Off the field: Are the Angels now the worst organization?

[tdawg87]

I'm not 100% on this one so I haven't gotten the popcorn ready, but I do feel there is potential here.

[ukyah]

my question and what i really want to know is, what the **** does "he had a hat" mean?

 

 

edit: are you serious? nice pull.

 

A Jewish grandmother is watching her grandchild playing on the beach when a huge wave comes and takes him out to sea. She pleads, "please God, save my only grandson. I beg of you, bring him back." And a big wave comes and washes the boy back onto the beach, good as new. She looks up to heaven and says: "He had a hat!"

Edited July 10, 2015 by ukyah

[Mark68]

Is it? Outside of Loria I can't even name any of the other MLB owners because I've never heard their names in the news (which is a good thing).

Well, there is Hank Son of Steinbrenner. But he's no George.

[WallyWorld]

not sure how you can objectively determine the "worst" franchise off the field. They certainly have been one of the most dysfunctional over the past few years - not sure even the biggest superfan on here could argue that.

[stevestevens]

No mention of Texas.  Made it to the WS, ran Nolan out of town, signed some bad contracts and oh yeah, they ran freakin' Nolan Ryan out of town.  Look how long that cursed our organization.  Don't mess with the express.  

[ettin]

No franchise is worse than the Phillies right now, period.

[VariousCrap]

Without a doubt, they are on the bottom half in baseball for the last several years.  This year has just been horrendous.

[arch stanton]

The old phrase that someone gossips like an old woman should henceforth be replaced with the phrase "you gossip like a wannabe sports journalist".

[AngelsFaninGA]

You know who is partially to blame for that? Dipoto. If he was the right person to be the GM for the Angels, than he would have been able to control Arte because that is what the job requires. 

 

 

 

Huh? It's Dipoto's job to control the guy who owns the team and pays his salary? Go find the job description where it says that. There are legitimate arguments against Dipoto, and this is most certainly not one of them. So Arte meddles in the decisions of his baseball people, and then the baseball people are the ones to blame for it. Go figure. 

 

Seriously, imagine this conversation:

 

Arte: "Go sign Hamilton for me, I want him."

Dipoto: "No, he would be a bad investment."

Arte: "Do it or I'll fire you and find someone who will."

After a few iterations:

Dipoto: "Fine...."

 

In fact, this is probably how the conversation actually went. 

[tomsred]

You guys have vivid imaginations.

[Puget Sound Angel]

At least we haven't filed for bankruptcy like the Dodgers.

[Docwaukee]

Even with my professed mental break I think claiming this franchise as anywhere near the bottom is kinda silly.  While I am concerned about what happens when they get  a gm, I have cooled off and become a little bit more bullish.  

 

The franchise has the ninth most wins in baseball since 2010.  A period of time that has netted zero playoff wins and only one appearance.  They still have mike trout and a bunch of quality arms that are major league ready and some others that are close.  So the team will have an opportunity to stay competitive at the major league level for at least 3-4 more years.  

 

I don't like the idea of Scioscia as the guy in charge of philosophy and direction.  If they can somehow, at the very least, maintain a system of checks and balances that attempts to incorporate advanced metrics then I guess that's better than the Reagins era.  What they do this offseason will tell me a lot.  

 

I also think the perception of Arte as an egomaniacal dictator is incorrect.  His dabbling is unfortunate but his intentions are good albeit misplaced.  He couldn't undo the dynamic he created between MS and Dipoto but I think he has backed away from being an instigator of personnel moves sans his handling of Hamilton from stem to stern.  

 

If they can bring in someone who will continue to push analytics as the yin to the yang of 'feel' and 'old school' then at least there is some semblance of balance.  

 

Arte wants to win and that is his primary goal.  What Dipoto wanted from him is something that should have been done long ago, but that ship had sailed and the timing was inappropriate.  So be it.  It was unfortunate, but it doesn't make them a bad franchise in and of itself.  It's what they do next that will determine that and will tell us a lot about their learning curve.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

One of the most slanted "outside looking in" articles in a bit.

Sorry, theres way too much there to disagree with. And most of its based on rumors vs hard facts. Ive always been and will continue to remain ambiguous as to the information im privy to, where i get it, and who i get it from, but its one of the reasons reading articles like that frustrate the hell out of me.

Firstly, the suggestion the angels "dont care about anyone but rich fans" is based on one comment taken completely the wrong way in response to a question. "What about the low attendance?" "Well, were not too worried, our profit is still in the positive". Holy shit! You hate the poor! Anyone can feel free to check the ticket prices for the pavilion and bleacher sections. And i suggest travelling to different venues to get a better picture. The reason attendance is down is simple...the angels have a mediocre fan base, and currently theyre a boring team. Its got zero to do with cost. Go to the bleachers in dodger stadium, take a look at that crowd, then check the ticket prices...then tell me cost is keeping the less afluent from going to games.

As far as the hamilton situation, its far deeper than has been reported, and i wont comment on the timeline before the media got a hold of it. Bottom line is that aside from his troubles this past winter, hamilton dug his own hole previously with management and some of his teammates before this winter. To say the team didnt support him completely ignores the fact he started in the playoffs (when he had already stepped on toes). Once the situation in the offseason developed, the angels did WHAT ANY BUSINESS would do and tried to get out from a bad investment. It didnt work...but for anyone to act like it was some sort of unheard of move to try and get out from a bad investment is ridiculous. The author would do well to mention hamiltons own role in the issue, and maybe point out (since hes stating the angels are the worst) the yankees with arod only a year ago...short term memory some people have....

Im not good at bumping old posts, so maybe someone can help me, but ive been pretty vocal going back several years about my feelings on sosh...about how its time to go, my dislike of him playing favorites, and about his (IMO) wrong philosophies on offense. So im not a scioscia appologist...but to all who state he actually runs the front office, please show me the scioscia type players on this team? Aybar...perez maybe...scioscia is a running game manager, one who likes to sacrafice and force the issue to pressure the other team. This team is station to station and hes been for awhile. Sure, hes on board with pujols (everyone would be), but scisocias always been a "put the ball in play, dont strike out, play good defense" manager. Look back on whos been brought in the last few years, and tell me its him vetoing moves. Heres a cookie...this team was very close to chasing jose reyes a few years back, which is an absolute scioscia move. Did we ever pitch an offer? No...and that was the winter dipoto took over. (And thank god we didnt)

Sosh is a dinosaur stuck in his ways. I would have preffered dipoto staying. But dipoto resigned...he wasnt fired.

Ill keep quiet about whats going on up the 5. That new book coming out backs something ive been hinting towards going back to last year, and have dropped vague hints about it several times. And the dodgers are about 3 years removed from the mccourt era...not to mention the cable fiasco they have going on. Perhaps the author should take that into account. Maybe he should mention the situation in philly, with the mets, (someone above already mentioned texas rightly), how far cinc has dropped off, etc etc. Maybe put those teams under the same microscope and see where this one ranks.

Bottom line is this whole narrative is based on overreaction by the writers doing what they get paid to do, make stories. Its no different than TMZ.

[Lou]

Once again,  red crushes it. 

 

 

"He had a hat " is one of my favorite AW  references of all time. 

[Lou]

... as does recon.

[Angel Oracle]

Agreed on Red and Recon.

For whatever venting I have done, this org is no where nears as bad as Philly, Miami, SD, Colorado, Arizona, and Cincy for starters.

The Halos do play in a brutal league where no real weaklings exist.

Arte hopefully is learning lifelong lessons on PR damage control, as well as on big contracts to aging superstars.

I still think that as successful as the Halos have been since 2002, that Scioscia has likely gone as far as he can go here. A fresh start after the season may just be what's best for business (sorry HHH) going forward.

[ten ocho recon scout]

The angels right now are in a bad spot in terms of media, partly (and growing) because they are under a spotlight. The irony is that the spotlight was created "by a spotlight". Its simply a case where people needed something to talk about, with nothing better they became it.

It started with hamilton. Had he been a no name guy with a small contract, a minor leaguer etc, no one would have jumped on the story. How would it have been written if he didnt turn himself in but rather had been caught.

Im not sure because i havent seen it, but i assume there was language written into the contract where they felt they had an out and tried to take it (but were overruled).

But the article in this thread talks about how they threw him under the bus...they gave him plenty of chances. Aside from him, they gave wells plenty of chances. This isnt a team that benches guys.

Anyway, going forward, they just have to watch what they say to the media. Its ridiculous, but i know it all to well from my own profession.

[stevestevens]

I have a strong inclination (maybe because there was a thread about it a couple weeks ago) that some on this board would say the Astros are a better run organization because they have been good for three months. The same people were making fun of the astros as one of the worst run organizations just one year ago.

[yk9001]

The Angels aren't even close to the worst run organization, for Pete's sake.

 

At the same time, all of these organization speed bumps that the Angels have hit the past few years illustrate the point that I've said all along:  Arte is no frigging business genius - too many of you lemmings bought that, hook, line and sinker.

 

In my line of work, I run into many people with nine figure wealth.  Trust me, a large percentage of them are not geniuses.  They are smart, hardworking people who were lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time.  That is far from being a genius.  I read smarter people on this message board many times.

[red321]

Huh? It's Dipoto's job to control the guy who owns the team and pays his salary? Go find the job description where it says that. There are legitimate arguments against Dipoto, and this is most certainly not one of them. So Arte meddles in the decisions of his baseball people, and then the baseball people are the ones to blame for it. Go figure. 

 

Seriously, imagine this conversation:

 

Arte: "Go sign Hamilton for me, I want him."

Dipoto: "No, he would be a bad investment."

Arte: "Do it or I'll fire you and find someone who will."

After a few iterations:

Dipoto: "Fine...."

 

In fact, this is probably how the conversation actually went. 

 

Yes...that is exactly his job. If his job is to put a winner on the field, and the owner is meddlesome, if he's the right person for the job he should be able to walk the owner through why it isn't a good idea and get him to buy in to his plan. That is what the job requires...you think another GM is suddenly not going to have to deal with Arte?

[AngelsFaninGA]

Yes...that is exactly his job. If his job is to put a winner on the field, and the owner is meddlesome, if he's the right person for the job he should be able to walk the owner through why it isn't a good idea and get him to buy in to his plan. That is what the job requires...you think another GM is suddenly not going to have to deal with Arte?

 

And I'm 100% certain Dipoto tried to talk Arte out of signing Hamilton, since no sane person would actually be in favor of it. Or do you think Dipoto was responsible for the signing, which goes against what we've heard? You're just making things up at this point so you can pile them on Dipoto after he's already gone. Let me guess, it was also Dipoto's fault we traded for Wells because he should have been there to talk Reagins out of it?

[red321]

At what point did I make anything up? I simply stated that was part of his job and if he couldn't do it than he wasn't the right fit for a job. You don't have to agree with me...you'd be wrong...but you don't have to. If you think Arte is part of the problem, but the GM's job is not to manage up, then how do you propose they deal with the problem?

 

I don't know if he tried to talk Arte out of Hamilton (you seem to be 100% certain...so is it really me pulling things out of my arse?)...but if he disagreed with bringing Hamilton on board and wasn't able to convince Arte it was a disaster waiting to happen...then it kind of validates what I was saying. Same thing goes for Wells and Reagins.

[Jay]

Not sure if the Angels are the worst organization.

 

However I do have a pretty good idea what is the worst Angels blog.

[red321]

Not sure if the Angels are the worst organization.

 

However I do have a pretty good idea what is the worst Angels blog.

 

Dude...not cool...Chuck reads these boards.

[Troll Daddy]

I don't agree with a lot of the organizational moves but we're still in great shape with Arte at the helm and Scioscia in the dugout.