bullpen. Pestano, Morin, Salas and Bedrosian have all failed where we needed them to succeed. Grilli and Jepsen were that bridge for the Angels. But our guys failed to step up this year the way they needed to.

4. LF/DH. These are two spots that you stash top and middle of the order hitters, and Hamilton and Joyce failed.

5. Scioscia. This has become a stale, station to station team. He needs to be putting Trout, Calhoun and Aybar in motion every game.

Luckily, any GM worth half of his contract can fix all of these quickly, if Arte is willing to go over the luxury tax for one year.

1. Sign a gritty veteran UTIF. Bloomquist, Pennington or Uribe would work.

2. Bring back Kendrick. His defense, bat and presence are all needed.

3. Sign one very good RP, put him in the 7th inning. Put Gott in the 6th and let the young guys earn their way into a role instead of handing it to them.

4. Cron is our DH, and I have no problem with this. Now go get a legitimate LF. No, not David Murphy. I'm thinking Heyward. He can bat anywhere 1-5, is LH, only 26 years old, plays excellent defense and would mesh well with Trout and Calhoun. He'd transform this team.

It's a lot of money to absorb, but with Weav and Wilson coming off the books and more than enough pitching to take their place, we'll be taking almost 40 million off the payroll in 2017.

LF Heyward, RF Calhoun CF Trout 1B Pujols 2B Kendrick SS Aybar DH Cron, 3B Kubitza/Cowart, C Perez/Bandy

By the end of next year, our rotation is Richards, Heaney, Newcomb, Skaggs and Ellis/Shoemaker/Tropeano.

One of the best offenses, defenses, and pitching staffs in the game, and I solved in a matter of minutes. Imagine what a real GM could do.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Plenty of blame to go around and trying to scapegoat any one person is really just a cop out.  Arte needs to let his GM do his job, DiPoto made some poor moves personnel wise, Mike really just seems set in his ways and wields too much power and some guys that needed to perform just haven't this year.  The Angels have had the most success in the franchises history during his tenure but I think it's time for the one change that's been the only constant for the last 15 years.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Catwhoshatinthehat

[gotbeer]

Various, there is no proof that Arte forced Jerry's hand with Hamilton or Albert. I realize it is assumed and considered common knowledge that this was the case, however Jerry himself has said he went to Arte with the idea of signing both of those players.

 

Angels owner felt compelled to pursue Pujols

 

 

Moreno instructed new GM Jerry Dipoto to inform Pujols' agent, Dan Lozano, that the Angels were interested and then asked to speak with Pujols on the phone.

 

 

 

In Hamilton Trade, Arte Moreno Surprises Again With Risky Move

 

 

The latest green light flashed by the Mexican-American owner, the first and only Hispanic to own a Major League Baseball team, was a move that General Manager Jerry Dipoto wasn't on horizon. 

 

 

IMO, Dipoto was in a no win situation.  Especially after those two particular signings, and with then Arte saying no to going over the Luxury Tax.

 

LUXURY TAX LIMITS ANGELS' OPTIONS TO FIX DEPLETED ROTATION

 

Owner Arte Moreno is adamant that the team will not surpass the threshold, according to rival clubs that have spoken to the Angels.

 

 

You have to shoestring and take chances on everything.  Of the $140 million that is spent on the Angels this season, Pujols, Hamilton, Trout CJ, and Weaver account for $86 million of it.  Next season, they account for $107 million.  Next season is about $101 million against the Tax for those 5 players.  Hard to make a complete team on $69 million.

[VariousCrap]

Various, there is no proof that Arte forced Jerry's hand with Hamilton or Albert. I realize it is assumed and considered common knowledge that this was the case, however Jerry himself has said he went to Arte with the idea of signing both of those players.

 

 

 

It is well known and accepted from everyone close to the Angels and this includes guys like Jeff Fletcher who has proven himself to be very trustworthy.

[VariousCrap]

Angels owner felt compelled to pursue Pujols

 

 

 

In Hamilton Trade, Arte Moreno Surprises Again With Risky Move

 

 

IMO, Dipoto was in a no win situation.  Especially after those two particular signings, and with then Arte saying no to going over the Luxury Tax.

 

LUXURY TAX LIMITS ANGELS' OPTIONS TO FIX DEPLETED ROTATION

 

You have to shoestring and take chances on everything.  Of the $140 million that is spent on the Angels this season, Pujols, Hamilton, Trout CJ, and Weaver account for $86 million of it.  Next season, they account for $107 million.  Next season is about $101 million against the Tax for those 5 players.  Hard to make a complete team on $69 million.

 

 

 

 

Excellent job and 100% true.

[SoWhat]

Heyward and Kendrick are not going to make the Angels a top offense.

[Ohtaniland]

The more I read about Arte the more I want him to sell the team. He and Scioscia did Reagins and Dipoto dirty. If he doesn't sell the team and if Scioscia stays on as manager I hope Trout demands a trade.

[laagamer]

We didn't bring Vlad back to DH when we could have used him, I don't see us bringing back Kendrick.

But who knows? It'd be nice to see.

[TroutCron]

The next GM must come from an organization that has been successful in the International market. This team is totally lacking in players with upside. There are no impact offensive players in the upper levels of the system. This is not going to be an easy fix. The new GM must hire quality instructors for the minor league system. It is inconceivable that an organization can't develop at least a couple of average every day players. Only Trout and Calhoun are quality MLB players with none on the horizon. This, seems to me, on Dipoto and Servais.

[Inside Pitch]

 

So then if you agree that Dipoto didn't have complete power, how can you be so sure most of the moves he had no influence from above or below? I bet his first move would have been to fire Scioscia if he could and things could have looked a bit different with a new manager running the show

 

 

Chuck has indicated that Dipoto was in fact very much in the mix when it came to Hamilton and Pujols..... not that it matters, I never ripped him for those things but rather the things he did do..   and in the case of the bullpen, the time it took him to actually address a problem that had existed prior to his even being hired.

 

I don't doubt that Dipoto would have preferred to bring in one of his lackeys to run the team -- but he knew going in he couldn't, and lets be real, he didn't have the resume to oust a manager that had put up winning seasons in 7 of the previous 8 seasons.

 

FTR, I don't believe Dipoto was a bad GM..   Arte made a mistake pairing Dipoto and Mike Scioscia.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Second Base]

Heyward and Kendrick are not going to make the Angels a top offense.

 

Hard to argue that they would or wouldn't.  But I feel like they would.  It adds two run producers to go with Trout, Calhoun and Pujols.  

[laagamer]

We need both hitting and pitching.

But a front end SP is the first priority IMO.

Edited August 31, 2015 by laagamer